Biden's gay marriage flip flop

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This is good info. It's pretty sad how recent a lot of those changes are. Thank you for this.



Me neither, but it's concerning when it's a politician who held backwards views while he/she was in power and able to enact laws and policies based on their beliefs. If Biden is all about gay marriage now, he should go back and have any policy against gay marriage he supported back then rolled back.

That would certainly be a nice gesture. But a Senator can not just single handedly roll back existing legislation. You would need new legislation, which he could whole heartedly endorse, to override it.

But- drilling down further, you will notice that it is often not legislation that is the issue. A lot of times legislation is kept sufficiently vague to infer maximum freedom and rights. As you can see from the case law you posted, more often than not, it is the narrow views of every day citizens, not the legislation itself, that are at odds with minorities and different sexual orientations. Which is why so often these matters are resolved in SCOTUS as opposed to Congress.
 
The standards are just hilarious:

Biden in 2000: I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, but I believe in rights and respect for gay persons
Biden in 2015: I believe in rights, respect, and marriage for gay persons.
Republicans: HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!

Trump in 2017: This tax bill is going to raise taxes on the wealthy; it will not be good for me, believe me.
Trump in 2017: *passes massive historic tax cut for the wealthy; it's very good for him; the national budget suffers*
Republicans: PATRIOT!!!!!!!
 
The big problem here is that Biden will have to give and ear to the Marxist far left nuts in the Democrat Party. If he is elected, no doubt he will cater to them. Flip flopping on issues is to be expected.
 
Is a change of mind over 20 years really a flip.flop?
What changed his mind?

The claim made by you all, and hack sausage posts regularly, is that republicans have shifted so far right. What is the republican "far right" position now that democrats didn't agree with 20 years ago? There isn't any.

The goal of everything is if you get an education, marry the person you have kids with, work and you'll have a happy life and nobody will attack you for it. Republicans haven't budged on that, democrats have.
 
Politicians evolve with the electorate and the times.
Check out some of the things Reagan said before he became president.
Check out Giuliani when he was mayor of NYC vs what he became when he tried to become a prominent national Republican.
Check out Lincoln’s evolution.

The world is changing.
Actually, it’s a good thing that all these people (besides Giuliani, who became a party shill) were willing to learn and listen to their constituents.

This is actually a bad thing, but it is to be expected with popular government.
 
What changed his mind?

The claim made by you all, and hack sausage posts regularly, is that republicans have shifted so far right. What is the republican "far right" position now that democrats didn't agree with 20 years ago? There isn't any.

Is that supposed to be me? You can tag. I don't bite. And you can try arguing like a man. That's not a claim that I've made, much less regularly. The fact that you feel the need to lie to make your point says something about the sincerity of it, IMO.

The intellectual collapse of the GOP is related more to isolation from non-partisan news sources than ideological immoderation (a big part of the splitting of the parties ideologically is just Southern conservatives leaving the Democratic Party for the GOP).
 
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Is that supposed to be me? You can tag. I don't bite. That's not a claim that I've made, much less regularly. The fact that you feel the need to lie to make your point says something about the sincerity of it, IMO.
Do you or don't you claim that republicans have shifted right rather than the left shifting left? What does further right even mean and which positions are currently republican platform positions that have gone further right?
 
Do you or don't you claim that republicans have shifted right rather than the left shifting left? What does further right even mean and which positions are currently republican platform positions that have gone further right?

Dude, I was just arguing with @Corn Pop Hombre the other day that Democrats have shifted left (he was making the ludicrous assertion that they've shifted right). If you look at DW-NOMINATE scores, you see a pretty big rightward move for Republicans from 2000-2008, but I'm not sure what the driver of that is (probably just sorting).

And I just told you that the intellectual collapse of the GOP isn't related to the left/right axis. It's more about the rejection of objective reality in favor of paranoid fantasies (which has long been an element of the right in America but used to be fringier).
 
Biden
Like Hillary and Obama, less than 20 years ago Biden opposed gay marriage.

https://www.washingtonblade.com/202...e-in-2006-clip-blasted-out-by-trump-campaign/

This thread isn't about whether or not the government should define marriage as including same-sex couples (personally I think the government should stay out of marriage altogether). The issue is that Democrats will argue for long-standing norms and then flip on them a few years later. Biden may say he opposes single-payer, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he doesn't support defunding the police, but if it become the mainstream position of his party, it's a safe bet he'll support it. Biden may say he opposes legalization of marijuana, but if 'decriminalizing drugs' becomes the mainstream position of his party, not only is it a safe bet he'll support it (I have no problem with legalizing marijuana) -- he'll support even bolder change, like putting "safe injection sites" in your neighborhoods.

Biden is a moderate . I would think that the right would be relieved that he has moderate views on things like gun control ,health care , immigration. I doubt that he will be pushing for any radical changes.
I suspect his administration will get us back on track with environmental issues and push to make some tweaks to healthcare.
 
lol, I don't like Biden at all but this isn't a flip-flop. He changed his opinion with information given to him. It's not a bad thing, America. Train how to do it yourself.

I don't even know if I'd go that far.

He changed his position as public opinion changed.

If Republican voters were 1000% in favor of their candidate sucking dicks tomorrow Mitch would be sucking dicks on youtube.

What Hillary alluded to about public/private positions was quite honest actually, and this is true for all politicians.
 
Dude, I was just arguing with @Corn Pop Hombre the other day that Democrats have shifted left (he was making the ludicrous assertion that they've shifted right). If you look at DW-NOMINATE scores, you see a pretty big rightward move for Republicans from 2000-2008, but I'm not sure what the driver of that is (probably just sorting).

And I just told you that the intellectual collapse of the GOP isn't related to the left/right axis. It's more about the rejection of objective reality in favor of paranoid fantasies (which has long been an element of the right in America but used to be fringier).
I understand the point about the rejection of objective reality for paranoid fantasies, but how is that not also tied with a move further to the right? The current leader of the GOP was just threatening to deploy the US military on American streets, citing the insurrection act (a clear fascist act). That same GOP leader is incarcerating children and asylum seekers in interment camps at the border, preventing them from seeking asylum in a clear violation of international law. These are all movements to the right so I'm not sure how you can say it isn't related to the left/right axis.
 
Dude, I was just arguing with @Corn Pop Hombre the other day that Democrats have shifted left (he was making the ludicrous assertion that they've shifted right). If you look at DW-NOMINATE scores, you see a pretty big rightward move for Republicans from 2000-2008, but I'm not sure what the driver of that is (probably just sorting).

And I just told you that the intellectual collapse of the GOP isn't related to the left/right axis. It's more about the rejection of objective reality in favor of paranoid fantasies (which has long been an element of the right in America but used to be fringier).
Well you're quite right if that was your stance with @Corn Pop Hombre, and he is certainly very far left and skews his "centrism" around his far left positions, but what are the "paranoid fantasies" entertained by the GOP? IMO, they've been a very poor opposition to a political revolution, but I assume you're talking about the politicians.
 
I understand the point about the rejection of objective reality for paranoid fantasies, but how is that not also tied with a move further to the right?

It's tied to a rejection of liberalism but not necessarily to a rightward move. We're seeing a different flavor of rightism dominate, but not a further-right party, except as it relates to sorting.

The current leader of the GOP was just threatening to deploy the US military on American streets, citing the insurrection act (a clear fascist act). That same GOP leader is incarcerating children and asylum seekers in interment camps at the border, preventing them from seeking asylum in a clear violation of international law. These are all movements to the right so I'm not sure how you can say it isn't related to the left/right axis.

There are rightist extremists in the party, as there have been for a while. The change in both parties over time appears to be primarily a result of sorting (Democrats used to have a big Southern conservative faction that started leaving a long time ago but the process has been continuing, and at the same time, liberal Republicans have been leaving their party). And immigration is probably one area where we have seen a clear rightward move by the GOP.
 
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I don't really understand why anybody would have an issue with gay marriage. 20 years ago isn't much of a difference. It was dumb to be against it then and it's dumb to be against it now.
Pandering to the wealthy evangelical base.
 
What leftwing positions, if any, do you think Biden won't support if they become mainstraim leftist positions? Single payer? Reparations? Safe injection sites?
Well firstly, I find it interesting that you made this thread about Biden, and not Trump’s flip-flop on abortion.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...p-march-for-life-antiabortion-rally?_amp=true
In fact, Trump flip-flops so often that one company actually sells Presidential Flip Flops to wear—each flip flop has a contradictory tweet on it. I am not making that up lol. But you didn’t start threads on all of those, are you only concerned when a democrat does it?https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...p-march-for-life-antiabortion-rally?_amp=true
As for Biden, I have a hard time seeing him support single payer, or even reparations. There’s a million ways to implement the 3 things you listed, but in theory I support all 3–so I wish he’d come out in support of them. Might make me excited to vote for him.
 
Well you're quite right if that was your stance with @Corn Pop Hombre, and he is certainly very far left and skews his "centrism" around his far left positions, but what are the "paranoid fantasies" entertained by the GOP? IMO, they've been a very poor opposition to a political revolution, but I assume you're talking about the politicians.

Over the past few years, Republicans have endorsed "deep-state" CTs, a belief that protesters are organized by Soros, climate change is a Chinese hoax, COVID is being systematically overstated, the MSM is out to get them in various ways, various crazy theories about Obama (spying on Trump, ordering the IRS to target conservatives), etc. Facts that are unfavorable to the Party are presumed to be "fake" and are dismissed. There was a recent thread on how Trump is trailing by a lot in the polls, and a good portion of the responses were just people saying that the polls were fake! There's a reflexive refusal to face reality that is dominating on the right in America these days.

I quoted myself a few times already but here it is again:

"California had a Republican senator named Tom Kuchel from '53-'69. He noted at one time that 10% of the letters coming into his office (6,000 a month!) were what he called "fright mail," mostly about two rumors that were common on the right at the time: Chinese commandos were training in Mexico for an invasion of the U.S. and 100,000 UN troops (16,000 of them African cannibals) were training in Georgia under the command of a Russia colonel for a UN martial-law takeover of the U.S."

That element has long been part of the right, but it's driving the bus now.
 
The standards are just hilarious:

Biden in 2000: I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, but I believe in rights and respect for gay persons
Biden in 2015: I believe in rights, respect, and marriage for gay persons.
Republicans: HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!

Trump in 2017: This tax bill is going to raise taxes on the wealthy; it will not be good for me, believe me.
Trump in 2017: *passes massive historic tax cut for the wealthy; it's very good for him; the national budget suffers*
Republicans: PATRIOT!!!!!!!
not hypocrisy in the slightest. Tax cuts and gay marriage are both good things
 
Over the past few years, Republicans have endorsed "deep-state" CTs, a belief that protesters are organized by Soros, climate change is a Chinese hoax, COVID is being systematically overstated, the MSM is out to get them in various ways, various crazy theories about Obama (spying on Trump, ordering the IRS to target conservatives), etc. Facts that are unfavorable to the Party are presumed to be "fake" and are dismissed. There was a recent thread on how Trump is trailing by a lot in the polls, and a good portion of the responses were just people saying that the polls were fake! There's a reflexive refusal to face reality that is dominating on the right in America these days.

I quoted myself a few times already but here it is again:

"California had a Republican senator named Tom Kuchel from '53-'69. He noted at one time that 10% of the letters coming into his office (6,000 a month!) were what he called "fright mail," mostly about two rumors that were common on the right at the time: Chinese commandos were training in Mexico for an invasion of the U.S. and 100,000 UN troops (16,000 of them African cannibals) were training in Georgia under the command of a Russia colonel for a UN martial-law takeover of the U.S."

That element has long been part of the right, but it's driving the bus now.
Those aren't "conspiracy theories" they're demonstrably true. The hub for the federal government and all of its permanent establishment is the most democrat area of the entire country. I think Trump got like 4% of the vote. I don't know if China was in charge, but our biggest state is now majority Mexican.

AFAIK, republicans have not moved off constitutional conservatism, they've sat there while the other side have tried to find workarounds. What is the "far right" position that republicans hold now that they didn't 20 years ago,
 
The creation of "gay marriage" was one of the biggest mistakes of the last decade. It opened the floodgates to all the problems that come with LGBT. Lawsuits on people who don't want to be a part of gay ceremonies, Men in the restroom with girls, men playing women's sports, Fallon Fox a male breaking a woman's skull in women's mma, 8 year olds on puberty blockers, confusion of and sexualization of kids under 10 years old, popularizing it and watching STD's increase among the population..... It was a slippery slope that brought on a mess that will not end well. And it's one of the reasons a full cultural marxist society cannot last a very long time before it falls

Let them bang bro.
 
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