best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

[-guerilla-]

Having a base is a good thing, because it gives you skills that are hard to develop otherwise. For example in BJJ - although takedowns and scrambling are part of the sport most BJJ players never get all that elite at them unless they have a wrestling base, or seek out wrestling to train in isolation. In Muai Thai, training boxing in isolation is common for the same reason.

The same is true in MMA, which is why the vast majority of MMA fighters train multiple disciplines in isolation with experts in those areas, whether or not they have a base outside of MMA. Having a base is great, so long as you migrate over to MMA before you get too old (generally late teens to early 20s, although there are exceptions).

Personally I find fighters with another sport base prior to MMA to be much more interesting than your garden variety general MMA guy.

Do you think we will ever reach a day in American where athletes train in MMA exclusively instead of converting from other styles?

America handles Sports very differently than countries like Brazil, Russia (soviet bloc) France and Japan

 

[sb413197]

Do you think we will ever reach a day in American where athletes train in MMA exclusively instead of converting from other styles?

America handles Sports very differently than countries like Brazil, Russia (soviet bloc) France and Japan

I think a lot of MMA fighters do come up through MMA gyms instead of another background at this point. Most of the MMA fighters I have known though train in other disciplines to round out their game - but then again if they didn't train BJJ separately I would never have met them. I think most of the high level MMA fighters still train BJJ separately, boxing, wrestling etc

I don't believe that we will ever reach a day where MMA fighters ONLY train MMA and don't train in sub-aspects of the game individually - the sport has too great a number of skills for that, compared to a more focused sport like Tae Kwon Do or boxing that specializes on one sub-aspect of a sub-division of mma (MMA = striking + takedowns + ground; boxing focuses on the punching aspect of striking alone, Tae Kwon Do on striking with the foot, and so on - those don't really benefit from cross-training much). Those specialized sports do have their own form of cross-training I suppose - boxers practicing on the speed bag vs the heavy bag or practicing bobbing/weaving for example - but they aren't different sports because it is so focused.

 

[blaseblah]

Do you think we will ever reach a day in American where athletes train in MMA exclusively instead of converting from other styles?

America handles Sports very differently than countries like Brazil, Russia (soviet bloc) France and Japan

Wrestling is the best base because it's free as part of a kids education. I don't know of any other martial art that offers the same opportunity to your average teenager. MMA gyms are expensive.

Also I don't see the U.S. allowing kids to train real full contact MMA.

 

[FloydMayweatherMMA]

Yeah...because they WANT Russian and Brazilian champions that use exotic styles nobody in the fanbase understands like Sambo and chute box

NOPE

they want greg hardy and broc

Oh right. Cause foreigners like Khabib, Conor and GSP hardly sell any ppv's.

Get back under your bridge.

 

[-guerilla-]

I think a lot of MMA fighters do come up through MMA gyms instead of another background at this point. Most of the MMA fighters I have known though train in other disciplines to round out their game - but then again if they didn't train BJJ separately I would never have met them. I think most of the high level MMA fighters still train BJJ separately, boxing, wrestling etc

I don't believe that we will ever reach a day where MMA fighters ONLY train MMA and don't train in sub-aspects of the game individually - the sport has too great a number of skills for that, compared to a more focused sport like Tae Kwon Do or boxing that specializes on one sub-aspect of a sub-division of mma (MMA = striking + takedowns + ground; boxing focuses on the punching aspect of striking alone, Tae Kwon Do on striking with the foot, and so on - those don't really benefit from cross-training much). Those specialized sports do have their own form of cross-training I suppose - boxers practicing on the speed bag vs the heavy bag or practicing bobbing/weaving for example - but they aren't different sports because it is so focused.

I think the main reason MMA athletes don't train in MMA exclusively is that there is nowhere for people to exclusively train MMA...

they literally don't have an option to

For-profit gymnasiums have all the incentive in the world to break up their classes into a dozen different marketable martial arts

If you just ran MMA Fight Club you wouldn't be able to make much money because your gym would run like a boxing gym... no special organizations to join 4 belt rank promotions and no special certified skill sets neatly packaged into sub-discipline after sub-discipline ad nauseam

just athletic training in its most basic form, not much of a profit model and much higher liability risk

 

[-guerilla-]

Wrestling is the best base because it's free as part of a kids education. I don't know of any other martial art that offers the same opportunity to your average teenager. MMA gyms are expensive.

Also I don't see the U.S. allowing kids to train real full contact MMA.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

 

[-guerilla-]

Oh right. Cause foreigners like Khabib, Conor and GSP hardly sell any ppv's.

Get back under your bridge.

The real money is swag and the most swag money is made in the trailer park and the ghetto

Everybody that was around in the old days knew that the Brazilian and Russian domination of MMA was a major hurdle for the sports Acceptance in the United States

American promotions want American champions

the last thing they want in the world is some Russian Muslim to beat the crap out of Captain America on Pay-per-view

Trolls don't use their real name/ have real verifiable backgrounds and they don't make points they just inflame

# school bell rings

 

[tyrone8934]

Whenever someone brings up the term proof they're being subjective

What is qualitative proof for you may not be the same for someone else and what is for them may not be for you

Yes, but we can argue about why something should or should not be considered proof. What you presented is not proof because it's just your speculation. Okay, so the best wrestlers don't come to MMA even though it pays. That doesn't mean they think they would suck at it. How do you know it's not for one of those other reasons I mentioned? Maybe they don't want brain damage; maybe they love wrestling more; maybe they don't want to learn striking defense; maybe they want to keep being Olympians; etc.

 

[-guerilla-]

Yes, but we can argue about why something should or should not be considered proof. What you presented is not proof because it's just your speculation. Okay, so the best wrestlers don't come to MMA even though it pays. That doesn't mean they think they would suck at it. How do you know it's not for one of those other reasons I mentioned? Maybe they don't want brain damage; maybe they love wrestling more; maybe they don't want to learn striking defense; maybe they want to keep being Olympians; etc.

Well the better wrestler is not winning as much in the UFC as they used to

Athletes are grappling back up to their feet and striking

The days of folkstyle wrestlers "holding people down" are ending

How come DC couldn't
"hold down" the less talented wrestlers jon jones and Stipe?

Talented elite wrestlers have put all their eggs in the
"wrestling basket" and know they lack the skills to win vs a well rounded athlete.

MMA is still not its own style yet (in America) because its just not profitable enough for the gym to soley focus on

 

[tyrone8934]

Well the better wrestler is not winning as much in the UFC as they used to

Athletes are grappling back up to their feet and striking

The days of folkstyle wrestlers "holding people down" are ending

How come DC couldn't
"hold down" the less talented wrestlers jon jones and Stipe?

Talented elite wrestlers have put all their eggs in the
"wrestling basket" and know they lack the skills to win vs a well rounded athlete.

MMA is still not its own style yet (in America) because its just not profitable enough for the gym to soley focus on

But I'm not saying wrestling is the best base for MMA. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. I'm just saying your reasoning is flawed. You keep saying...

if wrestling was the best base for MMA the best wrestlers would come over and get the big MMA paychecks

And I'm trying to get you to see that's not necessarily true.

There could be many reasons why wrestlers don't do MMA. Maybe they don't want brain damage; maybe they love wrestling more; maybe they don't want to learn striking defense; maybe they want to keep being Olympians; etc.

 

[-guerilla-]

But I'm not saying wrestling is the best base for MMA. Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. I'm just saying your reasoning is flawed. You keep saying...



And I'm trying to get you to see that's not necessarily true.

I have stated a few times that many combat athletes from France/ Soviet Bloc /Japan and countries that support Olympic athletes financially do get paid to train professionally however the MMA money is considerably greater and the MMA exposure is phenomenally greater

The main reason that athletes don't come over to MMA is because they know they're going to get beat and not make the big money because they understand that they will be poorly rounded compaired to the new generation

MMA is filled with decent wrestlers not the BEST wrestlers in the world

the very best wrestlers have trained their entire lives to specialize in the sport of wrestling and this is a disadvantage in MMA competition

If wrestling was truly the best base for MMA the best wrestler would win most of the time using wrestling techniques

I agree that many wrestlers prefer wrestling and don't want to strike...its very intimidating to try to "pick up" striking if you are foreign to it

If we took two identical clones and one of them trained for 15 years in wrestling and the other one trained in five years of wrestling and 5 years of Muay Thai and five years of Sambo the pure wrestler is going to lose because wrestling is not the best base for MMA

If a third clone trained in shooto exclusively he would beat the other two

There are a few different reasons accomplished wrestlers rarely transfer to MMA (fear of striking/love of wrestling) but the main one is the knolege that they will be beaten bucause they are specialists in wrestling and not well rounded MMA fighters

 

[-guerilla-]

Wrestlers marketability in MMA is well past its prime as is their fighting style

you can often times simply follow the money if you want to know the truth about something

Who are the greatest fighters in MMA???

Not a single one of these athletes have won a single medal in wrestling in their entire professional career

If wrestling was the best base for MMA that would certainly not be the case

https://gazettereview.com/2016/05/top-10-highest-paid-mma-fighters-ufc/

 

[-guerilla-]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFC_champions

Take a walk down memory lane and then compare that to the current UFC Champions

you will see that there is a major change the wrestling pedigrees of the championship brackets with cejudo literally being the only wrestling medalist at the top of the UFC chart

Heavyweight Stipe Miocic Aug 17, 2019 0
Light Heavyweight Jon Jones Dec 29, 2018 2
Middleweight Robert Whittaker Dec 7, 2017 0
Israel Adesanya (Interim Champion) Apr 13, 2019 0
Welterweight Kamaru Usman Mar 2, 2019 0
Lightweight Khabib Nurmagomedov Apr 7, 2018 2
Featherweight Max Holloway Jun 3, 2017 3
Bantamweight Henry Cejudo Jun 8, 2019 0

 

[H20]

TS. I will gladly come to a gym near you and run my favorite test on you. We will spar 1 minute. Before the round I will tell you which ten second window in that minute that I'm going to shoot on you. If you can time a knee on that shot you win, if not I win. You choose the amount of $. There is a reason that when it happens, its on every highlight reel for a decade. It doesn't happen often, so when it does it is big news. I don't even know why I'm responding to this garbage thread. The title is about wrestlers days being numbered, when really it was about everyone who trains in anything besides "MMA training".

 

[-guerilla-]

TS. I will gladly come to a gym near you and run my favorite test on you. We will spar 1 minute. Before the round I will tell you which ten second window in that minute that I'm going to shoot on you. If you can time a knee on that shot you win, if not I win. You choose the amount of $. There is a reason that when it happens, its on every highlight reel for a decade. It doesn't happen often, so when it does it is big news. I don't even know why I'm responding to this garbage thread. The title is about wrestlers days being numbered, when really it was about everyone who trains in anything besides "MMA training".

Im a very good wrestler/kickboxer so I hit most everybody trying to shoot on me with a knee or two, will it KO you?...unlikely.... but it will heavily reduce your commitment on shots

everybody that spars me gets hit by LOTS of knees

this thread is about how MMA is evolving and how wrestling as a style is dissipating in relevance

UFC 2018
Heavyweight Stipe Miocic Aug 17, 2019 0
Light Heavyweight Jon Jones Dec 29, 2018 2
Middleweight Robert Whittaker Dec 7, 2017 0
Israel Adesanya (Interim Champion) Apr 13, 2019 0
Welterweight Kamaru Usman Mar 2, 2019 0
Lightweight Khabib Nurmagomedov Apr 7, 2018 2
Featherweight Max Holloway Jun 3, 2017 3
Bantamweight Henry Cejudo Jun 8, 2019 0

 

[H20]

Im a very good wrestler/kickboxer so I hit most everybody trying to shoot on me with a knee or two, will it KO you?...unlikely.... but it will heavily reduce your commitment on shots

everybody that spars me gets hit by LOTS of knees

this thread is about how MMA is evolving and how wrestling as a style is dissipating in relevance

UFC 2018
Heavyweight Stipe Miocic Aug 17, 2019 0
Light Heavyweight Jon Jones Dec 29, 2018 2
Middleweight Robert Whittaker Dec 7, 2017 0
Israel Adesanya (Interim Champion) Apr 13, 2019 0
Welterweight Kamaru Usman Mar 2, 2019 0
Lightweight Khabib Nurmagomedov Apr 7, 2018 2
Featherweight Max Holloway Jun 3, 2017 3
Bantamweight Henry Cejudo Jun 8, 2019

I just don't understand what made you choose to make such a statement about wrestling if your point is about MMA evolving as a whole. MMA is evolving and fighters are much more complete nowadays than ever, but that would mean all styles are dissipating, and that training "MMA" is the only thing that wins now. 125 champ = wrestler first, 135 champ = wrestler first, 145.. not so much, 155 Khabib dominant wrestler, 170 usman wrestler first, 185 = whitaker (while people like to bring up his wrestling, he mostly strikes, but he makes you strike with him because he has good defensive wrestling), 205 wrestler first, HW = According to Stipe's wiki page he is an elite level wrestler. I don't know maybe you're not even arguing that wrestling isn't the best base and rather stating that no base is the best? Just be the best at fighting?

 

[tyrone8934]

The main reason that athletes don't come over to MMA is because they know they're going to get beat

I'm still waiting for you to show me evidence for this claim. As I've said many times, there are many possible reasons why the best wrestlers don't come to MMA. Maybe they don't want brain damage; maybe they love wrestling more; maybe they don't want to learn striking defense; maybe they want to keep being Olympians; etc.

 

[Shaddows]

The sport is evolving

UFC and other American mma promotions are doing everything in their power to advantage the American wrestler because they want "all american champs" so they can sell swag to the fake wrestling NASCAR fanboys [smart business]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

the most accomplished wrestlers are NEVER gonna be that good in mma and just get "fluffed" up for the slack jawed fanboys

These athletes have spent so many years learning to perfect their "sport grappling" they are ultra specialists

[just like SPORT BJJ guys]

profit minded gym owners push the fallacy that training in 5 different martial arts / sports = the ultimate mix for MMA

The fact IS specialists are getting pushed out of MMA

Wrestlers days are numbered

Just like the BJJ days of yore...lol

wonder when we will actually have MMA training in the USA

NOT

Muay thai + BJJ + wrestling = MMA

there are a lot of wrestlers who are simply holding on the the underbelly of MMA as their sport is slowly absorbed

desperately clinging on to MMA for relavance

the bad news is....

the ride is gonna get tougher!!!

I don't have a clue what you are rambling on, but you have been proven wrong by reality.
Wrestling is the glue who sets the tone where the fight takes place.

FInal proof: Most champions are wrestlers.

 

[-guerilla-]

I'm still waiting for you to show me evidence for this claim. As I've said many times, there are many possible reasons why the best wrestlers don't come to MMA. Maybe they don't want brain damage; maybe they love wrestling more; maybe they don't want to learn striking defense; maybe they want to keep being Olympians; etc.

as if MMA=brain damage

Until I find an elite wrestler who states hes afraid of getting beat in MMA looks like you win this round...LOL

 

[-guerilla-]

I don't have a clue what you are rambling on, but you have been proven wrong by reality.
Wrestling is the glue who sets the tone where the fight takes place.

FInal proof: Most champions are wrestlers.

THATS A CUTE KITTY CAT CARTOON...

Shaddows said:
FInal proof: Most champions are wrestlers

Guerilla said:
UFC 2018
Heavyweight Stipe Miocic Aug 17, 2019 0
Light Heavyweight Jon Jones Dec 29, 2018 2
Middleweight Robert Whittaker Dec 7, 2017 0
Israel Adesanya (Interim Champion) Apr 13, 2019 0
Welterweight Kamaru Usman Mar 2, 2019 0
Lightweight Khabib Nurmagomedov Apr 7, 2018 2
Featherweight Max Holloway Jun 3, 2017 3
Bantamweight Henry Cejudo Jun 8, 2019 0

only one of these guys IS an elite wrestler

the rest are average to good wrestlers as wrestling is a good base for MMA but not the best base for MMA