best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

[mkt]

How will wrestling not be the best base when it's likely the most important tool that can dictate the fight?

Don't expect a sensible reply. It's like you're arguing with a copy/paste disinformation bot. I'm done with T.S.

 

[-guerilla-]

Cormier (before him Stipe), Jones, Usman, Cejudo (2 weight classes). 5 out 8 belts held by Americans with wrestling creds and strong wrestling games. Who are these well-rounded Japanese fighters who can beat them?

They are roo small on average to compete at the larger weighclasses

Japanese are better fighters than Americans

They invented MMA

we aped it off them

UFC is not MMA

 

[-guerilla-]

Don't expect a sensible reply. It's like you're arguing with a copy/paste disinformation bot. I'm done with T.S.

I never expect a sensible reply from sherdog

Lol

Run away and train wrestling
Then come get BEAT by a MMA fighter

 

[eiyuu]

The sport is evolving

UFC and other American mma promotions are doing everything in their power to advantage the American wrestler because they want "all american champs" so they can sell swag to the fake wrestling NASCAR fanboys [smart business]

Wrestlers have lots of terrible habits that leave them vulnerable to good knee artists and the best submission guys

the most accomplished wrestlers are NEVER gonna be that good in mma and just get "fluffed" up for the slack jawed fanboys

These athletes have spent so many years learning to perfect their "sport grappling" they are ultra specialists

[just like SPORT BJJ guys]

profit minded gym owners push the fallacy that training in 5 different martial arts / sports = the ultimate mix for MMA

The fact IS specialists are getting pushed out of MMA

Wrestlers days are numbered

Just like the BJJ days of yore...lol

wonder when we will actually have MMA training in the USA

NOT

Muay thai + BJJ + wrestling = MMA

there are a lot of wrestlers who are simply holding on the the underbelly of MMA as their sport is slowly absorbed

desperately clinging on to MMA for relavance

the bad news is....

the ride is gonna get tougher!!!

Just being a good wrestler has never automatically translated into being good at MMA.

See Royce Alger, Kevin Jackson., Tommy Speers, etc.

But you have to consider the advantages that being a great wrestler gives you.

Many wrestlers started with they were 4-5 years old. Not just practicing, but actually competing against other wrestlers at that point.

I can't name many other combat sports or martial arts that have you competing one-on-one "full contact."

So you have all those many years of competition and honing your craft against many other fighters who didn't start seriously competing in their combat style/sport until maybe their teenage years.

Of course, they have to have a good fighting intellect and know what else they need to excel in MMA, as their wrestling ability will only take them so far.

 

[mkt]

They are roo small on average to compete at the larger weighclasses

Japanese are better fighters than Americans

They invented MMA

we aped it off them

UFC is not MMA

Pancrase (slap boxing) is not MMA. In fact, some of it was clearly staged. You can call it a precursor, but not the real thing. You can probably credit Brazilians with inventing MMA (vale tudo events, etc.) , but the UFC was the first global exposure. It was first termed NHB and morphed into MMA as more rules were added. So wrong again. /thread.

 

[-guerilla-]

Just being a good wrestler has never automatically translated into being good at MMA.

See Royce Alger, Kevin Jackson., Tommy Speers, etc.

But you have to consider the advantages that being a great wrestler gives you.

Many wrestlers started with they were 4-5 years old. Not just practicing, but actually competing against other wrestlers at that point.

I can't name many other combat sports or martial arts that have you competing one-on-one "full contact."

So you have all those many years of competition and honing your craft against many other fighters who didn't start seriously competing in their combat style/sport until maybe their teenage years.

Of course, they have to have a good fighting intellect and know what else they need to excel in MMA, as their wrestling ability will only take them so far.

OMG...

I CANT BELIEVE IT

AN INTELLIGENT REPLY

You understood what i was saying!!!

Awesome

Wrestling is the best base for MMA available for free in America

Shooto
pankration
combat sambo
Even giless BJJ is BETTER for MMA

Wrestlers have a "secret" to their success over superior styles of martial arts

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

 

[boyer]

If you coach wrestling, you're obviously doing a lot of kids a disservice. Your intellect is definitely not making up for your lack of passion.

 

[thobra]

Each country wants to promote domestic Champions

they don't give a damn what style they are

Brock Lesnar and greg hardy are probably the best example of this

UFC was just praying to get some crossover fans to buy that swag merchandising that fake wrestling and football produces

with a crossover Champion they could cash in

Sure, And in the UFC it is normally wrestlers, as they have a good tradition for wrestling.

 

[-guerilla-]

If you coach wrestling, you're obviously doing a lot of kids a disservice. Your intellect is definitely not making up for your lack of passion.

My lack of passion?

so if i were more "passionate" i would LIE and tell the kids that wrestling is the best base for MMA??!!

NOPE

im the cold hard coach that tells the kids the truth...

the cold hard painful truth!

 

[tramendous]

I watch all kinds of MMA but the UFC uses North American rules and you are in the UFC section of Sherdog and are talking about the UFC so what's the point of bringing up other rule sets?

Besides knees on the ground help wrestlers more than anyone else.

Arona isn't a wrestler but of all the BJJ specialists to come to MMA his wrestling was the best.

Id still rather have knees on the ground allowed vs wrestler. It gives them something to think about if they mess up a takedown.

 

[-guerilla-]

Sure, And in the UFC it is normally wrestlers, as they have a good tradition for wrestling.

YES 100% true!!!

despite the FACT that wrestling is not the best base for MMA!!

 

[-guerilla-]

Id still rather have knees on the ground allowed vs wrestler. It gives them something to think about if they mess up a takedown.

if knees and kicks to a grounded opponent helps wrestlers they would dominate soccerkick MMA ...

THEY DONT!!

anybody that says that has never fought a well rounded soccerkick MMA specialist

I TERRORIZE wrestlers with knees

especially when im down and they have cross side!

knees to the body and head!!

while they raise up to throw their knee you can escape the hold down!!

Remember...I AM A WRESTLER!!

 

[boyer]

My lack of passion?

so if i were more "passionate" i would LIE and tell the kids that wrestling is the best base for MMA??!!

NOPE

im the cold hard coach that tells the kids the truth...

the cold hard painful truth!

Where do you coach?

 

[-guerilla-]

Pancrase (slap boxing) is not MMA. In fact, some of it was clearly staged. You can call it a precursor, but not the real thing. You can probably credit Brazilians with inventing MMA (vale tudo events, etc.) , but the UFC was the first global exposure. It was first termed NHB and morphed into MMA as more rules were added. So wrong again. /thread.

[school bell sounds]

Ancient pankration was the 1st MMA
Shooto was started in 1984 as the 1st "modern mma"
pancrase was started the same time as the UFC and is a WAY better base than wrestling
vale tudo existed in Europe and American in the same traveling circus style in the same era

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooto

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancrase

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vale_tudo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_in_the_United_States

[school bell sounds]

 

[-guerilla-]

Where do you coach?

20+years at the highschool level

KY
FL
NC

you?

 

[thobra]

YES 100% true!!!

despite the FACT that wrestling is not the best base for MMA!!

I don’t know if it is the best base, but it seems to be a good base, as we have several Wrestlers with few other skills among the top guys. I am not much into the different orgs, but in UFC, One, old Pride, Bellator several Wrestlers had great success.

In orgs with fewer Wrestlers, they probably want to promote more exciting styles (in Asia they have a lot of people interested in striking sports, And in parts of europe, kickboxing is popular).

 

[boyer]

20+years at the highschool level

KY
FL
NC

you?

Not a head coach, I help out when I can mostly with club wrestling. I wish I had the time but I own a company in the oilfield, so I've got to make my money while I can. I would like to one day, but it's just something you have to be totally passionate about, since it can really impact a kid's future. I wrestled for two coaches and I really wish my dad didn't move me to another school, because I just think my second coach failed me. I had a pretty good amateur career to most but not really coming from my family and I still have that chip on my shoulder which drives me to this day.

 

[-guerilla-]

I don’t know if it is the best base, but it seems to be a good base, as we have several Wrestlers with few other skills among the top guys. I am not much into the different orgs, but in UFC, One, old Pride, Bellator several Wrestlers had great success.

In orgs with fewer Wrestlers, they probably want to promote more exciting styles (in Asia they have a lot of people interested in striking sports, And in parts of europe, kickboxing is popular).

All excellent points

Wrestling dominates American MMA for a series of very good reasons

Not because its the best style but WHO gets involved and HOW the sport is run

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-real-reason-wrestlers-dominate-the-ufc-american-mma.3959991/

 

[-guerilla-]

Not a head coach, I help out when I can mostly with club wrestling. I wish I had the time but I own a company in the oilfield, so I've got to make my money while I can. I would like to one day, but it's just something you have to be totally passionate about, since it can really impact a kid's future. I wrestled for two coaches and I really wish my dad didn't move me to another school, because I just think my second coach failed me. I had a pretty good amateur career to most but not really coming from my family and I still have that chip on my shoulder which drives me to this day.

I COMPLETELY understand

I think it's a major problem in our sport

(Crap coaches who have never even wrestled) because we are DESPERATE to even maintain a program

I took my old high school program over because if I didn't they were going to cancel it for lack of a coach

The fact is it's an unpopular sport and has very little respect in most of the nation

therefore you have to be a person that loves it to coach it cuz you sure aren't going to make any money or get much notoriety/respect

I quit after my first year of wrestling because my high school coach didn't know anything about the sport and was a total jerk preferring to smoke cigarettes and talk to his woman on the phone while we ran laps and learned wrestling from a book and the other kids, plus i had a world class kickboxing coach and was heavily into Judo/catch at my local community center

Take a spot as an assistant coach

You can come and go whenever you want and at least get some mat time

Tragety we dont have year round practice

I've always wished we'd switch to International style completely but at the very least we should run International through the offseason at every school with mats

Get back on the mat bro... the sport is in a desperate situation right now and needs all the help it can get!!!

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/american-scolastic-folkstyle-wrestling-a-dying-sport.3964681/

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Id still rather have knees on the ground allowed vs wrestler. It gives them something to think about if they mess up a takedown.

It makes bad takedowns more dangerous but it's better for wrestlers since they will be able to use them more often and for longer periods of time.