best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by -guerilla-, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. NILLI

    NILLI Brown Belt

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    HAHAHAHA. Ok this is the last message ill ever bother to read from you :D
    God dam you are slow...
     
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  2. linch

    linch Purple Belt

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    This doesn't make any sense.
    "Why don't wrestlers who beat Cormier, Jones, etc in wrestling come to mma and beat them in mma?" Not every wrestler wants to make a living by getting punched in the face.
    Then you proceed by saying that because they can't beat them in mma (as they did in pure wrestling), that automatically proves that wrestling is not the best base for mma.
    When people say that "wrestling is the best base for mma," that doesn't mean that the better pure wrestler would win an mma match. Mma is much more than just wrestling.
    I think wrestling is an important part of mma and always will be because it helps you decide where the fight will take place.
    Is it the best base? I don't really think there's such thing as the best base. Gsp's base was karate. He picked up wrestling later.
    Anderson silva, Aldo, were not wrestlers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  3. thobra

    thobra Black Belt

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    Because the promotion doesn’t want to promote Wrestlers, while the UFC mostly want to promote wrestlers.
     
  4. Grappler111

    Grappler111 Blue Belt

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    Wrestling Is the best base since first ufc edition 1-12. Wrestling won 6 edition, bjj only 3 and these tournament editions were under bjj governance...

    Wrestling is the best base for mma, numbers not opinions.
    A lot of Russian wrestlers have also Pankration (full UWW rules is like mma with protection) experience because it is a wrestling style at international level. Russian Pankration has a lot of athletes. This is a huge advantage. Nurmagomedov is an example.
    Champions like Cormier, Romero and many others started mma training after 30. Old athletes.
    Romero, an international freestyle wrestler is a knee artist, Masvidal has also wrestling background like Brown, his coach.
    Hendo won two belts in Pride Fc in two different weight classes. Numerically, wrestling was the best also with soccer kicks.
    Askren was undefeated in One Fc with soccer kicks rules but was defeated in UFC...
    In One FC you can see mediocre wrestlers defeat muay thay and sanda world champions.
     
  5. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    I have been coaching 20 years

    You cant MAKE somebody a good fighter

    You cant MAKE somebody tough

    You cant MAKE sombody compeditive

    You can only teach good fighters to fight smarter, give them opportunity to be compeditive by helping them take good matches and offer advice on how to act when they get hit.

    some take construction much better than others but at the end of the day there's this old redneck saying it's the size of the fight and the dog

    Sports dont create toughness they REVEAL it....

    It was always there

    Just like you cant teach a coward to fight!
     
  6. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    You guys are really getting this Theory mixed up

    if you have three identical clones and one of them trains
    10 years wrestling

    and one of them trains
    10 years pankration and one of them trains 10 years in shooto

    The shooto and pankration guys are going to beat the holy crap out of the wrestler every time

    wrestling is not the best base for MMA

    it's the best bass available for virtually free in the United States for MMA

    That's why you have the statistics you have in front of you

    it's the same way I can say swimming with great white sharks is safer than taking a bath

    because more people are killed taking a bath every year then eaten by great white sharks

    So statistically it is safer to swim with great white sharks then take a bath!
     
  7. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Each country wants to promote domestic Champions

    they don't give a damn what style they are

    Brock Lesnar and greg hardy are probably the best example of this

    UFC was just praying to get some crossover fans to buy that swag merchandising that fake wrestling and football produces

    with a crossover Champion they could cash in
     
  8. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    So you agree that wrestling is NOT the best base for MMA?

    Wrestlers dont make a living in their sport as there is virtually zero income potential for the sport of wrestling within the United States

    however

    the MMA people are making a crap ton of money

    so if wrestling was the best base for MMA all the wrestlers that beat Dan Cormier would just come over and take his MMA paycheck by using their superior wrestling to beat him in MMA just like they beat him in wrestling

    the punchline is wrestling is not the best base for MMA and it takes a lot more to make an MMA fighter

    so we should never ever ever say that wrestling is the best base for MMA

    but we do

    that's what this thread is about
     
  9. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Well if pankration and shooto were available free through the school systems of this nation you would see the vast majority of Champions coming from those Sports

    wrestling is not the best base for MMA in the world

    Its the best base available for free to tough athletes in America

    that's why it's number one
     
  10. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Dan Henderson
    Kevin Randleman
    Mark Coleman
    Mark Kerr also did great in soccer kick MMA

    but

    if you read the actual thread numbers you will find out that soccer kick MMA has a wildly different DOMINANT style than American MMA
     
  11. D 1 Wrestler

    D 1 Wrestler Look up to me

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    Nobody "thinks" it's the best it's a proven fact.
    Dude is a shitty coach in podunk bible belt states with shit for wrestling he doesn't experience elite wrestling. Hes coached kids for 16 years and has not produced a single college wrestler
     
  12. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    LoL
    what a drama queen

    I never said that BJJ and wrestling were BAD bases for MMA

    I said they weren't the BEST bases for MMA

    That's what a lot of people believe

    You weren't one of those guys paying $100 an hour to learn Judo groundwork from a Brazilian are you?
     
  13. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    D1 wrestler thinks wrestling is the best base for MMA

    better than pankration and shooto

    Wrestling jock Riders are just like any other single sport jock Rider

    they will try to turn any debate into a fanboy contest

    I haven't kept up with the thousands of kids that I coached

    for all I know one of them has won a World title somewhere

    You have probably been pinned by a few of them

    Do you compete in anything besides wrestling?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  14. ralek4grammy

    ralek4grammy Brown Belt

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    "They want..." - all they want is money. And pretty much everything for the casuals is more exciting than wrestling.

    UFC's wet dream is people that stand and bang.
     
  15. Ancient Warrior

    Ancient Warrior Gold Belt

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    Sorry, but I also think wrestling is probably the best base.

    It highlights core strength, balance, general opponent control and very result oriented training. No ideologies, no woo woo, just concrete results. And it’s competitors must display a high level work ethic and determination in order to be successful.

    It might not be good as a complete art because they don’t incorporate finishing holds and pin someone as a final objective, but as a base in itself, it’s probably the best.

    Drawing a comparison to mma success is not a reflection on wrestling imo. The most successful fighters have to have a completely new arsenal to compete in mma. Saying wrestling is a poor base because certain fighters have found defeat, is cherry picking facts.
     
  16. Givvee

    Givvee Purple Belt

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    one flying knee at the beginning of the fight lands on a wrestler with the worst striking defense and offense in all of mma and all of a sudden wrestling isn't a good base for mma hahahah.....idiots.
     
  17. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Rory McDonald is the epitome of this "pure MMA" fighter (no real specialist background). You see both the good and bad side of it in him. His well-roundedness helps him at times (outwrestling Lima, outstriking Maia) but also hurts him because he has no real specialty or "super powers." That's why he couldn't beat a 41-year Fitch (very solid college wrestling background) and has fits when he faces strikers with good TDD (prime Lawler and Wonderboy).

    It's a Joe Rogan myth that Rory was the first "pure MMA" fighter, though. Many of the late 90s/early 2000s fighters had no specialty and were generalists (Forrest Griffin, Rich Franklin, Heath Herring, Evan Tanner, etc.).

    But the T.S. is very biased and has a lot of holes in his thinking. That's been clear in other threads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  18. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Does kickboxing pay more than MMA? Boxing, sure, but I think the skills of kickboxers here are overrated--especially in the heavier divisions. We've seen them outstruck repeatedly in MMA fights.

    That said, someone who has a background in any good striking art (even karate with modifications and cross-training) has an edge over the "pure MMA" guy, holding everything else equal.
     
  19. ZipZito

    ZipZito Blue Belt

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    Wrestlers days will never be numbered in mma. It's all about being able to blend it all together and time things correctly.
     
  20. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    You make the most money off swag and you make the most swag when you have domestic champions

    they would prefer them to stand and bang that's for certain but if they had the choice between a Russian, Muslim or Mexican Striker
    VS
    an "All-American" wrestler

    they're going to be hoping the American to win every time
     

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