best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

[NILLI]

He didn't shoot for a takedown he froze up and panicked like most wrestlers do when a big knee is coming their way

HAHAHAHA. Ok this is the last message ill ever bother to read from you
God dam you are slow...

 

[linch]

This thread is about the fact that the very best wrestlers...
(the wrestlers that beat)
Usmam
Cejudo
John Jones
Daniel Cormier
Dan Henderson
Mark Coleman
Kevin Randleman
(In wrestling)
Can't come over and beat them in MMA

Since THEY are better wrestlers and wrestling is supposedly the best base for MMA they should be able to come over and use their superior wrestling to beat them in MMA...just like they did in wrestling

They dont

This doesn't make any sense.
"Why don't wrestlers who beat Cormier, Jones, etc in wrestling come to mma and beat them in mma?" Not every wrestler wants to make a living by getting punched in the face.
Then you proceed by saying that because they can't beat them in mma (as they did in pure wrestling), that automatically proves that wrestling is not the best base for mma.
When people say that "wrestling is the best base for mma," that doesn't mean that the better pure wrestler would win an mma match. Mma is much more than just wrestling.
I think wrestling is an important part of mma and always will be because it helps you decide where the fight will take place.
Is it the best base? I don't really think there's such thing as the best base. Gsp's base was karate. He picked up wrestling later.
Anderson silva, Aldo, were not wrestlers.

 

[thobra]

Then why dont they dominate SOCCERKICK MMA???

They are EXTREEMLY good at wrestling in japan and russian

Their wrestlers beat American wrestlers in WRESTLING

YET

Wrestlers don't dominate SOCCERKICK MMA

Something dosent add up?

Because the promotion doesn’t want to promote Wrestlers, while the UFC mostly want to promote wrestlers.

 

[Grappler111]

Hw champ - wrestler
Lhw champ - wrestler
Mw champ - wrestler
Ww champ - wrestler
Lw champ - wrestler
Bw champ - wrestler
Flw champ - wrestler

But yeah wrestling is dying

Wrestling Is the best base since first ufc edition 1-12. Wrestling won 6 edition, bjj only 3 and these tournament editions were under bjj governance...

Wrestling is the best base for mma, numbers not opinions.
A lot of Russian wrestlers have also Pankration (full UWW rules is like mma with protection) experience because it is a wrestling style at international level. Russian Pankration has a lot of athletes. This is a huge advantage. Nurmagomedov is an example.
Champions like Cormier, Romero and many others started mma training after 30. Old athletes.
Romero, an international freestyle wrestler is a knee artist, Masvidal has also wrestling background like Brown, his coach.
Hendo won two belts in Pride Fc in two different weight classes. Numerically, wrestling was the best also with soccer kicks.
Askren was undefeated in One Fc with soccer kicks rules but was defeated in UFC...
In One FC you can see mediocre wrestlers defeat muay thay and sanda world champions.

 

[-guerilla-]

I don’t agree, the training methods make guys training tough, and if they aren’t tough enough, they just quit

I have been coaching 20 years

You cant MAKE somebody a good fighter

You cant MAKE somebody tough

You cant MAKE sombody compeditive

You can only teach good fighters to fight smarter, give them opportunity to be compeditive by helping them take good matches and offer advice on how to act when they get hit.

some take construction much better than others but at the end of the day there's this old redneck saying it's the size of the fight and the dog

Sports dont create toughness they REVEAL it....

It was always there

Just like you cant teach a coward to fight!

 

[-guerilla-]

Wrestling Is the best base since first ufc edition 1-12. Wrestling won 6 edition, bjj only 3 and these tournament editions were under bjj governance...

Wrestling is the best base for mma, numbers not opinions.
A lot of Russian wrestlers have also Pankration (full UWW rules is like mma with protection) experience because it is a wrestling style at international level. Russian Pankration has a lot of athletes. This is a huge advantage. Nurmagomedov is an example.
Champions like Cormier, Romero and many others started mma training after 30. Old athletes.
Romero, an international freestyle wrestler is a knee artist, Masvidal has also wrestling background like Brown, his coach.
Hendo won two belts in Pride Fc in two different weight classes. Numerically, wrestling was the best also with soccer kicks.
Askren was undefeated in One Fc with soccer kicks rules but was defeated in UFC...
In One FC you can see mediocre wrestlers defeat muay thay and sanda world champions.

You guys are really getting this Theory mixed up

if you have three identical clones and one of them trains
10 years wrestling

and one of them trains
10 years pankration and one of them trains 10 years in shooto

The shooto and pankration guys are going to beat the holy crap out of the wrestler every time

wrestling is not the best base for MMA

it's the best bass available for virtually free in the United States for MMA

That's why you have the statistics you have in front of you

it's the same way I can say swimming with great white sharks is safer than taking a bath

because more people are killed taking a bath every year then eaten by great white sharks

So statistically it is safer to swim with great white sharks then take a bath!

 

[-guerilla-]

Because the promotion doesn’t want to promote Wrestlers, while the UFC mostly want to promote wrestlers.

Each country wants to promote domestic Champions

they don't give a damn what style they are

Brock Lesnar and greg hardy are probably the best example of this

UFC was just praying to get some crossover fans to buy that swag merchandising that fake wrestling and football produces

with a crossover Champion they could cash in

 

[-guerilla-]

This doesn't make any sense.
"Why don't wrestlers who beat Cormier, Jones, etc in wrestling come to mma and beat them in mma?" Not every wrestler wants to make a living by getting punched in the face.
Then you proceed by saying that because they can't beat them in mma (as they did in pure wrestling), that automatically proves that wrestling is not the best base for mma.
When people say that "wrestling is the best base for mma," that doesn't mean that the better pure wrestler would win an mma match. Mma is much more than just wrestling.
I think wrestling is an important part of mma and always will be because it helps you decide where the fight will take place.
Is it the best base? I don't really think there's such thing as the best base. Gsp's base was karate. He picked up wrestling later.
Anderson silva, Aldo, were not wrestlers.

So you agree that wrestling is NOT the best base for MMA?

Wrestlers dont make a living in their sport as there is virtually zero income potential for the sport of wrestling within the United States

however

the MMA people are making a crap ton of money

so if wrestling was the best base for MMA all the wrestlers that beat Dan Cormier would just come over and take his MMA paycheck by using their superior wrestling to beat him in MMA just like they beat him in wrestling

the punchline is wrestling is not the best base for MMA and it takes a lot more to make an MMA fighter

so we should never ever ever say that wrestling is the best base for MMA

but we do

that's what this thread is about

 

[-guerilla-]

I think so. Who is the best Shooto/Pankration fighter in MMA?

Well if pankration and shooto were available free through the school systems of this nation you would see the vast majority of Champions coming from those Sports

wrestling is not the best base for MMA in the world

Its the best base available for free to tough athletes in America

that's why it's number one

 

[-guerilla-]

Wasn't Askren dominating the so-called "soccerkick MMA" until recently? That's one example that works against the OP.

Dan Henderson
Kevin Randleman
Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr also did great in soccer kick MMA

but

if you read the actual thread numbers you will find out that soccer kick MMA has a wildly different DOMINANT style than American MMA

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Yeah all the good coaches thinks wrestling is the "best" !!!

Wrestling is on its high horse now but it will soon be replaced and then you will be eating crow just like all the BJJ guys that I crushed decades ago...

They reacted the exact same way

Nobody "thinks" it's the best it's a proven fact.

HAHAHAHA. Ok this is the last message ill ever bother to read from you
God dam you are slow...

Dude is a shitty coach in podunk bible belt states with shit for wrestling he doesn't experience elite wrestling. Hes coached kids for 16 years and has not produced a single college wrestler

 

[-guerilla-]

Wrestling and BJJ are bad bases for mma? I have been wrong this whole goddamn time. Why didn't you post when you changed the face of mma decades ago after killing BJJ?

LoL
what a drama queen

I never said that BJJ and wrestling were BAD bases for MMA

I said they weren't the BEST bases for MMA

That's what a lot of people believe

You weren't one of those guys paying $100 an hour to learn Judo groundwork from a Brazilian are you?

 

[-guerilla-]

Nobody "thinks" it's the best it's a proven fact.

Dude is a shitty coach in podunk bible belt states with shit for wrestling he doesn't experience elite wrestling. Hes coached kids for 16 years and has not produced a single college wrestler

D1 wrestler thinks wrestling is the best base for MMA

better than pankration and shooto

Wrestling jock Riders are just like any other single sport jock Rider

they will try to turn any debate into a fanboy contest

I haven't kept up with the thousands of kids that I coached

for all I know one of them has won a World title somewhere

You have probably been pinned by a few of them

Do you compete in anything besides wrestling?

 

[ralek4grammy]

"They want..." - all they want is money. And pretty much everything for the casuals is more exciting than wrestling.

UFC's wet dream is people that stand and bang.

 

[Ancient Warrior]

Sorry, but I also think wrestling is probably the best base.

It highlights core strength, balance, general opponent control and very result oriented training. No ideologies, no woo woo, just concrete results. And it’s competitors must display a high level work ethic and determination in order to be successful.

It might not be good as a complete art because they don’t incorporate finishing holds and pin someone as a final objective, but as a base in itself, it’s probably the best.

Drawing a comparison to mma success is not a reflection on wrestling imo. The most successful fighters have to have a completely new arsenal to compete in mma. Saying wrestling is a poor base because certain fighters have found defeat, is cherry picking facts.

 

[Givvee]

one flying knee at the beginning of the fight lands on a wrestler with the worst striking defense and offense in all of mma and all of a sudden wrestling isn't a good base for mma hahahah.....idiots.

 

[mkt]

Rory McDonald is the epitome of this "pure MMA" fighter (no real specialist background). You see both the good and bad side of it in him. His well-roundedness helps him at times (outwrestling Lima, outstriking Maia) but also hurts him because he has no real specialty or "super powers." That's why he couldn't beat a 41-year Fitch (very solid college wrestling background) and has fits when he faces strikers with good TDD (prime Lawler and Wonderboy).

It's a Joe Rogan myth that Rory was the first "pure MMA" fighter, though. Many of the late 90s/early 2000s fighters had no specialty and were generalists (Forrest Griffin, Rich Franklin, Heath Herring, Evan Tanner, etc.).

But the T.S. is very biased and has a lot of holes in his thinking. That's been clear in other threads.

 

[mkt]

As long as elite level striking sports exist (and pay more than MMA) wrestlers will always be the bulk of MMA fighters.

Does kickboxing pay more than MMA? Boxing, sure, but I think the skills of kickboxers here are overrated--especially in the heavier divisions. We've seen them outstruck repeatedly in MMA fights.

That said, someone who has a background in any good striking art (even karate with modifications and cross-training) has an edge over the "pure MMA" guy, holding everything else equal.

 

[ZipZito]

Wrestlers days will never be numbered in mma. It's all about being able to blend it all together and time things correctly.

 

[-guerilla-]

"They want..." - all they want is money. And pretty much everything for the casuals is more exciting than wrestling.

UFC's wet dream is people that stand and bang.

You make the most money off swag and you make the most swag when you have domestic champions

they would prefer them to stand and bang that's for certain but if they had the choice between a Russian, Muslim or Mexican Striker
VS
an "All-American" wrestler

they're going to be hoping the American to win every time