best wrestlers (in the world) are gonna get beat in Future UFC/MMA WRESTLING IS NOT BEST MMA BASE

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by -guerilla-, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    I never said wrestling was a poor base

    I said wrestling wasn't the best base

    Do you think wrestling is a better base than pankration and shooto?
     
  2. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Who said wrestling wasn't a good base for MMA??

    I said wrestling wasn't the best base for MMA?

    reading is fundamental
     
  3. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    So do you think wrestling is the best base for MMA?

    Better than shooto and pankration?

    You should really study the Japanese fighters to get a handle on this thread as they are better wrestlers than we are
    (per capita)

    Yet wrestling doesn't dominate their MMA
     
  4. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    And the best JMMA fighters who have come to UFC, Bellator, SF, etc. have NEVER dominated in those orgs. Not ever. Not in 25 years. Case closed.
     
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  5. ralek4grammy

    ralek4grammy Brown Belt

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    But why do we necessarily make the automatic connection between American and wrestler? While there is a higher chance of these two running in parallel, it's not mandatory.
     
  6. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    T.S. has said all this stuff before. Supposedly there's a huge conspiracy to keep the best Russian, Iranian, etc. wrestlers out of MMA because they'd beat all Americans. But why aren't we seeing them dominate outside the US in M-1, Fight Nights, OneFC, etc? I guarantee Dana or Coker would be interested in these guys if they were as dominant as he says. They've brought over plenty of other non-U.S. fighters.

    The bottom line is not many non-US wrestlers have interest in MMA, and those that have (outside Khabib) haven't had that much success--see the "Janitor" and other examples from early 2000s. There's no conspiracy.
     
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  7. ralek4grammy

    ralek4grammy Brown Belt

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    Ah, ok.
     
  8. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Wrestling as a style will always exist
    that is certain
    but you won't have the very best wrestlers coming over and dominating MMA...

    they would if wrestling was a superior style to all others

    The money difference is phenomenal

    at one point that payday would make it happen
     
  9. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    It's no conspiracy
    it's just smart business
    domestic Champions make the most money for the organization
    everybody knows that

    Nobody wants a bunch of foreign wrestlers to come over and take all their MMA paychecks

    Especially when they know that they beat your guys in wrestling in the Olympics,
    World cup And World championship

    The reason wrestlers don't dominate Japanese MMA is because Japanese MMA is wildly more well-rounded as their country invented the sport long before we picked up on it

    they don't have that skill Gap

    their martial arts athletes don't train at strip malls under gyms that sweat liability insurance

    You have to be a complete moron to think AMERICAN MMA PROMOTIONS would want some big Russian or Islamic guy to come over and knock out Brock Lesnar

    And they're smart enough to know that they can

    You have to be naive to think that American MMA promotions are looking for the world's greatest Fighters

    they're looking for the world's most promotable American champions

    The hardcore fact is Americans don't even dominate UFC

    America's largest Mixed Martial Arts Tournament

    https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/are-americans-falling-behind-in-mma.3894589/
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  10. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Oh yeah

    then how come we haven't gone over there and dominated their MMA?

    There's a big difference in our weight classes

    http://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/Average_Weight_of_Japanese_Men_2015
     
  11. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    I think American wrestlers broke the
    "BJJ curse" and ever since then the UFC has done everything they could to make sure that American wrestlers win their tournaments

    Trust me

    if we had shooto (instead of wrestling)
    in all the American public school systems it would be a no-contest situation...BJJ (or anybody else) would have never won a fight

    Shooto and pankratIon are 100times a better base for MMA

    Wrestling is all we had so it had to fill the gap!
     
  12. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Ever here of Pride? As for weight classes, DJ just went to an Asian org and won his first fight. And that's after losing his UFC title and being a bit old (32 is getting up in age for the lightest weight classes). As for the best UFC fighters not going to Japan and dominating the MMA, there's simply not been the incentive after Pride.
     
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  13. Huligani

    Huligani Number One Bullshit

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  14. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    you cant make someone a good fighter? what do you think people is when they walk in the room fresh with absolutely no sense of fighting? learn how to fight.

    I kind of see your point, but saying you cant teach someone how is wquite silly. You can make people good fighters, you can make them tougher and you can make someone competitive, you probably cant make a worll champ if the person isnt born with it in him. But the rest? of you course you can. Ive been coaching for 6 years, and some of my studentes couldnt do jack shit for their life. Many end up fighting mma (locally) and I can tell you those guys have lernt how to fight (along with training striking also)
     
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  15. boingyman

    boingyman If can, can. If no can, no can.

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    How will wrestling not be the best base when it's likely the most important tool that can dictate the fight?
     
  16. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    IMO we only guide fighters

    We cant create them

    Takes me about 5 min to determine if they can hang in competition

    Its true that some are more self reliant/tougher than others

    You can teach them techniques and fight theory but you cant make a coward a fighter
     
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  17. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    I have sited pride multiple times in this THREAD

    Japanese fighters are wildly more well rounded

    Americans don't dominate the UFC much less anybody else's tournaments

    https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/are-americans-falling-behind-in-mma.3894589/
     
  18. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    Its not the BEST

    its the best we HAVE

    Big difference

    2 clones

    One wrestling for 10 years

    One shooto/pankratIon/combat sambo 10 years

    Shooto/pankratIon/combat sambo wins EVERY TIME

    Wrestling is NOT THE BEST BASE for MMA
     
  19. mkt

    mkt Silver Belt

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    Cormier (before him Stipe), Jones, Usman, Cejudo (2 weight classes). 5 out 8 belts held by Americans with wrestling creds and strong wrestling games. Who are these well-rounded Japanese fighters who can beat them?
     
  20. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993 Yellow Card

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    So if those guys trained shooto instead of wrestling the SHOOTO GUYS would beat the wrestling version of themselves

    Wrestling is not the best base for MMA
     

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