News Bellator 273: Bader vs Moldavsky - January 29th 2022

[CorninginChristianburg]

Very impressed by Ngannou's grappling, though. Everyone calls me crazy but I think Moldavsky has an excellent chance at beating Gane. This next fight might help my point.

Yeah, when Ngannou hit that scissor sweep I got so excited and started yelling. We were watching a stream on a phone at this party and the girl next to me is like "what? what happened?" And I had a hard time explaining why I was excited.

The thing is, the UFC has built their upper divisions in such a way that, for the most part, you don't have to fight any wrestlers on your route to the title. In the past what that might allow is for a mediocre or an adequate grappler to make it up the rankings. But now, since it's such an inbred meta, you see fighters with very little TDD and probably blue belt level bjj in the upper echelons of the league. And it's by design, but this heavily favors veterans. Because a veteran with perhaps no serious wrestling background, but who has just been training wrestling and jiu jitsu longer will have the ability to take down and grind out a newer fighter who just doesn't have the experience.

So, I do think Moldavsky would beat Gane. And perhaps others too. Again, I don't dislike Gane. But I was watching the James Lynch podcast and Lynch was saying, "no, Gane wasn't exposed, he only got taken down 4 times"...which would make sense if he was getting back up but those were round ending takedowns", and "no, Gane wasn't exposed, Francis is just that strong and heavy, I mean imagine having Francis Ngannou on top of you." But what's worse than having a really heavy and strong guy on top of you is having a guy who is also pretty heavy and strong but with good technique on top of you. I also hate using the word "exposed." But there will be this narrative coming out of 270 that "oh, Francis is a world class grappler now" and...believe it or not there might be a couple guys who do it better... Francis basically took Gane down at will, with only one knee allegedly as well. You know, that is an actual problem.

But if you think of it in the context of the rest of the division. Gane outgrappled Don'Tale Mayes. And Mayes wrestled Josh Parisian. It's like...how did we get Josh Parisian in the league... Oh right, because he knocks out the bums on contender series.

 

[Thesnake101]

The fact that some people get excited about Gane fights speaks volumes about the UFC hype machine. I have always said that if Gane was in Bellator he would be considered boring AF, but alas fighting in the UFC has made "technical" and "smart". The guy is obviously talented but he is a boring point fighter...at HW none less.

I mean, you get a shit ton of push back on Gane even from some of the commentators (think back to the Rozenstruik fight). They're just trying to make do with a prospect same as Bellator does.

Fwiw I think both Moldavsky and Gane are on the same boat. I do like watching them fight because it's not your typical sloppy HW affair, but I get why some might not enjoy them. Now, a guy like Carlos Felipe I loathe watching, I just fast forward his fights.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

A Gane and Moldavsky fight would be different I think, I doubt Gane has to have the same level of respect for Valentin on the feet as he would for Ngannou.

Not that we'll ever likely find out.

 

[tehMoose]

A Gane and Moldavsky fight would be different I think, I doubt Gane has to have the same level of respect for Valentin on the feet as he would for Ngannou.

Not that we'll ever likely find out.

Moldavsky would have 0 respect for Gane as well. Doesn't hit hard and is clueless on the ground. Easy win

Moldavsky is also mobile, doesn't move in slow motion compared to the guys Gane fought. He's just a terrible matchup for him

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Moldavsky would have 0 respect for Gane as well. Doesn't hit hard and is clueless on the ground. Easy win

Moldavsky is also mobile, doesn't move in slow motion compared to the guys Gane fought. He's just a terrible matchup for him

Moldavsky isn't that mobile imo. Idk it'd be interesting.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

A Gane and Moldavsky fight would be different I think, I doubt Gane has to have the same level of respect for Valentin on the feet as he would for Ngannou.

Not that we'll ever likely find out.

See, people talk a lot about respect. But it always goes either way. You dont respect someone's striking so you can only focus on defending the takedown. You have to respect someone's takedowns so you drop your hands or don't kick. Or other respect theories. I mean sometimes they come into play, but I think most often people implement their skillsets and either get countered or don't.

Gane might be trying to defend the takedowns, but Moldavsky is obviously much more skilled at takedowns than Ngannou. And Gane might be focusing on defending, but if his hands are always low is that better? I tend to think theyll both be able to implement their game plans and one will prevail regardless of the psychological part.

 

[TorontoTO]

After last night I am inclined to believe that it is possible. But Bader doesnt inspire confidence in that department. Hopefully they stay on their fight most of teh fight.

Bader has no chin, so he could get cracked

Moldavsky isn't that mobile imo. Idk it'd be interesting.

Its either Gane winning via point fighting for x amount off rounds or Moldavsky tanking damage to get the takedown

 

[careto]

Yeah, when Ngannou hit that scissor sweep I got so excited and started yelling. We were watching a stream on a phone at this party and the girl next to me is like "what? what happened?" And I had a hard time explaining why I was excited.

The thing is, the UFC has built their upper divisions in such a way that, for the most part, you don't have to fight any wrestlers on your route to the title. In the past what that might allow is for a mediocre or an adequate grappler to make it up the rankings. But now, since it's such an inbred meta, you see fighters with very little TDD and probably blue belt level bjj in the upper echelons of the league. And it's by design, but this heavily favors veterans. Because a veteran with perhaps no serious wrestling background, but who has just been training wrestling and jiu jitsu longer will have the ability to take down and grind out a newer fighter who just doesn't have the experience.

So, I do think Moldavsky would beat Gane. And perhaps others too. Again, I don't dislike Gane. But I was watching the James Lynch podcast and Lynch was saying, "no, Gane wasn't exposed, he only got taken down 4 times"...which would make sense if he was getting back up but those were round ending takedowns", and "no, Gane wasn't exposed, Francis is just that strong and heavy, I mean imagine having Francis Ngannou on top of you." But what's worse than having a really heavy and strong guy on top of you is having a guy who is also pretty heavy and strong but with good technique on top of you. I also hate using the word "exposed." But there will be this narrative coming out of 270 that "oh, Francis is a world class grappler now" and...believe it or not there might be a couple guys who do it better... Francis basically took Gane down at will, with only one knee allegedly as well. You know, that is an actual problem.

But if you think of it in the context of the rest of the division. Gane outgrappled Don'Tale Mayes. And Mayes wrestled Josh Parisian. It's like...how did we get Josh Parisian in the league... Oh right, because he knocks out the bums on contender series.

Gane is so overhyped I find it even ridiculous. The dude submitted some C level fighters and is apparently some ground wizard. Many were calling Gane to submit Ngannou or dominate him in the ground. That rolling knee bar "attempt" from turtle was utterly embarrassing. In the next round, he proceeded to just grab an ankle and pull it without controlling Ngannou's knee. If my bjj coach saw me do that shit he would make me pay in training next class. Oh and in the 5th round he got scissor sweeped by a guy who has never grappled before...

Again, Im not saying he is a bad fighter he is just very overhyped because the UFC wanted him as their poster boy. He is also very boring to watch, because he is too cautious.

 

[careto]

I mean, you get a shit ton of push back on Gane even from some of the commentators (think back to the Rozenstruik fight). They're just trying to make do with a prospect same as Bellator does.

Fwiw I think both Moldavsky and Gane are on the same boat. I do like watching them fight because it's not your typical sloppy HW affair, but I get why some might not enjoy them. Now, a guy like Carlos Felipe I loathe watching, I just fast forward his fights.

Gane went from boring to "special type of athelete" in a matter of months and right after Ngannou defied the UFC. After the Jairzinho and Volkov fights even Dana shat in him for those performances. However, after Ngannou defied the UFC they switched the narrative and now was all of the sudden their posterboy. It felt very obvious that they were using him to shit on Ngannou but the casuals bought the hype.

He is still young and I hope he turns things around after this fight. Increase his volume, take some risks, get some killer instinct in there. Same thing for Moldavsky, he needs to make the same adjustments and hopefully the Johnson fight is a turning point.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Gane is so overhyped I find it even ridiculous. The dude submitted some C level fighters and is apparently some ground wizard. Many were calling Gane to submit Ngannou or dominate him in the ground. That rolling knee bar "attempt" from turtle was utterly embarrassing. In the next round, he proceeded to just grab an ankle and pull it without controlling Ngannou's knee. If my bjj coach saw me do that shit he would make me pay in training next class. Oh and in the 5th round he got scissor sweeped by a guy who has never grappled before...

Again, Im not saying he is a bad fighter he is just very overhyped because the UFC wanted him as their poster boy. He is also very boring to watch, because he is too cautious.

I think basically this, it used to be that people would say "the UFC is not a developmental league." "Once you get to the UFC you gotta be ready to fight the best of the best." Stuff like that. And it's just not true anymore. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Once you get into the UFC you'll get a good number of developmental fights with regional level fighters where you can build your skills and build some reel. I mean they're signing guys with 3 fights, 4 fights, like Carlos Ulberg, Mike Mathetha, these guys aren't UFC ready. Even Alex Periera who came in 3-1. They're meant to fight cans and the build up highlight reel and then be promotable. People buy it too, some delulu on the Heavies was arguing to me that Pereira was 2 fights from the title. He was convinced that after one more win, he'll fight a top 5 guy. Because he beat Andreas Michaelidis. The guy who lost to Modestas Bukauskas who no longer is in the league, and beat KB Bhullar who also no longer is in the league.

And like I recognize that even for the fighters I like. Like, I don't think Saimon Oliveira is "UFC caliber" or whatever UFC caliber used to be. So when Tony Gravely beats him, I'm not happy I'm relieved. But it's just, the UFC is not a development league, but they have a development league under their umbrella now, and they use it to hype up fighters.

 

[MMALOPEZ]

Gane is so overhyped I find it even ridiculous. The dude submitted some C level fighters and is apparently some ground wizard. Many were calling Gane to submit Ngannou or dominate him in the ground. That rolling knee bar "attempt" from turtle was utterly embarrassing. In the next round, he proceeded to just grab an ankle and pull it without controlling Ngannou's knee. If my bjj coach saw me do that shit he would make me pay in training next class. Oh and in the 5th round he got scissor sweeped by a guy who has never grappled before...

Again, Im not saying he is a bad fighter he is just very overhyped because the UFC wanted him as their poster boy. He is also very boring to watch, because he is too cautious.

I agree…. He was overhyped AF….. Stipe will destroy him … he basically lost to a non grappler with no gas tank and a bad knee last night

 

[careto]

I agree…. He was overhyped AF….. Stipe will destroy him … he basically lost to a non grappler with no gas tank and a bad knee last night

I agree, Stipe is a worse match up than Ngannou, basically because Stipe can actually wrestle, is a goos striker, and isnt a big sloppy HW.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

I agree…. He was overhyped AF….. Stipe will destroy him … he basically lost to a non grappler with no gas tank and a bad knee last night

I disagree. I picked Stipe in the first fight when he was an underdog. I picked Francis in the second fight. I love Stipe, I've been a fan of him for as long as I've watched MMA. I want myself to be wrong more than anyone else. But wrestling is the hardest discipline on the body over time. Fighters develop knee problems, joint problems, all sorts of health issues. At 40 year old, he is not a wrestler, not at least at this level of competition.

 

[MMALOPEZ]

I disagree. I picked Stipe in the first fight when he was an underdog. I picked Francis in the second fight. I love Stipe, I've been a fan of him for as long as I've watched MMA. I want myself to be wrong more than anyone else. But wrestling is the hardest discipline on the body over time. Fighters develop knee problems, joint problems, all sorts of health issues. At 40 year old, he is not a wrestler, not at least at this level of competition.

We agree to disagree my friend … but Gane showed the world last night he is not the top dog the company was selling… I’ll bet good $$$$ on stipe if they ever fight against each other

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

We agree to disagree my friend … but Gane showed the world last night he is not the top dog the company was selling… I’ll bet good $$$$ on stipe if they ever fight against each other

Sure. I agree that the company oversold him. I wouldn't pick him over say Blaydes or Jones or Moldavsky. But I think Stipe should retire, I've felt he should retire, it pains me to think of what he may yet suffer if he insists that he's still got it.

 

[careto]

Sure. I agree that the company oversold him. I wouldn't pick him over say Blaydes or Jones or Moldavsky. But I think Stipe should retire, I've felt he should retire, it pains me to think of what he may yet suffer if he insists that he's still got it.

I dont think he is shot or anything, actually without Ngannou or Jones in the picture he has a good chance at getting a titleshot again soon.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think basically this, it used to be that people would say "the UFC is not a developmental league." "Once you get to the UFC you gotta be ready to fight the best of the best." Stuff like that. And it's just not true anymore. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Once you get into the UFC you'll get a good number of developmental fights with regional level fighters where you can build your skills and build some reel. I mean they're signing guys with 3 fights, 4 fights, like Carlos Ulberg, Mike Mathetha, these guys aren't UFC ready. Even Alex Periera who came in 3-1. They're meant to fight cans and the build up highlight reel and then be promotable. People buy it too, some delulu on the Heavies was arguing to me that Pereira was 2 fights from the title. He was convinced that after one more win, he'll fight a top 5 guy. Because he beat Andreas Michaelidis. The guy who lost to Modestas Bukauskas who no longer is in the league, and beat KB Bhullar who also no longer is in the league.

And like I recognize that even for the fighters I like. Like, I don't think Saimon Oliveira is "UFC caliber" or whatever UFC caliber used to be. So when Tony Gravely beats him, I'm not happy I'm relieved. But it's just, the UFC is not a development league, but they have a development league under their umbrella now, and they use it to hype up fighters.

I don't think that's changed really tbh, UFC has always had some pretty bad fighters on the roster.

When I use the term UFC standard what I mean by it is getting through that first contract and sticking around.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

I don't think that's changed really tbh, UFC has always had some pretty bad fighters on the roster.

When I use the term UFC standard what I mean by it is getting through that first contract and sticking around.

Sure. But I think that's an increasingly low bar. I think the bad fighters are increasingly in quantity. To the point that you could argue, there are always echelons of fighters, but I'd argue there's an entirely new echelon of fighters who only fight other terrible fighters and get past that first contract by say going 50-50 against other fighters in that same echelon. You can think of it as rings, and for example if there used to be 3, I think there are now 4, or something like that.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Sure. But I think that's an increasingly low bar. I think the bad fighters are increasingly in quantity. To the point that you could argue, there are always echelons of fighters, but I'd argue there's an entirely new echelon of fighters who only fight other terrible fighters and get past that first contract by say going 50-50 against other fighters in that same echelon. You can think of it as rings, and for example if there used to be 3, I think there are now 4, or something like that.

Idk I think since they moved to doing 42 shows a year the roster has been pretty much the same quality tbh. The idea of the UFC being a place that has all the best fighters was always kind of a myth.

 

[Thesnake101]

Gane went from boring to "special type of athelete" in a matter of months and right after Ngannou defied the UFC. After the Jairzinho and Volkov fights even Dana shat in him for those performances. However, after Ngannou defied the UFC they switched the narrative and now was all of the sudden their posterboy. It felt very obvious that they were using him to shit on Ngannou but the casuals bought the hype.

He is still young and I hope he turns things around after this fight. Increase his volume, take some risks, get some killer instinct in there. Same thing for Moldavsky, he needs to make the same adjustments and hopefully the Johnson fight is a turning point.

I doubt either one will change tbh, they're young, but, in terms of their gameplanning, they seem like finished products. Moldavsky already had an aggressive showing against a wrestler before in Ernest James, but he quickly went back to coasting right after it.

Sure. But I think that's an increasingly low bar. I think the bad fighters are increasingly in quantity. To the point that you could argue, there are always echelons of fighters, but I'd argue there's an entirely new echelon of fighters who only fight other terrible fighters and get past that first contract by say going 50-50 against other fighters in that same echelon. You can think of it as rings, and for example if there used to be 3, I think there are now 4, or something like that.

That's just due to the oversaturation they have when it comes to events. Pretty much been that way since they stepped foot on the gas in 2014, the current batch of shitty guys are just fresh on the mind.

I don't begrudge it since ever so often you'll get some people that turn a corner. Dober and Magny are two examples, if not for the UFC's consistent schedule they would have probably been cut when they went 1-3 and 1-2 respectively.

Especially Drew with that sub-minute loss to Escudero.