An Objective take at ''GOAT'' debate

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Bodil, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    32,766
    Likes Received:
    49,621
    Location:
    The Slums of Shaolin
    No, the post I made initially was plenty on topic. And that you're wanting to debate who is the GOAT proves that point of the post. TS is saying it isn't debatable, and his own thread on it proves that theory wrong, which was the exact point of my post. Then you tried to tell me that my personal criteria for greatness is wrong. There isn't a set definition of greatness. It is subjective, and that is yet again, the point of my initial post.
     
  2. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    880
    15 title fights in the UFC. You are wrong. Cute attempt though.
     
  3. Rum

    Rum Champion of Champions

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2015
    Messages:
    8,512
    Likes Received:
    11,609
    Location:
    The Spirit World
    Oh, you're an counting interim belt and the "UCC Welterweight Championship" in his "16-2"?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ifindgifsforjackslack

    ifindgifsforjackslack Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Location:
    Jack Slacks Basement
    Now I feel like a loser. Could have let me know before I read it...
     
    Canned Tuna likes this.
  5. dildos

    dildos Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    18,462
    Likes Received:
    33,223
    Location:
    Sydney
    LMAO

    this post needs too be seen again. i LOVE how pathetic @Bodil is.
     
  6. Canned Tuna

    Canned Tuna Red Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    9,402
    Likes Received:
    4,753
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I disagree with your assertion that the hypothetical open weight tournament could not be a good way to determine the GOAT. If you specify that you are talking about P4P, then sure, but if you are just talking about the 'best fighter ever' I'd argue that size is a natural advantage in fighting and shouldn't be discounted. The heavier man is the better fighter, even if he isn't more skilled. You don't adjust for size when talking about the best basketball players because height is an advantage.
     
  7. Check-Hook

    Check-Hook Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    652
    Having PED's as a criteria is not objective lol... You can't objectively say, that if FighterX wasn't on PED's he would've been less dominant. There's nothing wrong in saying it, but you can't know for sure, it's your subjective opinion. Is it likely? Yes. But you don't know for sure.

    Also, what if some of the other guys just weren't caught? Not accusing anyone of anything here, nor am I suggesting anything, but Fedor fought in Pride fx. We have no idea if he ever roided. I'm pretty sure GSP, Aldo, MM and DC never did, but hey, you can't know.

    And just in general... This is still subjective, even if you remove the PED issues. You picked the criteria. What if my criteria for being GOAT is having taken the belt from Bisping? Does that make GSP the GOAT? No. What if my criteria was being a 6'4 black man with "Philippians 4:13" tatted across your chest? Does that make Bones the GOAT? No. Determining who is the greatest of all time will never be objective.

    Another thing. The open weight tournament can't be ruled out. The only reason we have weight classes is to give smaller people a chance at competing. Matt Mitrione is objectively (if going by the premise that he beat MM every time) at better fighter than MM. He is not necessarily more skilled, but he holds the physical advantages over MM. Height and size are advantages bestowed upon you by nature. Not any different from you having a high IQ or something like that (don't get me wrong, I like that w have weightclasses, and in a GOAT debate I put MM over Mitrione. But OBJECTIVELY, Mitrione is a better fighter than MM because he beats him).
     
  8. 0-1

    0-1 Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Location:
    a particular place or position.
    GOAT is subjective just lol when will people accept this and stop making threads arguing it, Do people honestly believe they can argue enough to convince somebody else their idea of the goat is the correct one? Its like trying to argue to a Muslim that Christianity is the correct religion or vice versa.
     
  9. chinarice

    chinarice Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19,337
    Likes Received:
    23,201
    Location:
    Sometimes I like to fart in the tub
    TS makes criteria that shows GSP as #1.

    I am gonna have to agree! lol
     
  10. Number 8

    Number 8 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    316
    Location:
    Zapadni Kolodvor Zagreb
    Objective... On sherdog... Hahaaa

    Really laughed, thanks.
     
  11. Only Here for Attachments

    Only Here for Attachments Free from yellow thanks to my state's congress

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2016
    Messages:
    14,889
    Likes Received:
    36,514
    I think favorite band and favorite movie are crucial aspects to the GOAT conversation. You can learn a lot about a man by the answers to those questions :)
     
    Check-Hook and Number 8 like this.
  12. kickpuncher

    kickpuncher Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2018
    Messages:
    659
    Likes Received:
    402
    I think you also have to consider certain fighters leaving the sport, GSP, once he had his toughest fight (big rig). If GSP would come back to WW now, he would get murked. Also GSP ducked A Silva for many years, coming up with excuse after excuse, but then as soon as MW gets the weakest champ it has had in a super long time, only then does GSP want to go up to MW and fight. Also Bisping was landing pretty decent on GSP, so the top contenders at MW would definitely flat line him.

    I think guys like A Silva and Fedor (though bellator is lacking) are at least fighting guys and not ducking like GSP. A Silva went up to LHW many times and even most recently went to fight Daniel C. GSP would never fucking do something like that.
     
  13. JRubin

    JRubin Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    221
    I get it, you're just repeating yourself.

    You dont care whose the better fighter, and being the best fighter isnt what is important to you.

    What I'm telling you, even though you refuse to accept it, is that the central argument in these GOAT threads is who is the better fighter.

    Under your logic, GSP still > Fedor, since for you it's a popularity contest, and your only claim is that Fedor was more entertaining.

    Yet more fans tuned into to watch GSP fight than the last emperor, he entertained more fans while not needing to sacrifice his talents. TRUE GOAT.
     
  14. Russie

    Russie Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    5,357
    Likes Received:
    925
    Location:
    New Orleans
    It's a no win debate when it comes to GOAT. Yet lots love to jump in and take a crack at it.
     
  15. Shadowthrone

    Shadowthrone PIECE OF SHIT Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    8,463
    Location:
    Shadow Realm
    How many points is this

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Perrichet

    Perrichet Tinpot Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    22,056
    Likes Received:
    7,965
    Location:
    London
    Anderson being mentioned in GOAT debates is funny. How can a GOAT have almost double digit losses. Makes no sense.

    Add in PED’s, lack of ability compared to the others and his ducking of Jones/Shogun while calling out WW’s and FW’s it’s a joke
     
  17. youllneverwalkalone

    youllneverwalkalone Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    2,077
    Thank your effort, TS. I appreciate objectivity for once. I don't think you can be completely objective (your ranking system assumes an equal weighting of all aspects, which is not how sherdoggers approach the GOAT topic), but it is better than baseless claim.

    For me, GOAT debate has no meaning tbh. MMA is too young and is not a sport to being with. People are not on equal footing when it comes to opportunities etc. You can discuss who has the most impact or notoriety but other than that it's pure fandom.
     
  18. 45ACP

    45ACP I'll Be Back Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,141
    Likes Received:
    3,936
    Location:
    a stupid city
    I read it all :(
     
  19. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    880
    I honestly just took as many criteria as possible just so people didn't think I was biased. I even included PED cheats which should automatically be excluded.

    Literally any way you look at it, GSP is #1. The only criticism people have against GSP is that he didn't finish fights, but that is easily countered by the fact that he faced the toughest competition in all of MMA history.

    This is one of MMA's biggest myth, that GSP ''ducked''. The guy has the most top 5 wins and most top 10 wins in the history of the sport. He literally won the belt in the weight class above, something Silva could never do. Why didn't Silva fight Jones? Why didn't Jones fight at HW? Why didn't Fedor fight in the UFC? Ducks.

    I only mentioned him because Anderoid fans would cry bias. I also think that anyone with 9 losses who also abused PEDs shouldn't be on any list lol
     
    Perrichet likes this.
  20. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    880
    I disagree with pure fandom. For example, in hockey, you can look at the goaltender with the most wins, best win %, best stop %, most stanley cup wins, etc. Those are stats and they don't lie. Most MMA fans seem to be highly estrogen fueled and base their GOAT rankings on ''but this fighter is more entertaining!'' or ''but I feel like this fighter is better (despite his 10 losses)'', etc. There's no such thing as ''impact'' or entertainment in a GOAT debate, it's purely stats based and GSP wins that by a landslide.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.