An Objective take at ''GOAT'' debate

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Bodil, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

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    First off, some people consider ''GOAT'' as someone who would win an open weight tournament during their ''prime'' (whatever that means), I believe that to be wrong simply because a guy like Mitrione isn't better than MM, yet would win a fight 99% of the time.

    The same names are brought up again and again: MM, DC, GSP, Jones, Silva, Fedor and Aldo So we will go with those 7. Anyone who believes anyone other than those 7 deserves GOAT status should not be taken seriously about anything MMA-related.

    Now the most obvious part is out of the way, let's look at what makes someone resume ''GOAT'' worthy:

    1) Finish %
    2) Win %
    3) Title reign (defenses, multiple titles)
    4) Quality of opponents
    5) Use of PEDs

    FINISH % (based on the number of finishes divided by number of wins)
    1a) Silva - 76%
    1b) Fedor - 76%
    3) Jones - 70%
    4) DC - 68%
    5) Aldo - 64%
    6) MM - 59%
    7) GSP - 54%

    WIN % (based on the numbers of wins divided by total fights)
    1) GSP - 93%
    2a) Jones - 92%
    2b) DC - 92%
    4) Aldo - 88%
    5) MM - 87%
    6) Fedor 84%
    7) Silva - 79%

    Tile Reign (based on title wins in dif weight classes, total number of defenses, consecutive defenses, multiple weight titles)
    1) GSP (9 WW defenses, MW champ, 16-2 in title fights)
    2) DC (3 LHW defenses, 1 HW defense, LHW and HW champ 7-1-1 in title fights)
    3) MM (11 defenses, 13-2-1 in title fights)
    4) Silva (10 defenses, 11-2 in title fights)
    5a) Jones (8 defenses, 11-0-1 in title fights)
    5b) Aldo (9 defenses including WEC, 11-3 in title fights)
    7) Fedor (3 pride HW defenses, 2 WAMMA HW defenses, no UFC titles)

    Quality of opponents (based on opponents records and win streaks at the time of the fights, top 5 wins and top 10 wins)
    1) GSP (most top 5 wins, most top 10wins, stopped insane streaks such as Fitch, Shields, etc.)
    2) Jones (beat tons of former champs and legends of the sport)
    3a) DC (decent lineup of opponents)
    3b) Aldo (similar to DC)
    5) Silva (MW was fairly weak at the time of the reign, no Romero, Rockold, etc.)
    7a) MM (can barely name 5 note worthy opponents)
    7b) Fedor (a lot of good wins and former UFC champs, but also a lot of freak shows)

    Use of PEDs
    1a) MM
    1b) GSP
    1c) DC
    1d) Fedor
    1e) Aldo
    7a) Silva (caught on multiple occasions)
    7b) Jones (nothing more needs to be said at this point)

    Now let's look at this data with a point based system:
    Rank 1 - 6 points
    Rank 2 - 5 points
    Rank 3 - 4 points
    Rank 4 - 3 points
    Rank 5 - 2 points
    Rank 6 - 1 point
    Rank 7 - 0 point

    The results are the following:
    1) GSP - 24 points
    2) DC - 23 points
    3a) Aldo - 17 points
    3b) Jones - 17 points
    5a) MM - 13 points
    5b) Fedor - 13 points
    7) Silva - 11 points

    This list is as objective as it can get and a great representation of a real best P4P in history, in the accurate order.

    Future contenders: Khabib, Holloway and Woodley.
     
  2. dildos

    dildos Gold Belt

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    GSP and Fedor are tied goat.

    Everyone else comes after.

    Jones and Anderson are ruled irrelevant for multiple steroid busts.
     
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  3. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

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    There isn't anything objective about this debate.

    It is purely opinion.

    GSP is a great technical fighter, but I don't care for him bc he stopped finishing fights. Meanwhile, Fedor finished 76% of his fights and never really played it safe. He always fights trying to make his opponent tap or go night night. Same with Jones, but I don't like him bc he's a dbag. Silva was a cheater. MM didn't fight opponents capable of finishing him with any given punch like Fedor did. See where this is going...

    It's subjective. Even if you attempt to objectively define the GOAT, people will say "Fuck you" and disagree.

    End of the day, none of it matters. If nothing else, we can all agree who are the very best we've seen. Fedor, GSP, Jones, Silva, MM, DC and Aldo. Maybe Cruz.
     
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  4. Fedorer13

    Fedorer13 Purple Belt

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    Cool another of these threads.

    No one except a loser will read all that horseshit, TS.
     
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  5. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

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    It's really not purely opinion based. If someone claimed that JDS is GOAT you would just sit there and say ''That's your opinion.''? The reason why these names keep coming is statistically based. Lawler is super entertaining and always went for finishes, like Fedor, that doesn't make him GOAT material.

    The GOAT debate is 100% objective. Some people chose not to be objective to suit their biased opinions (ie: Anyone who claims Silva is greater than GSP).
     
  6. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

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    Based on your AVI and the results, I will assume that you are triggered.
     
  7. nope

    nope Orange Belt

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    most of your points have major flaws

    for example:
    title defenses - pride had different system, you cant blame fighter for it
    quality of opponents - dude what the fuck?) mention top10 wins numbers (based on the rankings at fights date)
    win % - doesnt indicate anything due to the fact some fighters on the list are at the end of their careers while others are still in their prime

    LOL
     
  8. Maaj19

    Maaj19 Green Belt

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    Tbh you could have Fedor, GSP, Aldo and MM in any order with good reasoning and I'd accept it.
     
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  9. LockardTheGOAT

    LockardTheGOAT Sherdog's Intellectual Savior

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    Dude... I'm not reading all that.
     
  10. BeardotheWeirdo

    BeardotheWeirdo Silver Belt

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    Every time I see the word 'objective' in a Sherdog thread title I know I'm in for a laugh.

    Did not disappoint.
     
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  11. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

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    Literally no one is saying that JDS is the GOAT. Generally, no one brings up names that you didn't mention in your OP. That isn't even what I said at all.

    OF THE NAMES MENTIONED HERE EVERYDAY, OVER AND OVER, it is opinion based.

    Btw, @gono btw rounds thinks Sakuraba is the GOAT. And I don't think he is wrong for that.
     
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  12. Egészségére!

    Egészségére! Brown Belt

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    to me beating physically larger opponents than oneself counts for something

    1. Fedor
    2. DC
    3. Silva
    4. GSP
    5. Aldo
    6. Jones
    7. MM
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  13. BooBoyMan

    BooBoyMan Blue Belt

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    same.

    it's virtually impossible to objectively rank one fighter above EVERYONE else. doesn't make sense to me.
     
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  14. gono btw

    gono btw Rounds...

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    See.. It depends exclusively on your personal set of criterias.

    You have your set, I have mine, etc..

    It is what it is.

    In time, mine:

    1/ The way they dominated the game.

    2/ The quality of their opponents.

    3/ The innovations they brought to the game.

    4/ How many [potential] HOFers in the resumé.

    5/ Quality Wins AND Quality Losses (= put wins & losses INTO CONTEXT)

    6/ Ali´s D2BG (Dared 2 Be Great?)... against [legit] heavier opponents.

    Obs: this is NOT a head-2-head contest btw 2 fighters from different eras

    saku bless.jpg

    "But Rule No1: Dont be insecure..."


    Sakuraba belt.jpg
     
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  15. HHJ

    HHJ Jeg reiser til mørkets dyp der alt er dødt.

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    Any list that dont have Fedor at number one is defective and needs to be taken back to the store
     
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  16. Maaj19

    Maaj19 Green Belt

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    Everyone has their good and bad points in relation to GOAT status so so long as you don't go full retard it's all acceptable
     
  17. AtomicPanther

    AtomicPanther Brown Belt

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    Only thing that could have made your 'objective' list worse, is if you somehow added Conor to it. But since you're obviously a GSP fangirl, I guess you wouldn't do that. Most fighters think Fedor's run was the most impressive, so I'll go with them.
     
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  18. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

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    No such thing as prime. Only your first and last fight. If a fighter loses at 24 or at 38, they both count as losses. How are you going to objectively decide when a fighter leaves his prime? Spoiler alert: you can't.

    It's literally a 2 mins read at most, perhaps you should get your HS diploma.

    Objective = numbers, stats,

    Weak troll.

    Yes, he is wrong and should not be taken seriously. 26-17-1 (2) isn't a GOAT record.

    Weight classes exist for a reason. If you fight at 205 and make weight, you are the same size. If you fight at HW, you are 206+. etc. Therefore that criteria is no good.
     
  19. Lokkison

    Lokkison FIGH TERS > Orgs & TUF Sherdoggers

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    Fedor hater, your fucking comments say it all.

    FUCK YOU!
     
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  20. Bodil

    Bodil Blue Belt

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    GSP fangirl because he objectively ranks at number 1? I'm sorry that objective data hurt your feelings.

    GOAT isn't about a run, it's about the overall fighting career, from A to Z.
     

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