“Dragging the fight into the later rounds” = pretending to fight for the first half?

[Marko Polo]

I keep hearing this terminology. It’s something we’ve grown used to as fans, but in actuality, it’s not something that should be praised, and the fact that it is is down to damage control by the commentators. They’re constantly trying to tell the fans what they’re seeing is more entertaining than it actually is - wmma “barn burners” for example, where people are shadow boxing 5ft away from their opponent.


I’m not saying that every fight should look like Lamas vs Holloway in the pocket, but it’s just weird to me seeing someone get praised for stinking out the fight. If you have one guy surging forward and the other guy waiting, only one guy is trying to be entertaining.

Hermansson v Pyfer a classic example. Sure Hermansson fought “smart”… but what does that actually mean? It means he threw one strike at a time, no combinations, no possibility of a finish. I mean if you hate Pyfer on a personal level it was probably entertaining to see him get gradually snuffed out like that, but for most other impartial fans it kinda sucked seeing an exciting up and comer get handled, and it wasn’t due to any lack of skill or technique, it was simply due to the philosophy and approach to fighting that both men took - one was trying to be entertaining and looking for a finish, the other was trying to score points, to the detriment of the fans.

 

[Arm Barbarian]

Glass half empty, or full, depending on ones perceptions.

Sometimes I take into account the opponents involved.

If someone is a hugely front loaded finisher, but his opponent is not, I'd expect that opponent to be more defensive early on.

That said, performances like Colbys vs Leon, particularly after the way he ran his mouth non stop then proceeded to do absolutely nothing but survive for 4.75 rounds, reeked of cowardice.

 

[Spath]

I think it’s about a couple of things; energy spending and styles.

For example, Hermansson knew coming into that fight that he’s not going to win a firefight with Pyfer. He said it himself, he’s a volume striker and had to fight smart. Pyfer has a ton of power and the first punches he threw showed that. Trying to land early and often would have been a death sentence for Jack. If there was only one round McGregor would still be laying guys out in the octagon.

Sometimes you have to weather the storm before you can start going on the offense. Some guys get on their bike and ”run away”, some fight with their hands glued to their head and throw one strike at a time so they wouldn’t be too vulnerable.

In the words of the MW GOAT… Is normal, is fighting!

 

[RockyLockridge]

It's a strategy.

It is still exciting because it creates a new dynamic in the fights story telling. Can his opponent stop him from essentially coasting to the later rounds and winning comfortably?

gotta watch to find out.

I mean if you hate Pyfer on a personal level it was probably entertaining to see him get gradually snuffed out like that, but for most other impartial fans it kinda sucked seeing an exciting up and comer get handled

that's Pyfers fault. Fighters don't fight to entertain us they fight to win if it entertains us, cool. if not, I won so who cares.

I get where you're coming from though, but that's the game. Can't blame the players.

 

[Get To Da Choppa]

I keep hearing this terminology. It’s something we’ve grown used to as fans, but in actuality, it’s not something that should be praised, and the fact that it is is down to damage control by the commentators. They’re constantly trying to tell the fans what they’re seeing is more entertaining than it actually is - wmma “barn burners” for example, where people are shadow boxing 5ft away from their opponent.


I’m not saying that every fight should look like Lamas vs Holloway in the pocket, but it’s just weird to me seeing someone get praised for stinking out the fight. If you have one guy surging forward and the other guy waiting, only one guy is trying to be entertaining.

Hermansson v Pyfer a classic example. Sure Hermansson fought “smart”… but what does that actually mean? It means he threw one strike at a time, no combinations, no possibility of a finish. I mean if you hate Pyfer on a personal level it was probably entertaining to see him get gradually snuffed out like that, but for most other impartial fans it kinda sucked seeing an exciting up and comer get handled, and it wasn’t due to any lack of skill or technique, it was simply due to the philosophy and approach to fighting that both men took - one was trying to be entertaining and looking for a finish, the other was trying to score points, to the detriment of the fans.

This is a brilliant strategy actually if you have better durability and stamina than your opponent.

Unfortunately both Kimbo and Houston had the same strategy but not the stamina

 

[Marko Polo]

It's a strategy.

It is still exciting because it creates a new dynamic in the fights story telling. Can his opponent stop him from essentially coasting to the later rounds and winning comfortably?

gotta watch to find out.

If both guys fight like that there is no sport anymore. It’s selfish imo.

 

[Kourtland]

You have to have a strategy. This isn't rockem sockem robots. Anyway, I thought Hermanson could get the stoppage late, especilly we knew Joe was tired.

 

[Staph infection]

It is a safe way to say I do not have the skills to finish my opponent so I have to hope they get tired so I can win.

 

[blaseblase]

I’m not saying that every fight should look like Lamas vs Holloway in the pocket, but it’s just weird to me seeing someone get praised for stinking out the fight. If you have one guy surging forward and the other guy waiting, only one guy is trying to be entertaining.

Interesting this fight gets referenced since what people remember about it is a 20 second sequence at the end. The rest of the fight did not look like that.

 

[Clark Rogers]

Wearing down an opponent before opening up is nothing new.

Just ask George Foreman.

 

[RockyLockridge]

If both guys fight like that there is no sport anymore. It’s selfish imo.

It's a selfish sport.

It's a sport where a HW champion can win a title and deny anyone else an opportunity to reach greatness by refusing to fight top contenders and instead fighting a geriatric old man.
It's a sport where you can pull out of title fights on 24 hour notice not relinquish your belt, make your opponent fight someone else on short notice and not face a single consequence
It's a sport where you have to wrestle the conscience of another man just to be considered the winner

Everyone wants to fight in this sport, win as much as they can and lose as seldomly as possible while making as much money as they can for themselves and their families.

They don't care about us enjoying it, our amusement is simply a by product of their selfish actions.

 

[IneedSometop]

I too think they should just stand on a line and trade blows one for one

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

Fighters don't fight to entertain us they fight to win if it entertains us, cool. if not, I won so who cares.

I get where you're coming from though, but that's the game. Can't blame the players.

Are you kidding? They do fight to entertain us, if no one watched, they wouldn’t be fighting.

The boring fights are just riding off the coattails of fights that aren’t boring. If fights were all boring, the business is dead. No one watching and no one fighting.

 

[jx820]

it kinda sucked seeing an exciting up and comer get handled, and it wasn’t due to any lack of skill or technique

That's exactly what it boiled down to. Windmilling bombs into the opponents guard for 7 minutes may be exciting, but it's neither skillful or technical.

Planning to exploit your oppoenent's weakness and executing it is VERY skillful. Baiting, defending, and finding the opportunities to turn things around is technical.

It's fair to say it's not a fan friendly slobberknocker. Pyfer would have certainly looked better against someone who would carelessly engage him standing in the phone booth but there are no punching bags or pushovers in the top 15. Pyfer will either have to learn composure or step down to easier fights.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I feel like some guys' styles depend on dragging fights into deep waters. Fluffy Hernandez comes to mind. Some folks just use their fight IQ and/or cardio as a weapon. Also, even conservative fighters like Hermansson get exciting finishes when the opportunity arises. Look at what he did to Kelvin Gastelum?

 

[HatKick]

lol whut? In a 5 round fight you're allowed to not go balls to the wall from the opening bell. If your cardio is so good you can weaponize it against a dangerous striker who is likely to get tired after 3 rounds, you'd be crazy not to use it. Otherwise just make every fight 5 minutes or abolish decision wins.

 

[Kevin Sorbo]

Like other people have said, it's a strategy. Some guys don't do well when dragged into deep waters and cardio is part of the fight game. Are fighters supposed to go 100% the entire 25 minutes? No, that's stupid.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Are you kidding? They do fight to entertain us, if no one watched, they wouldn’t be fighting.

The boring fights are just riding off the coattails of fights that aren’t boring. If fights were all boring, the business is dead. No one watching and no one fighting.

Fights being exciting are a by product of fighting.


Boring is a matter of perspective. I spoke to a poster yesterday who said Yan vs Merab was one of the worst fights ever. Another poster said they found it to be an action packed affair.


If you think a fight was boring that's only your opinion. I have a friend who only watches NHL hockey, which for my money is the most boring sport ever but he likes it.

We don't watch for entertainment, we watch because we want to see who is the best. When I watch ANY competition at the highest level, even if it's darts or pool or even a videogame, I SHOULD be impressed or entertained. So that's what happens with MMA when two great fighters fight eachother and do whatever it takes to win, that doesn't mean doing something really cool that I think is entertaining, Only what is necessary to win.

 

[shunyata]

I think it’s about a couple of things; energy spending and styles.

For example, Hermansson knew coming into that fight that he’s not going to win a firefight with Pyfer. He said it himself, he’s a volume striker and had to fight smart. Pyfer has a ton of power and the first punches he threw showed that. Trying to land early and often would have been a death sentence for Jack. If there was only one round McGregor would still be laying guys out in the octagon.

Sometimes you have to weather the storm before you can start going on the offense. Some guys get on their bike and ”run away”, some fight with their hands glued to their head and throw one strike at a time so they wouldn’t be too vulnerable.

In the words of the MW GOAT… Is normal, is fighting!

We used to call it rope a dope, but the terminology doesn't translate as well to the cage.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

What a terrible take, especially after Hermansson beat Pyfer via experience, cardio/pace and good fight IQ.