We all agree Pride era Fedor, Cro Cop and Big Nog would still be the top 3 today, right?

[FinalConflict2005]

2005 was a good year for mma.

 

[Goll65]

Big Nog had him though, before going for that retard sub in the middle of TKO'ing him.

In the 2nd fight? Yes, Nog was beating Mir on the feet until Frank broke his arm. I think since Mir KO'd him the first fight Nog adapted to make sure that didn't happen again. Still Mir finished him both times. Only guy to finish him at that point so I'd say that was still prime Nog.

 

[Repsac]

Every fighter knows sub defense though and you need like GOAT or multiple time world-champ submission grappling status to even have a high % chance of submitting just average grappling skilled fighters.

When guys get subbed nowadays, it's when they were on the verge of losing by ground and pound anyways. No one gets subbed where the sub itself is really what won the fight anymore. IT happens sometimes but it's really rare.

It's not that rare. I don't even have to think back further than our last co-main event. Cormier had the sub on Volkan and was inches from finishing the fight when Volkan got saved by the belt.
Recent Furguson-Lee springs to mind immediately also, without hardly any thinking.
Top fighters get caught in subs all the time.

 

[wilKO]

Fedor, maybe. Cro cop, however, was most certainly still in his prime and coming off huge wins when he got ktfo'd by Gonzaga. Nogueira, as another guy said, is a poor man's werdum. His striking is nowhere near as good and he got his arm broke by Mir (not that that's necessarily something to be embarrassed by, but it's proof that he is not some ultra elite BJJ guy by modern standards).

Nog beat the brakes off Werdum in Pride. His striking in his prime was not worse than Werdums really. And his chin and heart where light years ahead. Nog is not a poor man's Werdum at all.

 

[RudimarChute]

Fedor would still be champ.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Werdum submitted 2/3 of that list.

Frank Mir KOed 2/3 of that list and has a chance to get the third coming up soon.

 

[Seaside]

Nog was one of the toughest guys EVER in MMA. He could weather any storm and come back to get the win. He might be on the backfoot against those guys, but his will and determination, and basicly unrivaled BJJ at HW (other than Werdum) would give him a good shot to win down the stretch. Watch the beating Fedor put on him, that's the most violent GnP I've seen and he took it like a champ. Most of the current rooster would be KO'd by that GnP (they have been fighting for ages and their bodies and chins are shot).

this what i am talking about. he was great no doubt but style wise there no way he beats a jds, cain or a stipe. WTF would he do? get the shit beaten out of him to further give him brain damage until they gas? And Cain wont gas and JDS and Stipe can at least make it 4 rounds without gassing and then tire in the 5th but survive.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I never like trying to project fighters (or other athletes for that matter) into different eras. Everyone is a product of their particular era. If those guys were coming up in MMA today there's a good chance they'd be different fighters given the advances in cross training and just training in general that have been made in modern MMA. In the era those guys were on top, that was kind of when MMA was still evolving from being a glorified tough man contest into a legit sport with modern training techniques.

This is true across different sports as well.

 

[cade187]

Because HWs of today have such fantastic ground games lol. The only fighters with any ground game at all are Stipe, Werdum, Overeem, Cain, Arlovski, & Aleksei Oleinik... That's literally it. I'd wager 90% of today's HW UFC roster are purple belts or lower.

There are exactly 3 fighters on the roster with equal level, or greater, grappling to Nogueira. Werdum, Cain, and Oleinik. That's it.
Anyone that believes Stipe, Overeem, Arlovski, or anyone else on the UFC roster are better on the ground than Nog are insane.

When people make claims of all this new upcoming talent in the UFC, all I can do is shake my head. Where are these guys? The HW roster is ruled by 40 year old PRIDE fighters with a bunch of 30 year olds with no former grappling training as the "prospects". It's embarrassing.

I never said everyone is better than Nog, but like I said in my post, Nog excelled at the basics. He took advantage of people who had very limited understanding of the ground. I'm a Nog fan, but he wouldn't look as impressive if he was just making it now.

 

[superpunch]

It's not that rare. I don't even have to think back further than our last co-main event. Cormier had the sub on Volkan and was inches from finishing the fight when Volkan got saved by the belt.
Recent Furguson-Lee springs to mind immediately also, without hardly any thinking.
Top fighters get caught in subs all the time.

Volkan was already done and the submission was just finishing him off like the fatalities in Mortal Kombat.

I didn't see Ferguson-Lee but Ferguson was an NCWA national wrestling champion.

Guys only really get submitted in 2018 after they've already been nearly killed by other skills. Offensive submission skills aren't what's winning these fights. Striking, wrestling, and ground and pound is.

Offensive submission as a high priority and effective skillset is something that was done in 2005 as a relic of 1993.

When was the last time you saw someone getting beat on in the guard and pulling off an armbar or a triangle choke? <<ok Anderson fucking Silva!! but seriously, it's super rare>>

 

[fartsniffer]

They wouldn't even be top 10.

 

[smiles mma]

@Claude thinks so

 

[listrahtes]

I don't know about that. Ngannou sleeps people, and Fedor did get caught a few times being wreckless. I wouldn't underestimate a guy with power like that. It's HW. That said, if Fedor came in smart, didn't get caught the first round and put the grappling pressure on Ngannou he would most likely decision him or TKO him.

Cro Cop would probably dance around Ngannou and counter with the left straight to set up the headkick all night.

Fedor fought massive brawlers and well I would also favor Gary Goodridge against Nganou.
Speed kills especially when its combined with power like Fedor had. Ngannou doesnt have a technical defense game like prime Arlovski or Crocop to nullify that at least to a point and make Fedor pay.

 

[cade187]

Big Nog has a win against Werdum when they were both young and fresh. Prime Nog was an animal.

No, they weren't both young and fresh. Prime Nog has a decision win over green Werdum. They never met in their primes. Prime Werdum has a submission win over old Nog. It's clearly still a better win.

 

[Sano]

this what i am talking about. he was great no doubt but style wise there no way he beats a jds, cain or a stipe. WTF would he do? get the shit beaten out of him to further give him brain damage until they gas? And Cain wont gas and JDS and Stipe can at least make it 4 rounds without gassing and then tire in the 5th but survive.

How did Werdum beat Cain again? Nog subbed Cro Cop in his prime, a guy that had better takedown defense than JDS and better striking than the other three. He could win.

 

[laleggenda27]

Stipe and Cain (depending on health) would be interesting match-ups for the Big 3. But HW is so awful at this point that any other current HW would be a sacrificial lamb for any of the Big 3. In fact, a number of other HWs from that Pride era would smash most of the current HW division (e.g., Barnett, Sergei, Igor, Coleman, etc.). The Pride HW division was a murderer's row. Timmeh and Arlovski from that era would also do very well.

 

[gujukal]

They were all roiding back in the Pride days and thats why they looked so strong, explosive and had amazing cardio. With todays USADA testing they would be fucked.

 

[Bamboozled]

I have never gotten the love for Nog.

I think he would be Top 10 for sure, especially in what appears to be a somewhat shallow HW pool. But I think he gets wrecked by most of the Top 5 HWs of the past decade.

Fedor and Crocop are no doubt Top 5 material.

Because Nog beat the shit out of a majority of top heavyweights in his day.

I assume you're a newer fan and that's fine. I'd go watch some of Nogs earlier fights.

 

[Taric]

I never said everyone is better than Nog, but like I said in my post, Nog excelled at the basics. He took advantage of people who had very limited understanding of the ground. I'm a Nog fan, but he wouldn't look as impressive if he was just making it now.

Werdum, Nogueira, Maia, etc all have a Carlson Gracie approach to BJJ. Tremendous fundamentals, nothing flashy. This is not a negative.
Guys like Mir who have no issues going for leg locks and the like sometimes put themselves in a position to get pounded the hell out.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

this what i am talking about. he was great no doubt but style wise there no way he beats a jds, cain or a stipe. WTF would he do? get the shit beaten out of him to further give him brain damage until they gas? And Cain wont gas and JDS and Stipe can at least make it 4 rounds without gassing and then tire in the 5th but survive.

Agreed. Nog was as tough as any fighter I've ever seen, but I'd favor JDS, Cain, and Stipe over him in their primes.