We all agree Pride era Fedor, Cro Cop and Big Nog would still be the top 3 today, right?

Kleinschuster said:
Amazing video. But it also shows that the skill level outside of those three was really weak. They beat everybody easily with little bleeps here and there...
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They were that good. They destroyed some lower ranked guys but they also all beat some very skilled HWs. They had some very elite wins. Especially Nog. Nog has more ranked wins than any HW ever. Just look at the first 9 names on Nog's list and all those guys are far more skilled than most of the HWs in the UFC today. Nog has the best resume of any Heavyweight ever

Cro Cop beat:

Barnett 3x
Aleks
Herring
Coleman
Wanderlei
Randleman
Igor

Nog beat:

Barnett
Werdum
Sergei
Cro Cop
Sylvia
Coleman
Couture
Herring 3x
Ricco
Schaub
Volk Han
Sapp
Schilt
Goodridge
V Overeem
Dan Henderson


Fedor beat:

Nog 2x
Cro Cop
Arlovski
Sylvia
Herring
Hunt
Coleman
Randleman
Rogers
Schilt
 
If you mean just Nog then sure, the other two were trash compactors.
 
Typrune Goatley said:
Nog was way old and past it when he fought Werdum in UFC. That doesn't prove much.
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God fucking dammit guys.

Again, the point being made (in that particular post, but not as a whole for this thread) was not "Werdum is better.... look at this fight!" It was in response to someone saying that Werdum had not evolved, and used his Strikeforce bout with Overeem to qualify the statement. My point was "That fight was the stepping stone for him evolving, hence it's pretty ironic that you posted it... you're helping illustrate my point."

I honestly think half of y'all are not understanding what's being said. Even just a couple posts age someone (you it appears) gave a breakdown of Nog's resume. I just can't really handle the fact that anyone thinks that is what TS was discussing. He is discussing the likelihood that prime versions of Nog, CroCop, and Fedor would be able to dominate in modern ear MMA. He is not asking who has the best resume. He's asking "would these guys, in their prime, be able to be perennial Top 3 in modern times?"

Their past accomplishments have NO BEARING this question. Their resumes may give hints to their likely success in modern MMA, but again, we're not comparing records here. TS did not ask for that. And I'm fucking DONE with this idiotic debacle of an attempt at a conversation.
 
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nfffffku said:
Neither victory is indicative of anything other than they were at different points in their respective careers when they fought.
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You're not wrong. But I think you, like half the people here, are not grasping my entire point.

Someone said that Werdum had not evolved, as evidenced by his Strikeforce fight with Reem. I thought this was ironic, because he has evolved, and that fight with Reem was the stepping off point for said evolution. And one of the fights that showed his game evolving, was his last fight with Nog.

I honestly don't give a flying fuck who won that fight, in the context of "Has Werdum evolved?" because the two are not intrinsically dependent upon each other.

[slams head into desk]

Trying to keep a discussion on track here is like trying to corral a thousand howler monkeys. I give up times a billion on this one.

giphy.gif
 
BBMN said:
God fucking dammit guys.

Again, the point being made (in that particular post, but not as a whole for this thread) was not "Werdum is better.... look at this fight!" It was in response to someone saying that Werdum had not evolved, and used his Strikeforce bout with Overeem to qualify the statement. My point was "That fight was the stepping stone for him evolving, hence it's pretty ironic that you posted it... you're helping illustrate my point."

I honestly think half of y'all are not understanding what's being said. Even just a couple posts age someone (you it appears) gave a breakdown of Nog's resume. I just can't really handle the fact that anyone thinks that is what TS was discussing. He is discussing the likelihood that prime versions of Nog, CroCop, and Fedor would be able to dominate in modern ear MMA. He is not asking who has the best resume. He's asking "would these guys, in their prime, be able to be perennial Top 3 in modern times?"

Their past accomplishments have NO BEARING this question. Their resumes may give hints to their likely success in modern MMA, but again, we're not comparing records here. TS did not ask for that. And I'm fucking DONE with this idiotic debacle of an attempt at a conversation.
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Werdum did improve his Muay Thai over the last few years but it still wouldn't be enough to beat prime Nog or prime Sergei, prime CC, and even prime Arlovski would still be a very tough matchup for prime Werdum. (Even though I have Werdum like 3rd or 4th all time, he has bad matchups like anyone does.)

The division depth and skill level is low right now at HW and LHW. There are only a few elite HWs around now.

Of course if 40 year old Werdum is the 2nd best HW in the world, then of course prime Nog, who had better boxing and better chin than Werdum, would still be elite today.

If 37 year old cracked chin Overeem is top 4 today then of course prime Mirko,, who was much faster and more explosive, would be elite today.
 
Not top 3. Stipe, Cain, DC would beat all 3
 
Typrune Goatley said:
Werdum did improve his Muay Thai over the last few years
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Thank you for understanding the conversation.

Of course if 40 year old Werdum is the 2nd best HW in the world, then of course prime Nog, who had better boxing and better chin than Werdum, would still be elite today.
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I think it's trickier than that. Nog had better hands, but Werdum is more willing to mix it up with knees and kicks. And he's unpredictable. And he submitted Fedor, whereas Nog let Fedor bounce his grey matter like a basketball off the mat for much of their fight times. And you're fucking still stuck on Werdum....

I've been discussing the likelihood that Nog would be considered perennial Top 3 over the past several years that make up modern MMA. I absolutely have a hard time seeing him best not just Werdum, but prime versions of Cain, Stipe, Ubereem, Mir, JDS, and Lesnar.

You apparently think he easily dispatches these fellas, and lands squarely in either spot 2 or 3, alongside CroCop, and Fedor at the top. I just don't feel this would happen, no matter how solid his boxing was, and how good his chin was. I think he gets mauled really badly by Cain and Stipe and Reem. I think DC even would shut down his grappling game and take him to a 30-27 loss. I think Lesnar (for lack of a better term) rapes him. And I think Mir snaps him (he did.) His best shot at all these guys is getting a sub on JDS.

This is why I said I think he would be Top 10, not Top 3. There is no disrespect delivered to him. Being one of the Top 10 fighters of all time in any division is astounding. I just picture him falling somewhere like #7, not #2.

The Top 3 as far as I can tell (again we're talking prime versions fighting other prime fighters) are in no particular order Cain, Fedor, and Stipe. I do NOT see Nog (or anyone else) besting those three men more times than not.
 
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