We all agree Pride era Fedor, Cro Cop and Big Nog would still be the top 3 today, right?

[djason1988]

Fedor, maybe. Cro cop, however, was most certainly still in his prime and coming off huge wins when he got ktfo'd by Gonzaga. Nogueira, as another guy said, is a poor man's werdum. His striking is nowhere near as good and he got his arm broke by Mir (not that that's necessarily something to be embarrassed by, but it's proof that he is not some ultra elite BJJ guy by modern standards).

 

[linvillegorge]

I never like trying to project fighters (or other athletes for that matter) into different eras. Everyone is a product of their particular era. If those guys were coming up in MMA today there's a good chance they'd be different fighters given the advances in cross training and just training in general that have been made in modern MMA. In the era those guys were on top, that was kind of when MMA was still evolving from being a glorified tough man contest into a legit sport with modern training techniques.

 

[stinkynecklace]

I have never gotten the love for Nog.

I think he would be Top 10 for sure, especially in what appears to be a somewhat shallow HW pool. But I think he gets wrecked by most of the Top 5 HWs of the past decade.

Fedor and Crocop are no doubt Top 5 material.

I love Nog because of his toughness and durability and ability to persever and pull off the win against odds. But I agree with you that his skill set served more at that time than it would now. Still top ten though.

 

[Goll65]

Mir KO'd & submitted Nog, KO'd CroCop, & has a chance for the hat trick real soon.

 

[Titleboxe]

Yes, I agree 100% with you, Prime Fedor is GOAT

 

[PalmStrike]

So some here are saying no to Big Nog, meanwhile Werdum is currently ranked #3?

 

[lukeuidswords]

I have never gotten the love for Nog.

I think he would be Top 10 for sure, especially in what appears to be a somewhat shallow HW pool. But I think he gets wrecked by most of the Top 5 HWs of the past decade.

Fedor and Crocop are no doubt Top 5 material.

You've "never gotten" the love for Nog?

Ban this man

 

[lukeuidswords]

I love Nog because of his toughness and durability and ability to persever and pull off the win against odds. But I agree with you that his skill set served more at that time than it would now. Still top ten though.

Nog would've finished Ngannou.

 

[L0ki]

Werdum submitted 2/3 of that list.

He also lost to 1/3rd and didn't fight 1/3rd.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Kharitonov as well.

 

[Taric]

Nog, like a lot of guy's at the time, flourished because of the fact that most people's ground games were not that good at the time.

Because HWs of today have such fantastic ground games lol. The only fighters with any ground game at all are Stipe, Werdum, Overeem, Cain, Arlovski, & Aleksei Oleinik... That's literally it. I'd wager 90% of today's HW UFC roster are purple belts or lower.

There are exactly 3 fighters on the roster with equal level, or greater, grappling to Nogueira. Werdum, Cain, and Oleinik. That's it.
Anyone that believes Stipe, Overeem, Arlovski, or anyone else on the UFC roster are better on the ground than Nog are insane.

When people make claims of all this new upcoming talent in the UFC, all I can do is shake my head. Where are these guys? The HW roster is ruled by 40 year old PRIDE fighters with a bunch of 30 year olds with no former grappling training as the "prospects". It's embarrassing.

 

[Shaddows]

I think that those 3 were kings in their era of MMA.

it is impossible to gauge how they would do in today's MMA. But the fact remain: at their time, they were kings; and their reign of dominance span through a decade (and beyond).
So I find it crazy that someone with a 3 title defenses can be even measured to be better than what these guys accomplished.

yes, he may be able to beat those fighters, but that's the evolution of the sport.
better training facilities, better trainers, better gym, better supplements, better technology, etc.


So I don't compare fighters with fighters only.
I compare how they dominated the game.

And so far, no one dominated like these guys did.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

not cro cop no

 

[stinkynecklace]

Nog would've finished Ngannou.

Probably. I don't think he would beat Stipe, Overeem, Werdum, JDS or Cain though.

 

[jonathan274]

Cro cop, however, was most certainly still in his prime and coming off huge wins when he got ktfo'd by Gonzaga.

Naw. USADA + he had been fighting for more then a decade at that point (first fight in 96) with nearly 60 professional fights involving striking, between MMA and Kickboxing. It was Gonzaga's 9th MMA fight (he started in 2003 and was previously a grappler - BJJ.) This certainly also wasn't the first time he was KO'd in his very long career.

Truly a legend.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

So some here are saying no to Big Nog, meanwhile Werdum is currently ranked #3?

View attachment 329381

I agree. It doesn't make sense.

Nog had the GOAT chin and cardio and he had better boxing. Sure, Werdum had better kicks but Nog definitely had better hands.

Werdum and Cro Cop were good friends so they would never fight but there is no way in hell Werdum could have survived the beating CC put on Nog. Werdum didn't have that type of durability.

Also Nog was able to beat Sergei in a close decision while Werdum lost to Sergei in a less competitive decision. People can say that wasn't quite yet prime Werdum or that he didn't have his striking yet but he couldn't really even score takedowns and secure anything on the ground as good as Nog did and grappling was Werdum's background.

I remember Werdum shooting for takedowns and Sergei threatening with a guillotine so Werdum would have to drop back to his side/hip to protect his neck and try to sweep Sergei over but it never really worked IIRC.

I remember many times Sergei just posturing up and standing out of Werdum's guard and bringing the fight back to the feet.

The difference was also in the boxing.

Werdum improved his kicks years later but he still doesn't have the hands to box with Sergei. I really don't think his kicks would be so effective on Sergei either. I actually think the best version of Sergei would always beat the best version of Werdum.

Nog had the ability to hang in boxing exchanges while Werdum really couldn't and would flop to his back.


I haven't seen those fights in a while but they are such technical masterpieces for HW. It also shows Nog could beat a lot of opponents that Werdum would likely struggle against. Two of the best HWs ever but Nog was far more consistent and just a notch above Werdum.

 

[Sano]

I have said this before, but this version of;

Cro Cop:

Nog:

And Fedor:

Would do alright in the UFC. Look at Cro Cop moving on his feet, taking angles and being quick as hell in that first gif. Damn. Also set that highkick up against Hunt beautifully. Made him slip to the outside by faking exchanging jabs.

THIS WAS ALMOST 15 YEARS AGO. Let that sink in.

 

[Buff]

TheHeavyweight division will never be what it was for as long as USADA are in town.

There needs to be a massive recruitment for Heavyweights - not even necessarily good one, just big jobbers for current favourites like Hunt and so on to smash on like they used to do in Pride.

Everyone loves a heavyweight fight - it's two freaky big dudes swinging bombs to scramble grey matter - it's a spectacle. The UFC needs to stop treating it so limp wristed and give us fights - I'll take record padding fights and freakshows and day over only having 20 something active Heavyweights in the entire division.

Pride understood this. They used to get just about anyone in to get KO'd by Fedor, CroCop, Wanderlei, and all the rest... That's what built up their stars so much, and what made it so spectacular... By the time the tournaments and title fights rolled in we were rabid to see these guys fight eachother because they looked like absolute monsters after crushing a few cans in between. It made for a massively successful product, confident fighters, and some incredible highlights.

Bring on the cans.

Spoiler

Yes I posted this in a thread just a minute ago but nobody read it so I'm putting it here.

 

[listrahtes]

Fedor vs. Ngannou would look like Fedor vs. Gary Goodridge. Crocop vs. Ngannou would look like his fight against Aleks Emelianenko only faster with the ko.

Even second tier Pride HWs like Aleks E. would obliterate near everyone. Its very obvious in that way out of prime fighters like Overeem, Werdum and Hunt can still have a career in the UFC HW division.

 

[jonathan274]

I posted this in another thread but this version of;

Cro Cop:

Nog:

And Fedor:

Would do alright in the UFC.

THIS WAS 15 YEARS AGO. Let that sink in.

Good gifs. They were all killing machines at the top of their game, and far superior to anything UFC had to offer at the time. Crocop Wand was heartbreaking but a beautiful performance because even if Mirko is my favorite HW of all time, Wand is my favorite fighter - but Mirko needed to win to set up a possible Fedor rematch!

Fedor vs. Ngannou would look like Fedor vs. Gary Goodridge. Crocop vs. Ngannou would look like his fight against Aleks Emelianenko only faster with the ko.

Even second tier Pride HWs like Aleks E. would obliterate near everyone. Its very obvious in that way out of prime fighters like Overeem, Werdum and Hunt can still have a career in the UFC HW division.

Well said!