We all agree Pride era Fedor, Cro Cop and Big Nog would still be the top 3 today, right?

BBMN said:
I have about 40 Pride DVDs.

And you seems to not understand what OP is asking. He wants to know what we think of Prime Nog's chances in recent years within the UFC.

I think he is limited, and would not be Top 3. He's limited to his ground game, but its 2018, not 2004... there's lots of guys with solid ground games now. Plus he's not physically imposing. Heart? Sure? BJJ? Sure. These alone do not get you into the top of the division for the past decade or so.
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Nog actually had better boxing than most of the top 10 in the UFC right now. He just wasn't a knockout machine.
 
Fedor in his prime is still the best MMA HW i ever seen, dude got a crazy combination of physical/technical/mental qualities in the same fighter

Nog idk where will rank in today's MMA but lol at peoples just selling him as a worse-Werdum
Incredible toughness/recovery, better boxing, stronger... and last but not last in the fight where they was closer to theyr own physical prime Nog won.
Sure is true he got experience advantage over Werdum, but still more fair comparision than Werdum's revenge on old zombieNog lol
I think prime Nogueira will have done good in UFC, surely top10, possibly top5

Crocop at some point was one of the most dangerous strikers of MMA, simple as that
Was fast, technical, powerful with both hands and legs, strong as fuck
I don't know how he will have adapted to today landscape, but think his kille pride version did'nt have chances of hurt anybody is absurd
 
Local Plata said:
Not Nog, but Fedor and Cro Cop probably, although they might have gotten USADA'd.
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Fedor? The guy who very clearly started losing his athletic abilities in his late 20s early 30s would have gotten USADA'd? Not the magical UFC fighters who keep their physical primes all the way into their late 30s though, am I on to something here?
 
lukeuidswords said:
Yes it is. I guess you don't know how GOAT discussions work.
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I am discussing what TS brought up. I can't make you discuss what TS brought up.



Prime Werdum didn't "starch" an old shot post-hip surgery Nog,
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I feel Werdum peaked just in the past few years. And yes, he finished him in this time period in 2013...

Nog was outstruck, showed poor head movement, landed zero take downs, and no passes. He had one good combination in the fight, and was finished at his own game.


Watch more classic Nog fights my guy. Fedor hit him with shots hard enough to put a hole in a Challenger II and still had to work all the way to the final bell.
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There's some Volvo's from the 80s that are as tough as tanks. Doesn't mean they're Top 3 Sedan in 2018. You're equating toughness with "Top 3" and I can't really pursue this any longer....
 
PEDS Help me Post said:
Nog actually had better boxing than most of the top 10 in the UFC right now. He just wasn't a knockout machine.
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I know this. Never said anything to the contrary.

I'm simply saying when I look at the whose who of the past decade or so at HW, I don't see Nog in the Top 3. That's all I'm saying, guys. I genuinely think he would be Top 10, just not Top 3. I think Prime Fedor beats him again. I think Prime Werdum beats him again. I think Prime Ubereem breaks his face. I think Lesnar mauls him. I think CroCop has what it takes to win the rematch. I think Cain hurts him. I think Stipe kills him.

Sorry. I would imagine he would be like number 8 or something.
 
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BBMN said:
I am discussing what TS brought up. I can't make you discuss what TS brought up.

I feel Werdum peaked just in the past few years. And yes, he finished him in this time period in 2013...

Nog was outstruck, showed poor head movement, landed zero take downs, and no passes. He had one good combination in the fight, and was finished at his own game.
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Yeah, when he was a geriatric dinosaur and 14 years deep into his career. He was done when Heath Herring basically KO'd him in their rubber match. His durability, reflexes, and athleticism, had faded considerably.

BBMN said:
There's some Volvo's from the 80s that are as tough as tanks. Doesn't mean they're Top 3 Sedan in 2018. You're equating toughness with "Top 3" and I can't really pursue this any longer....
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I'm saying he wouldn't be KO'd by anyone in the Top 5. Don't reduce this discussion to a single factor I brought up to refute your proclamation that everyone in the Top 5 would ice him. They wouldn't. Stipe just failed to finish a literal white belt who was immobilized by his gas tank from 4 minutes into the fight. Overeem couldn't knock out the notoriously chinny Mir. I could go on. There is nobody swinging hammers from top position like Fedor was in 2003. None.
 
BBMN said:
I know this. Never said anything to the contrary.
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Actually, yes you did by saying that he was "limited" to his ground game. Why would he be limited to his ground game when he can outbox most of the division?


BBMN said:
I have about 40 Pride DVDs.

And you seems to not understand what OP is asking. He wants to know what we think of Prime Nog's chances in recent years within the UFC.

I think he is limited, and would not be Top 3. He's limited to his ground game, but its 2018, not 2004... there's lots of guys with solid ground games now. Plus he's not physically imposing. Heart? Sure? BJJ? Sure. These alone do not get you into the top of the division for the past decade or so.
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wilKO said:
Nog beat the brakes off Werdum in Pride. His striking in his prime was not worse than Werdums really. And his chin and heart where light years ahead. Nog is not a poor man's Werdum at all.
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The werdum that nog beat is nowhere near the animal he is now. He just developed that striking acumen the past 5-6 years.
 
PEDS Help me Post said:
Actually, yes you did by saying that he was "limited" to his ground game. Why would he be limited to his ground game when he can outbox most of the division?
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Fair enough. I still don't think his fundamentals would be enough in boxing. He's ten times more skilled at boxing than Lesnar for example.... wouldn't matter. (Didn't matter for Mir, Randy, or Heath.) He's limited by being of average strength and athleticism. I think he was the ultimate 'blue collar' fighter in his day when it comes to boxing being durable. I don't think this makes him Top 3.

I think he falls to Fedor, Stipe, Cain, Reem, and Werdum, without much doubt. If this is the case, he ain't not Top 3. If you think he crushes all these guys... then I guess I agree to disagree.

giphy.gif
 
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BBMN said:
Fair enough. I don't think his fundamentals would be enough in boxing. He's ten times more skilled at boxing than Lesnar for example.... wouldn't matter. (Didn't matter for Mir, Randy, or Heath.) He's limited by being of average strength and athleticism. I think he was the ultimate 'blue collar' fighter in his day when it comes to boxing being durable. I don't think this makes him Top 3.

I think he falls to Fedor, Stipe, Cain, Reem, and Werdum, without much doubt. If this is the case, he not Top 3. If you think he crushes all these guys... then I guess I agree to disagree.

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I think he's highly competitive against all of them. I don't think he crushes them and I doubt they crush him but I think he has a great chance to win in all of them.
 
It's tough to say. Their styles worked much better in a ring vs a cage.
 
I think that's so lame that guys bring up fighters like werdum and hunt as if to point out nothings changed. Those two are completely different fighters from then and have evolved with the times, especially werdum. Mark hunt played around in werdums guard and got back up to his feet , and then got KOed by werdum with a knee to the chin.

Do you think either of those guys were capable of that back in 05? Absolutely not. Anyway I still think those three are still top 5 material because they were special athletes with awesome combat experience. To me it's not a knock on the heavyweight division but more credit to how special those crop of heavyweights were at the time. They were studs then and in there prime would be studs now.
 
I'm not sure about top 3 but they would all be top 5 for sure. Stipe is like the only well-rounded guy in his prime in the UFC HW division right now. Pretty sad.
 
capnlarge said:
I'm not sure about top 3 but they would all be top 5 for sure. Stipe is like the only well-rounded guy in his prime in the UFC HW division right now. Pretty sad.
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Cain and Werdum aren't? (if you include Cain, dude never seems to fight)
 
I dont understand the hate for Nog, he beat CroCop, Sylvia, and fought Sapp when no one would
I would definitley put him top 3 all time
 
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