Would Aspinall have been ranked in the heyday of the UFC HW division?

[Superzorro]

Aspinall's only takedown defense that has been tested was Spivac in the first round on last minute notice while Tom had a full training camp. So I have no fucking clue how people are so certain about his TDD. Any top HW in history with wrestling might be able to beat him. We have no idea.

Cardio wise we've see nothing from him besides a slower fight from Arlovski where he controlled him on the ground, not really using explosive movement. That's only the 2nd round, and also the last 2 times he went to the 2nd round he lost early in his career, including submitted.

It's HW so Aspinall has quick hands and power, he could beat every single HW in history, but so could Tuivasa or Lewis. If you look at odds before every HW fight he was the favorite besides against Volkov, where Tom kept him on the ground.

Really insane how much is attributed to Aspinall with no proof. I'd be more inclined to give him benefit of the doubt if he had some credentials in other sports to put him at such a high level, but he really has nothing besides BJJ which must have come later considering he was heelhooked in his 4th fight.

But there are people here who say he has the advantage against Cain and DC… Let that sink in. Like think about the level of wrestling it would take to compete with those guys. Josh Barnett, Brock Lesnar… none of those guys were good enough. But what Tom Aspinall has shown us would be too much for them.

^^ no he’s garbage and the only reason he exists now is because the top 10 has such HW greats like Tybura and Gaziev, 50 year old Arlovski for reference.

That amazing power on display. What a brilliant tactician he is in the cage.

Yeah it's an intriguing hypothetical matchup. Tom is faster and more fluid imo but JDs showed he can be in a DOGFIGHT and keep coming. We haven't had to see that from Tom yet. So imo its really an amazing fight that's anyone's guess.

He’s not more fluid. His striking is robotic. His entire game is predicated on overwhelming you before you have time to think. JDS is a much more slick boxer who fights behind the jab. Neither of them have good head movement. Tom is definitely faster with his hands and his footwork. JDS is more stationary. But timing beats speed and that’s always been something that Cigano was good at by MMA standards.

 

[orca]

Can he? Sure. Would he? No way to know. Tom is absolutely faster than any version of JDS but that's just one factor. We're just guessing, prime JDS was super skilled but Tom probably even more skilled and definitely more athletic. But absolutely not as battle tested.

who did tom beat?
have you seen tom vs 42 year old arlovski?
how can you be so sure?
i have seen how tough jds is and who he beat

ive also seen how many times tom lost in his prime

jds might be the best boxer in the UFC HW history
no ones calling tom a great boxer
but just big and fast

 

[Superzorro]

Peak JDS was very fast. It's hard to truly say who's faster but I'd argue prime JDS was better and faster than anyone Tom has ever fought. And I'm a big Tom fan btw.

I can see what they’re saying. JDS has to load up on his shots. They’re more telegraphed. But when he does let them off, they’re pretty fast. Tom has less tell and they’re shorter.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

I can see what they’re saying. JDS has to load up on his shots. They’re more telegraphed. But when he does let them off, they’re pretty fast. Tom has less tell and they’re shorter.

Agreed

 

[Ibm]

I would like to see him vs prime Tim Sylvia.

 

[Dionysian]

I'm convinced that TS is actually Cyril Gane trolling online.

 

[mkess101]

But there are people here who say he has the advantage against Cain and DC… Let that sink in. Like think about the level of wrestling it would take to compete with those guys. Josh Barnett, Brock Lesnar… none of those guys were good enough. But what Tom Aspinall has shown us would be too much for them.



That amazing power on display. What a brilliant tactician he is in the cage.


He’s not more fluid. His striking is robotic. His entire game is predicated on overwhelming you before you have time to think. JDS is a much more slick boxer who fights behind the jab. Neither of them have good head movement. Tom is definitely faster with his hands and his footwork. JDS is more stationary. But timing beats speed and that’s always been something that Cigano was good at by MMA standards.

Tom is more a counter striker, where speed is key. He's more fluid in the context of what he's trying to do. His timing is plenty good, especially when matched with his speed. He didn't "overwhelm" Pavlovich or Blaydes. He let them commit, slid slightly out of range, then landed killshots (crisp chopping 1-2 on Pav that he followed up with another, a counter over the top on Blaydes) that effectively ended each fight. That's not robotic, it's just great counter striking.

JDS absolutely utilized his jab better than Aspinall does. And hid his power shots behind it well. I think he also stayed on balance better than Aspinall. That's a flaw with Tom. He relies on his athleticism a ton and at times throws punches he maybe shouldn't because he's sure he can reset to a safe place regardless. And he can vs lesser strikers. But against a guy like JDS? Maybe not.

 

[mkess101]

He's the first person to KO both Cain and Werdum(not even Ubereem stopped Werdum).

Prime JDS is a lot scarier than Tommy

It's weird that people think they have to choose.

No, he isn't "a lot scarier than Tommy". But he was still amazing. It's not one or the other. Both have traits that make them a nightmare. Aspinall has finished all 8 of his UFC opponents, 7 in the first round. 5 of them are top ten. The division might be historically weak but that's still scary AF. He's running through the top 10 like a buzz saw.

And none of that takes away from how awesome JDS was.

 

[Felya]

Hard to say because he hasn't beaten that many good fighters which isn't his fault. Just a sign of the times. Heavyweight division really sucks.

 

[Tweak896]

But there are people here who say he has the advantage against Cain and DC… Let that sink in. Like think about the level of wrestling it would take to compete with those guys. Josh Barnett, Brock Lesnar… none of those guys were good enough. But what Tom Aspinall has shown us would be too much for them.



That amazing power on display. What a brilliant tactician he is in the cage.


He’s not more fluid. His striking is robotic. His entire game is predicated on overwhelming you before you have time to think. JDS is a much more slick boxer who fights behind the jab. Neither of them have good head movement. Tom is definitely faster with his hands and his footwork. JDS is more stationary. But timing beats speed and that’s always been something that Cigano was good at by MMA standards.

Tom isn't garbage by any means, he's just not a perfect fighter. He's sort of like those boxers that looked godly in eras with bad competition. Jones is the only one with a skill set to challenge Tom really, but even he is a 40 year old LHW who has been champ since his early 20s.

Who is left at HW right now? Only guys to "test" Tom are not well rounded. Tom would take Gane down and sub or wrestle him. Tom would force Almeida to stand and beat him on the feet.

Even if we got Tom vs Jones and Ngannou back to back, those guys are ancient in age or fight mileage. Sadly there's no way he can prove much right now.

Imagine him vs Cro Cop where he's forced to fight a K1 striker. Or Cain where he's taking you down or mauling you on the feet or ground. HW used to be much more well rounded.

 

[Superzorro]

Tom is more a counter striker, where speed is key. He's more fluid in the context of what he's trying to do. His timing is plenty good, especially when matched with his speed. He didn't "overwhelm" Pavlovich or Blaydes. He let them commit, slid slightly out of range, then landed killshots (crisp chopping 1-2 on Pav that he followed up with another, a counter over the top on Blaydes) that effectively ended each fight. That's not robotic, it's just great counter striking.

JDS absolutely utilized his jab better than Aspinall does. And hid his power shots behind it well. I think he also stayed on balance better than Aspinall. That's a flaw with Tom. He relies on his athleticism a ton and at times throws punches he maybe shouldn't because he's sure he can reset to a safe place regardless. And he can vs lesser strikers. But against a guy like JDS? Maybe not.

I disagree. Blaydes is the only one that I can remember, where he actually countered the person to finish him. And then when you actually analyze that fight (ie what he was doing before the finishing sequence), it was trying to rush him and catch him. Every other finish he's gotten in the UFC has come from him moving forward and not really having any regard for what the other person is throwing back at him (Tybura, Collier, etc). And what I mean when I say that he's robotic - pay attention to the tempo of his attack. It's basic, stiff and straightforward, and it never changes. There's no rhythm to it. It's really apparent to me that his striking doesn't have any traditional foundation outside of MMA. And when he fights someone that does, I think we're really going to see what he's made of.

 

[Superzorro]

Tom isn't garbage by any means, he's just not a perfect fighter. He's sort of like those boxers that looked godly in eras with bad competition. Jones is the only one with a skill set to challenge Tom really, but even he is a 40 year old LHW who has been champ since his early 20s.

Who is left at HW right now? Only guys to "test" Tom are not well rounded. Tom would take Gane down and sub or wrestle him. Tom would force Almeida to stand and beat him on the feet.

Even if we got Tom vs Jones and Ngannou back to back, those guys are ancient in age or fight mileage. Sadly there's no way he can prove much right now.

Imagine him vs Cro Cop where he's forced to fight a K1 striker. Or Cain where he's taking you down or mauling you on the feet or ground. HW used to be much more well rounded.

Saying that Jones is the only one with a skillset to challenge Aspinall doesn't really mean anything though, if they're the only two decent fighters. Before Jones, it was a forty year old Arlovski. You see what I mean? Like you could say that about anyone who is above average; the bar is extremely low right now.

And yeah, I agree. I was being sarcastic in the post you quoted. There are really, real-life people on this Earth who genuinely believe Tom Aspinall could challenge DC and Cain in wrestling or Overeem in striking.
Most of the people mentioned in the original post would get in there and mop the floor with this kid. I'd put money on it. And if Jon Jones was the same size and age as him, I promise they would not be asking for the fight like this. I promise.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

I would like to see him vs prime Tim Sylvia.

you are a sick puppy what did Tim do to deserve these thoughts in your head

 

[Ibm]

you are a sick puppy what did Tim do to deserve these thoughts in your head

Tim was the best HW in the world at one time.

 

[mkess101]

I disagree. Blaydes is the only one that I can remember, where he actually countered the person to finish him. And then when you actually analyze that fight (ie what he was doing before the finishing sequence), it was trying to rush him and catch him. Every other finish he's gotten in the UFC has come from him moving forward and not really having any regard for what the other person is throwing back at him (Tybura, Collier, etc). And what I mean when I say that he's robotic - pay attention to the tempo of his attack. It's basic, stiff and straightforward, and it never changes. There's no rhythm to it. It's really apparent to me that his striking doesn't have any traditional foundation outside of MMA. And when he fights someone that does, I think we're really going to see what he's made of.

He absolutely countered Pavlovich. Pavlovich threw a punch, Tom slid back and a bit laterally to avoid it and immediately sent a quick 1-2 to the side of Pav's head.

Agree on Tybura and to a lesser extent Collier. It looks like Tom has zero respect for what can come back at him so he blitzes. That seems somewhat opponent dependent though.

I think he varies his tempo better than you give him credit for too. It's hard to get a great read with fights ending so quickly but there's times he looks to be getting in a flow state. His "rushes" are also so effective because of his speed that it's hard to fault him for leaping into an opening when it's there.

 

[mkess101]

Saying that Jones is the only one with a skillset to challenge Aspinall doesn't really mean anything though, if they're the only two decent fighters. Before Jones, it was a forty year old Arlovski. You see what I mean? Like you could say that about anyone who is above average; the bar is extremely low right now.

And yeah, I agree. I was being sarcastic in the post you quoted. There are really, real-life people on this Earth who genuinely believe Tom Aspinall could challenge DC and Cain in wrestling or Overeem in striking.
Most of the people mentioned in the original post would get in there and mop the floor with this kid. I'd put money on it. And if Jon Jones was the same size and age as him, I promise they would not be asking for the fight like this. I promise.

He couldn't challenge Cain or DC in wrestling...not sure who'd think that. At best he could possibly use his quickness and athleticism to keep distance as needed and maybe counter wrestle. Then land a fight altering shot.

Probably not much point in debating. People just make up their minds in these hypotheticals and act as though they know what would happen. Which I find amusing, but also ridiculous.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

What about Cain???

IMO, prime Cain has a real chance to beat literally any MMA fighter ever including Tom and even Fedor. The problem was he was never healthy so his window was so small.

If Tom was around in that era, Cain would have probably been on the sidelines hurt for most of it. If someone held a gun to my head, I’m not even sure who I’d pick, it would be a pure 50/50. There’s a chance it could look like JDS Cain 1 but if Cain were to win, I doubt it would look like JDS Cain 2/3. Tom is a threat on the ground where JDS was not.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

He's the first person to KO both Cain and Werdum(not even Ubereem stopped Werdum).

Prime JDS is a lot scarier than Tommy

Prime JDS was nothing to fuck with. 6'4 235lbs with great speed, balance, power and ability to find his target. Would be really interesting to see them fight eachother. I do think that Tom is slicker defensively than Cain and Fat Werdum. Would be an insane match up.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

IMO, prime Cain has a real chance to beat literally any MMA fighter ever including Tom and even Fedor. The problem was he was never healthy so his window was so small.

If Tom was around in that era, Cain would have probably been on the sidelines hurt for most of it. If someone held a gun to my head, I’m not even sure who I’d pick, it would be a pure 50/50. There’s a chance it could look like JDS Cain 1 but if Cain were to win, I doubt it would look like JDS Cain 2/3. Tom is a threat on the ground where JDS was not.

I'm a huge Tom fan and I'm grateful we have him during the dark age of the HW division. With that said I think prime Fedor and prime Cain could challenge him in areas where others couldn't. Specifically in the clinch and later in the fight where we haven't seen Tom yet. He moves great when he's fresh but how does he do 12-15 minutes into the fight when his opponent is still game and dangerous standing in front of him?

 

[Ares Black]

why false?

Because the Arlovski fight that was nowhere near his toughest fight. At no point was Aspinall ever in any danger.

who gave tom his hardest fight in the ufc?

Volkov, Pavlovich and Blaydes were all much harder fights. Arlovski survived longer but posed no threat whatsoever.

wich fighter do you think accomplished more than 42 year old arlovski?

Aspinall has wins over ranked opponents. Beating the ghost of Andrei Arlovski means very little.

denying it because it makes tom look bad

Your post makes you look bad, and says nothing at all about Tom Aspinall.