Would Aspinall have been ranked in the heyday of the UFC HW division?

[muaythaibeast]

He thinks its 50/50 against Ngannou. The reality is Aspinalls chances are far worse than that.

Based on what? He took a bit shot from Pavlovich and wasn't phased so his chin isn’t really a question.
It's an interesting fight, but I'm not sure how you make Francis favourite. Tom would be much faster

 

[muaythaibeast]

1) Stipe being overrated is the dumbass part, especially ironic for a Rampage (quite overrated on here) fan to say
2) I've never heard anyone claim Stipe was the HW GOAT
3) Stipe's win over prime Ngannou (in the first fight before Stipe was too old/washed) remains one of the best HW wins. Stipe actually beat Ngannou, too...it wasn't a weird staring contest like Lewis-Ngannou.

People call Stipe the HW GOAT as a statement of fact the same way GSP is called the Welterweight GOAT. It's a really common claim.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I think you can comfortably say he'd be top 10 in any era. Beyond that its hard to judge his exact level because his fights are so short.

As far as the Arlovski fight, detractors like to bring it up constantly but I dont think you can really read too much into it. Thats just how things played out on the night. Hes fought much better fighters than 42 year old AA and destroyed them much more quickly and easily. It is what it is.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Lmao all Carwin had was power and 1 round gas tank, fun fighter but by far and away one of the most limited contenders the division ever had. He should not be held as an all time great at all.

Yep. Hes a perfect example of how impressionable people can be sometimes just because someone was around in a hotter era. His record was 12-2, eight of his wins were pre-UFC in regional level MMA, nine of the guys he beat dont have a wiki page. His UFC record was 4-2 and his two big wins were Mir and Gonzaga, granted the Brock fight is contentious but at the end of the day he gassed out hard in the second round and got stopped as a result. Meanwhile "unproven" Tom is 15-3, 8-1 in the UFC with the one loss being from a self inflicted freak injury. Are Pav, Blaydes and Volkov actually worse fighters than Mir and Gonzaga? i'd say no.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

not long ago there was the buentellos, gan mcgees, justin eilers types that made up the division, similar now.

Its not a great division currently but it isnt remotely similar to that lol.

 

[fries in the bag]

He would be Champ.

Aspinall > Prime Ngannou > HW Jones > Prime Stipe > Cain > Couture > Cro Cop

 

[EnthusiastCultivator]

I’m not sure Asspinall even beats the likes of Gane or Almeida let alone guys like DC, Cain, JDS, Ngannou, Werdum etc.

 

[YourBoss]

Yes he would be champ. Best HW ever. And he will smoke Jones if they ever fight.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I’m not sure Asspinall even beats the likes of Gane or Almeida let alone guys like DC, Cain, JDS, Ngannou, Werdum etc.

Jailton could be interesting but Gane has pillow fists, poor grappling and just got gifted a decision over a guy Tom steamrolled. His level is pretty obvious by now. Good technical striker and athlete but heavily flawed and manufactured.

 

[Tweak896]

Aspinall's only takedown defense that has been tested was Spivac in the first round on last minute notice while Tom had a full training camp. So I have no fucking clue how people are so certain about his TDD. Any top HW in history with wrestling might be able to beat him. We have no idea.

Cardio wise we've see nothing from him besides a slower fight from Arlovski where he controlled him on the ground, not really using explosive movement. That's only the 2nd round, and also the last 2 times he went to the 2nd round he lost early in his career, including submitted.

It's HW so Aspinall has quick hands and power, he could beat every single HW in history, but so could Tuivasa or Lewis. If you look at odds before every HW fight he was the favorite besides against Volkov, where Tom kept him on the ground.

Really insane how much is attributed to Aspinall with no proof. I'd be more inclined to give him benefit of the doubt if he had some credentials in other sports to put him at such a high level, but he really has nothing besides BJJ which must have come later considering he was heelhooked in his 4th fight.

 

[acannxr]

So Tom goes 2-5 or at best 3-4 in the division if he manages to beat JDS. Either way it's a losing record and he's not ranked in the top 10. Tom is great for his current division but in see him very similar to a Miguel Torres, looks amazing for his division but it's more due to the level of competition.

You could make the same case for Jones, who talked about moving up to Heavyweight since 2011-2012, but waited until all the fighters you mentioned were no longer in the title picture.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

You could make the same case for Jones, who talked about moving up to Heavyweight since 2011-2012, but waited until all the fighters you mentioned were no longer in the title picture.

Yes you definitely could, but Jones is a LHW and that's where the bulk of his legacy was made.

And yes your point further emphasizes my point in this thread, in the current HW division the old fat past prime Jones is considered the biggest challenges for Aspinall. You just said it, Jones most likely wouldn't have been the top HW in past years, even though he was in his prime. That's how much better the division was.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Prime past fighter vs. Currently Prime fighter is nuanced since "MMA specific training" for the kiddiez is a relatively new development. Back in the day fighters had to travel to diff gyms for diff. disciplines. That slowly began changing to the point where the kids can now start their training in all aspects of MMA in one gym... & blending the disciplines together better. So the new fighters have an advantage that the past guys didn't.

That said, Aspinall's issue is very unique in that the division as a whole is weak. By contrast: During & after Cain's run, there was a solid 5 or 6 high level gate keepers that kept everyone else knocked back, while they only lost to each other. It was an iron curtain for many years. I recall clearly when Black Beast breached teh gate & later Blaydes & both eventually became a long time gate-keeperz themselvez.

Back then, Stipe was one of those gate keepers, but at some point, he just kept winning & broke the HW title defense record. That was impressive.

We don't see that nearly as strong today, & so Aspinall's resume comez with a bit of an asterisk if we're comparing to the past fighterz. His record of 1st round finishez gives him a strong case though. All this makes "prime vs prime discussions" hard to calculate. Jones took full advantage of the weakened HW division by jumping on it at this time, & defending against the retiring Stipe.

Has anyone considered, that if Jones can get past Aspinall, that he then has a wide open division for him to break Stipe's defense record?

 

[MuddyFugger]

Strip Jones

 

[cmw43]

How can you really tell though? The only decent opposition he has right now is Gane and an old fat LHW and he hasn't fought either. We haven't even gotten to see his defensive wrestling/grappling tested at all, Blaydes got knocked out too fast to even attempt a TD. The only evidence we have is Stuart completely dominating him over a prolonged period with wrestling and then subbing him, granted it was a while ago.

"Granted it was a while ago" - it was 10 years ago when Tom was a green 22 year old, he'd wipe the floor with Stuart today and you know it. And he was not completely dominated by any stretch, have you actually watched the fight? Aspinall was mauling him with GNP before the sub.

 

[cmw43]

Nostalgia bias in these threads is hilarious

Why does everybody act like prime JDS was some uber skilled boxer who you could never stand with?

As if Frank Mir or Mark Hunt don't get dusted off far worse by Tom.

Prime JDS was running through everyone and even after he got mauled out of his prime by Cain he still beat Stipe.

I believe he's still got the longest win streak in UFC at HW.



Carwin managed to survive to a decision but got absolutely battered.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

"Granted it was a while ago" - it was 10 years ago when Tom was a green 22 year old, he'd wipe the floor with Stuart today and you know it. And he was not completely dominated by any stretch, have you actually watched the fight? Aspinall was mauling him with GNP before the sub.

Yes I've watched the fight and I explicitly referenced that part of the fight you bring up. But for the majority of the fight Tom was pushing hard for takedowns of his own and getting denied, then taken down by his opponent. In the grappling aspect he was mostly dominated, then even after getting that dominant position and raining down punches, he managed to get heel hooked.

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

Lol like I'm reading that

Lol like I'm reading that

Took me 18 seconds

 

[Leinster Rugby]

Took me 18 seconds

Congratulations

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Prime JDS was running through everyone and even after he got mauled out of his prime by Cain he still beat Stipe.

I believe he's still got the longest win streak in UFC at HW.



Carwin managed to survive to a decision but got absolutely battered.

JDS was Aspinall before Aspinall, except the with a way way way way better resume. His UFC debut was a better win and more impressive than anything Aspinall has done so far LOL! I can't believe the revisionist history that guy tried to pull.