Signings/Scouting WMMA Discussion #29

[Mittens]

Ending thought: Grasso/Val is one of the best arguments for a Pride style "who won the fight in general + finishing strong emphasized" type of judging instead of the 10-point-must we have.

 

[Kuksenkov]

This draw is so unfair to every party. Valentina had a brain fart and even then she did enough to win the fight, there's no way you can score round 5 a 10-8 Grasso; when Valentina did the same thing to her in an earlier round for longer and more efficiently. A 10-9 Grasso would give the win to Valentina, which is why the 10-8 is shady as fuuuuuuck. Really? Out of every round you score the very last one a 10-8 when Valentina was winning most of the round, and ahead on the scorecards again?

Grasso walks away with the belt but it will be heavily disputed due to the judging, the date/event this draw took place in, and how shady the whole thing is.
Alexa did NOT win that fight, literally. She gets to walk away with a belt because of the rules, but she shouldn't be the champion as of now.

Alexa has clearly improved her game by leaps and bounds, but I'm afraid her success against Valentina is also due to her intense research and preparation for her; so said success won't translate well in potential fights against Manon, Erin, or even Taila. Me thinks she's a great matchup for both Fiorot and Blanchfield. Her grappling has improved considerably, but I don't think it's enough to survive against Blanchfield on the ground, or to keep Fiorot down. On the feet she's clearly better than Blanchfield, yet I think Fiorot pieces her up with kicks and counters. Which makes me believe that Fiorot has her number and IF they fight, we're going to have a French champion next.

Three fights in a row where Valentina has a brain fart. I'm afraid those habits are too deeply ingrained in her, for her to stop falling for the same stupid mistake of wanting to grapple when she's a better striker than everyone else. Had she kept it standing in her last three fights, she could've walked away with three unanimous victories and a belt full of rubies. But she stubbornly decides to grapple for no reason.

You can't do the rematch because if Valentina wins, Grasso gets an immediate rematch again, but if Alexa wins then you made her fight the same woman three times back to back to back, while there's two legitimate contenders being sidelined. Yet Valentina shouldn't be fighting down when she literally didn't lose the fight and should have won the belt back. Maybe she could wait for her next shot after Alexa fights either Fiorot or Blanchfield, but then getting a title fight against either of them would be unfair too.

I say they should vacate the belt, match up Grasso vs Shevchenko in a non-title fight, likewise for Fiorot and Blanchfield. The winners fight for the vacant belt. Or fatal four way that shit, may the best woman win.

 

[Mittens]

Alexa did NOT win that fight, literally. She gets to walk away with a belt because of the rules, but she shouldn't be the champion as of now.

Rules matter, not our opinions and feelings. Hence she is the Champion, everything else is not reality. Draw means retaining.

 

[Kuksenkov]

Rules matter, not our opinions and feelings. Hence she is the Champion, everything else is not reality. Draw means retaining.

Exactly, she keeps the belt because of the rules, not because she won. She didn't, nor did Valentina.

 

[Mittens]

Exactly, she keeps the belt because of the rules, not because she won. She didn't, nor did Valentina.

Absolutely, draws by definition mean neither side won. And thus she is the Champion, and Val is not. And that is all there is to it.

 

[Askafan]

This has always been the rule in combat sport, a champion puts the belt on the line and if the challenger fails to win the champ keeps the belt. Grasso successfully defended her belt.

I'm going to enjoy the salt though.

 

[werepig]

This draw is so unfair to every party. Valentina had a brain fart and even then she did enough to win the fight, there's no way you can score round 5 a 10-8 Grasso; when Valentina did the same thing to her in an earlier round for longer and more efficiently. A 10-9 Grasso would give the win to Valentina, which is why the 10-8 is shady as fuuuuuuck. Really? Out of every round you score the very last one a 10-8 when Valentina was winning most of the round, and ahead on the scorecards again?

Grasso walks away with the belt but it will be heavily disputed due to the judging, the date/event this draw took place in, and how shady the whole thing is.
Alexa did NOT win that fight, literally. She gets to walk away with a belt because of the rules, but she shouldn't be the champion as of now.

Alexa has clearly improved her game by leaps and bounds, but I'm afraid her success against Valentina is also due to her intense research and preparation for her; so said success won't translate well in potential fights against Manon, Erin, or even Taila. Me thinks she's a great matchup for both Fiorot and Blanchfield. Her grappling has improved considerably, but I don't think it's enough to survive against Blanchfield on the ground, or to keep Fiorot down. On the feet she's clearly better than Blanchfield, yet I think Fiorot pieces her up with kicks and counters. Which makes me believe that Fiorot has her number and IF they fight, we're going to have a French champion next.

Three fights in a row where Valentina has a brain fart. I'm afraid those habits are too deeply ingrained in her, for her to stop falling for the same stupid mistake of wanting to grapple when she's a better striker than everyone else. Had she kept it standing in her last three fights, she could've walked away with three unanimous victories and a belt full of rubies. But she stubbornly decides to grapple for no reason.

You can't do the rematch because if Valentina wins, Grasso gets an immediate rematch again, but if Alexa wins then you made her fight the same woman three times back to back to back, while there's two legitimate contenders being sidelined. Yet Valentina shouldn't be fighting down when she literally didn't lose the fight and should have won the belt back. Maybe she could wait for her next shot after Alexa fights either Fiorot or Blanchfield, but then getting a title fight against either of them would be unfair too.

I say they should vacate the belt, match up Grasso vs Shevchenko in a non-title fight, likewise for Fiorot and Blanchfield. The winners fight for the vacant belt. Or fatal four way that shit, may the best woman win.

draws don't make sense in any case. however, you gotta beat the champ to be the champ.
with so many belts changing hands recently i am pro new matchups across the board - look how fresh men's flw and ww divisions are now! i want the same for women's flw

 

[Rizz]

draws don't make sense in any case. however, you gotta beat the champ to be the champ.
with so many belts changing hands recently i am pro new matchups across the board - look how fresh men's flw and ww divisions are now! i want the same for women's flw

This is the main reason why I am up for Grasso to fight someone else instead of a trilogy. I want to see a new matchup. Plus new matchups gives the new division more life. 3 fights by the same 2 fighters for the belt just jams the division up and right now the division is the best it has ever been after initially being jammed up by Nicco. So why would you slow it down now. Valentina might have broken something so this should at least get one new fight between her and Grasso fighting again. Look how amazing male 125 got after Mighty Mouse left.

 

[Rizz]

Congratz to loopy on an amazing fight and finishing sequence. I love when the ladies get a bonus.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Going to re watch the last fight, but on first pass I am OK with a draw and Grasso needs to fight someone new. Val has had two chances.

Happy with the results of the other fights, particularly Loopy, of course. Do not understand Cortez getting a 30-27 for her fight as I had her losing the second.

 

[Xuh]

- Grasso 2, 4, 5


- Loopy actually fought smart


- Jasu/Cortez was very close, I was pleased to see at least a couple of media scores for Jasu because I felt it wasn't unreasonable to suggest she won the fight. Ultimately she's just too too slow, unable to do anything but block every punch with her face, which isn't good for the judges.

- Knutsson was completely dominant but it feels like an L that she couldn't get a finish against someone giving an Oscar-winning method acting performance as a punching bag. Dana must feel validated about not signing her via Cantenders now (sure she's more than skilled enough but they were always gonna sign her one way or another and the idea is to stress to fighters they should go for the kill above all else). Gonna get rich betting on all of her fights to go to decision, forever, from now on.

Speaking of,

Damn draw cost me $100

Draw almost always = void, check with your bookie

 

[Eater of Souls]

Okay, re-watched while eating breakfast.
Round one clearly Val, more significant strikes, more aggression, takedown and control Grasso landed more total strikes but unlike their last fight Val landed better shots. 10-9 Val.
Round two: regardless of how well Val did the remainder of the round she got knocked on her ass. 10-9 Grasso.
Round three: Val all the way. Still 10-9 as I do not think she did enough damage to award a 10-8, but this was the most one-sided round of the right.
Round four: 10-10. Everything is roughly equal in both my re-watch and looking at the numbers. I would seriously have to nit-pick shit for a 10-9 and I am not in the mood to do that.
Round five: Val was doing better on the feet and then went for a fucked up takedown attempt. Hard to avoid 20 years of habit under pressure. Grasso capitalized on this and had a good sub-attempt. She did not land shit (1 maybe two strikes on the ground, was just reading a thread where some clown referred to this as "Val getting pummeled" which is when my Nonna did more damage every time I spilled something in the kitchen.) Val landed a few more decent shots but Grasso with control and sub-attempt gives her the round 10-9.
All of this is just my opinion.

Give the next shot to the French chic and let Val fight Blanchfield. Or the reverse. One is a title eliminator and the other is to see if Val still truly has it and Grasso just has her number (relatively speaking) or her decline is setting in. In the end Father Time remains undefeated, and as an old man I truly want to kick that asshole right in his chronological nuts.

 

[aerius]

It almost feels like Knutsson is trying to get some extra cage time in to work on stuff, Mann was outclassed but she kept letting her hang around instead of finishing her. Josefine showed good fundamentals with her striking and takedown defence, reminded me a bit of Joanna. Needs to work on her decision making though, she made that fight way harder than it needed to be.

After her last fight, I said Jasmine is what Gillian Robertson should be, and she is. Jasmine is fearless and doesn't give a shit about getting hit, she kept walking down Cortez the entire fight and trading shots with her even though she was losing in the first half of the fight, she trusted her cardio & toughness to eventually break Cortez later on. Tracy started out well and had a huge speed advantage early which let her land almost at will, but things got a lot harder for her once she started slowing down. Grappling was interesting since Cortez is the one who usually has the advantage there, but she didn't want none of Jasmine's ground game. I thought Jasmine won the last 2 rounds pretty clearly, but yeah, retard judges. 30-27 Cortez? GTFO.

Loopy did what she was supposed to do. She remembered that she's a wrestler with heavy hands and actually used her wrestling & grappling instead of going pure boxing like she did against Hill. Reed actually did pretty well to get up the first time and defend the subs for as long as she did, but she was just outmatched.

Valentina reminds me of past-prime Aldo, all the skills are still there but her athleticism is fading and she's having to adjust her game to work around that. She's still fast but it's not the same speed advantage she had in her prime so she gets hit more on the feet. Also doesn't have the strength to ragdoll opponents the way she used to so she's had to figure out new ways to get them down. Gas tank isn't there either which I think is why she was going for subs a lot more aggressively than usual to try & finish the fight instead of using her top control game.

Grasso did about what I expected her to do. She knew Valentina would have to be more aggressive and make mistakes, and the openings would be there for her to capitalize on. Which she did. She's finally learned to trust her boxing and not give a shit about takedowns since she's now confident on the ground. Reminds me of a boxing version of Joanna, just work that boxing game and no fucks given about takedowns & grappling. Grappling sequences were sweet, I'll have to watch this one with my grappling coach buddy to understand how some of that stuff happened.

Alexa has clearly improved her game by leaps and bounds, but I'm afraid her success against Valentina is also due to her intense research and preparation for her; so said success won't translate well in potential fights against Manon, Erin, or even Taila. Me thinks she's a great matchup for both Fiorot and Blanchfield. Her grappling has improved considerably, but I don't think it's enough to survive against Blanchfield on the ground, or to keep Fiorot down. On the feet she's clearly better than Blanchfield, yet I think Fiorot pieces her up with kicks and counters. Which makes me believe that Fiorot has her number and IF they fight, we're going to have a French champion next.

I think Manon's volume & athleticism can give Grasso some trouble, but I'm not sure it's enough. Her kicks, cardio, and strength can be used to score on Alexa on the outside and get work done in the clinch, but her defence leaves a lot more openings for punches than Valentina's. Probably 50/50, there's clear paths to victory for both fighters. I think Erin gets straight up trashed, Grasso's boxing is better than Taila's and she's got a 5 round gas tank. Erin doesn't have the defence to deal with that, nor are her takedowns anywhere near as good as Val's so she's gonna have a rough time trying to get Grasso down. And even if she does it's not an insta-win as the Santos fight showed, Alexa's pretty solid at defending & scrambling on the ground. As for Taila it's gonna depend on her gas tank, should be fairly even as long as her cardio holds up, but as soon as she slows down she's in trouble.


P.S. Fuck those retard judges. 30-27 Cortez and a 10-8 5th round for Grasso? It's like they're trying to make boxing look respectable. The refs & judges on this card were atrocious.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Alexa Grasso vs. Valentina Shevchenko. A really exciting fight. Super tense as it was so close. I had it 2-2 going into the final round. Then felt Grasso won that last round, so 2, 4 and 5 for Grasso. Weird scoring by the judges but I'm glad Alexa retains her belt.

Lupita Godinez vs. Elise Reed. Great performance and finish for Loopy. Good seeing her get a well deserved bonus. She's fun to watch and I noticed the crowd loved her.

Tracy Cortez vs. Jasmine Jasudavicius. Cortez answered the question about her time off. She improved her stand up game. Impressed with Jasmine's competitiveness too. She is good. I thought Jasmine won a round (2 I think it was) so again a judge scoring all 3 for Tracy is just weird to me.

Josefine Knutsson vs. Marnic Mann. Dominating decision win for Knutsson. She didn't get a finish but she she left no doubt that she deserved the victory. Definitely look forward to seeing her again.

Overall a great night of fights. With odd judging on two of them.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Yay, for Loopy, Cortez, Knutsson. Went as it supposed to go.

Grasso/Val 2 was a very good fight. Different things happening, some close calls and an amazing ending with Grasso getting the back again for a strangulation. Had it 3-2 for Grasso, but 4th was close so Val winning would have been cool too. So draw is probably the best scenario around - Val walks away from championship competition for a while without back to back losses unlike so many other former long term champs in the modern age and Grasso continues as the reining champion. All is well with the draw.

Well, unless for some reason UFC decides to logjam the division with a rematch. Time for both fight someone else. Draws happen all the time outside of USA*, we should not be afraid of draws.

And for the elephants in the room:
1) Val's unsportsmanship took to new heights never before seen in MMA, with the "hurr, mexican independence day corruption"
2) Instead of bullshit like Val is spouting, I assume incompetent Mike Bell realized he had goofed up earlier (round 4) and "fixed" it with the bad call of 10-8. We should just d

Fixed it like Mike Bell fixed the fight. Val wasn't wrong his card is blatantly corrupt. Two judges gave her the fourth she is the rightful winner.

This draw is so unfair to every party. Valentina had a brain fart and even then she did enough to win the fight, there's no way you can score round 5 a 10-8 Grasso; when Valentina did the same thing to her in an earlier round for longer and more efficiently. A 10-9 Grasso would give the win to Valentina, which is why the 10-8 is shady as fuuuuuuck. Really? Out of every round you score the very last one a 10-8 when Valentina was winning most of the round, and ahead on the scorecards again?

Grasso walks away with the belt but it will be heavily disputed due to the judging, the date/event this draw took place in, and how shady the whole thing is.
the same woman three times back to back to back, while there's two legitimate contenders being sidelined. Yet Valentina shouldn't be fighting down when she literally didn't lose the fight and should have won the belt back. Maybe she could wait for her next shot after Alexa fights either Fiorot
I say they should vacate the belt, match up Grasso vs Shevchenko in a non-title fight, likewise for Fiorot and Blanchfield. The winners fight for the vacant belt. Or fatal four way that shit, may the best woman win.

I think the answer should be what they did with the HW belt back in the Couture era, Grasso vs Firot for the undisputed belt, and Erin vs Val interim title at the same time.

 

[Necrocrawler]

Well...

My thoughts

First: made some money on girls this week lol
Polastri/knutsson/loopy were all locks

Knutsson made her opponent look like she was not UFC level... heck... maybe not even regional level....
Didnt saw a beatdown like that since tecia torres x Angela Magana. That also worries me she doesn't have a killer instinct, since it looked she could have finished her in any round.

Godinez was sensational. Really solid performance. She definitely has a future.

Couldnt watch Val x grasso basically. When i could, It was around the fourth minute of the last round and shev was getting pounded so... idk...

I Just feel like It was a little stupid celebrated like she won, while also kinda trying to avoid the trilogy...

 

[msm1981]

What I think could be the issue with Valentina Shevchenko which is something every fighter experiences regardless of
gender and that being age since most in the fight game who are 35 years of age or older typically slowdown about that point
and gradually decline as time goes by.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Fixed it like Mike Bell fixed the fight. Val wasn't wrong his card is blatantly corrupt. Two judges gave her the fourth she is the rightful winner.



I think the answer should be what they did with the HW belt back in the Couture era, Grasso vs Firot for the undisputed belt, and Erin vs Val interim title at the same time.

That would be awesome if it's on the same card.

 

[Askafan]

That would be awesome if it's on the same card.

While I agree with the matchups, the idea of an interim belt is ridiculous. What's the point, other than as a sop to Val's ego.

Half the fanbase think Grasso won, half Shevchenko. I've always been of the opinion that a challenger should win the belt decisively, which Grasso did and, however you spin it, Val didn't. Time to move on.

 

[Necrocrawler]

While I agree with the matchups, the idea of an interim belt is ridiculous. What's the point, other than as a sop to Val's ego.

Half the fanbase think Grasso won, half Shevchenko. I've always been of the opinion that a challenger should win the belt decisively, which Grasso did and, however you spin it, Val didn't. Time to move on.

Time to move on to the rematch?