Why does the President demonstrably lie so much, and why do we tolerate it?

[nostradumbass]

You should seek group therapy. All of this rationalize lies to justify silly policy position will taint your soul.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/?utm_term=.76dc5d709e4f

You might want to actually sift through those sometime. It's democrats arguing against democrat positions just to find some way Trump's claim was inaccurate. The gov't-run VA has rationing and wait times, several other presidents have given bigger tax cuts. oh no, some of the jobs he claims have been created started in between the election and inauguration.

 

[TheGreatA]

Among the most fallacious statements I've ever heard.

So you think Trump just became the president of the United States on his own?

Here's an idea. You want to turn America into a country that cares about the truth? Well, how about making some efforts to be more truthful yourself. Maybe that will show them.

Based on what I've seen here, you don't exactly go to great lengths to ensure that what you're posting is factually accurate information. Same goes for a lot of people. They care about what's convenient. If is turns out to be true, great. If not, well, fuck it, ignore it and bullshit, spin, deflect your way through it. At the end of the day, what matters is "winning" and protecting your reputation.

That's exactly what Trump is doing. Honesty is not among his priorities. Winning, and being perceived as a winner, is much more important. Until you can change the game to be such, that being honest is winning, you're unlikely to see anything change.

If it's just a matter of, well, Trump can't lie because his politics are bad, but we can lie because our politics are good, don't expect anybody to buy it. If you want to set a standard, then you have to apply that standard on yourself, perhaps even more strongly than on others.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

You might want to actually sift through those sometime. It's democrats arguing against democrat positions just to find some way Trump's claim was inaccurate. The gov't-run VA has rationing and wait times, several other presidents have given bigger tax cuts. oh no, some of the jobs he claims have been created started in between the election and inauguration.

All of this skirts the subject. Trump objectively lies far more often and with disdain, absolute disdain, for the intelligence of those who hear them.

Regardless of what letter next to their names. Any POTUS whether I liked them or not, I'd be questioning their sanity given the same set of behaviors. I think some posters can't grasp that non-partisan assessments are a thing that exists.

 

[King in the North]

I have not praised any kind of trade war. We'll have to see how it turns out, but if what he's doing is just to lower tariffs other countries impose on the US, then it's fine, if it is just to ramp up tariffs on other countries, I'm against it.

Hasn’t it already harmed American farmers, automobile & motorcycle manufacturers, and bourbon manufacturers?

That and it seems pretty idiotic to impose tariffs on our closest friends in Europe, along with Canada and Mexico.

But I appreciate your open mindedness. I expect this move will bite Trump in the ass. Those adversely affected make up his base.

 

[InternetHero]

A salient view from a different perspective that's circumspect, nice

Thanks, Donald Trump is the edge of something, and we ought to all step back.

I would be satisfied to see a reasonable Republican to defeat him in a primary challenge, or a reasonable Democrat defeat him for the Presidency.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Hasn’t it already harmed American farmers, automobile & motorcycle manufacturers, and bourbon manufacturers?

That and it seems pretty idiotic to impose tariffs on our closest friends in Europe, along with Canada and Mexico.

But I appreciate your open mindedness. I expect this move will bite Trump in the ass. Those adversely affected make up his base.

Fellows, fellows, topic drift...

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

Are those his most egregious lies? They are pretty tame, I expected more.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Thanks, Donald Trump is the edge of something, and we ought to all step back.

I would be satisfied to see a reasonable Republican to defeat him in a primary challenge, or a reasonable Democrat defeat him for the Presidency.

Either. Just, reasonable.
Is that so much to ask, America, to have a choice between two losers?

 

[nostradumbass]

All of this skirts the subject. Trump objectively lies far more often and with disdain, absolute disdain, for the intelligence of those who hear them.

Regardless of what letter next to their names. Any POTUS whether I liked them or not, I'd be questioning their sanity given the same set of behaviors. I think some posters can't grasp that non-partisan assessments are a thing that exists.

I would of course prefer the guy was accurate all the time, but most of those are exaggerations or slightly off on timeline. Some are straight up lies, but there aren't many that are complete fabrications of anything of consequence. For example, if he said he would lower my tax burden, then I look and it's much higher, I'd be more upset than him rounding up on some number to assess the job he's doing.

 

[irish_thug]

With the recent claim that buying groceries requires ID, to making Mexico pay for a wall, to political promises, why do we tolerate such blatant lying from this, and only this POTUS?
And why on Earth does he do it?
There seem only two best answers:
1. He's really that ill-informed
Or
2. He's doing it intentionally to redefine the truth to suit whatever the moment requires in order to foster confusion.

"The President has a great deal of difficulty with the truth. On many issues." ~Bob Corker

Discuss...

"Alternative facts"

 

[InternetHero]

Are those his most egregious lies? They are pretty tame, I expected more.

Have you really not seen my friend?

Donald Trump will take something a little true and warp it completely into a story, or worse invent a story solely to promote his Presidential brand.

And what example is that to the media, that already leans leftward? Look in the media, look among the intellectuals, look at the people around us, they are devolving into anger and outrage, and are stepping past the boundaries of life to attack the enemy in Trump.

America may be the victim, but America invited a real estate tycoon with no understanding of government, contempt of anyone who disagrees, and yes a voracious appetite for fiction.

Would you want this man to watch your children? And there is, the Father of the Nation.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

Have you really not seen my friend?

Donald Trump will take something a little true and warp it completely into a story, or worse invent a story solely to promote his Presidential brand.

And what example is that to the media, that already leans leftward? Look in the media, look among the intellectuals, look at the people around us, they are devolving into anger and outrage, and are stepping past the boundaries of life to attack the enemy in Trump.

America may be the victim, but America invited a real estate tycoon with no understanding of government, contempt of anyone who disagrees, and yes a voracious appetite for fiction.

Would you want this man to watch your children? And there is, the Father of the Nation.

Lol.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I would of course prefer the guy was accurate all the time, but most of those are exaggerations or slightly off on timeline. Some are straight up lies, but there aren't many that are complete fabrications of anything of consequence. For example, if he said he would lower my tax burden, then I look and it's much higher, I'd be more upset than him rounding up on some number to assess the job he's doing.

I can't recall another POTUS that straight made up some shit like the grocery requirement.
Did nobody tell him, "Mr President, that's simply untrue." ?
IMO we will eventually find out that his most egregious lies involve his best people and Russians.

Drain the swamp? Was that even pretending to honesty?

 

[King in the North]

Fellows, fellows, topic drift...

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

 

[InternetHero]

Lol.

I'm laughing too, I'm laughing too.

What more could we do?

But remember that all politics is fleeting, and let everyday be true.

 

[nostradumbass]

I can't recall another POTUS that straight made up some shit like the grocery requirement.
Did nobody tell him, "Mr President, that's simply untrue." ?
IMO we will eventually find out that his most egregious lies involve his best people and Russians.

Drain the swamp? Was that even pretending to honesty?

That's what you're bummed about? That he didn't specify grocery lists or payment method? For years and years stores were supposed to ask for ID if somebody wrote a check. Now people just have PIN #s for debit or credit cards, but they still check ID to buy certain items. He could have just named any of the other massive pile of things that require ID, but he must be doing a good job if this is what people get upset over.

If I'm not mistaken, "drain the swamp" was supposed to mean not filling the cabinet with career politicians. I'm quite happy with the number of firings and departures as opposed to people whose seats are safe no matter what they do.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I agree with this, but I think that's part of the "game" they're running. A purposeful game. I'll use your "regressive tax cuts boost growth" example. Logically speaking, can it really be argued??? We are 100% factually correct on this, economically correct, but why is it still debatable for some? For all the crap many give them about being dumb or idiots, my personal belief is that they are incredibly smart. It takes true brains, intellect, to manipulate on this level and not massively be shamed by all. It took careful planning, and is highly unlikely to have been done on accident or by blunders.

There are two layers here. On climate change, check out @esdoornblad. Some people can get into the weeds on it, and they understand the issues, and other people just trust them. On a lot of issues, there's kind of a cloud battle that is invisible to people on the ground, who just trust that their cloud warriors are winning. "Well, I don't know about this science stuff, but for every smart, well-credential guy saying that it's real, there's another one who says it's bullshit, and the ones saying it's bullshit are my type of folks." The way the MSM covers stuff reinforces that kind of thinking, and the openly partisan media tilts it even more. And the thing is, for a while, the "cloud war" model actually worked (it's kind of what the Founders envisioned for America), in that there were actually people who were well-informed and well-intentioned who were legitimately arguing about the right course. But it was always vulnerable to exploitation by charlatans.

And note that I'm not saying that the "left" arguments are *inherently* superior (I am saying that in reality, the American mainstream left is still arguing mostly in good faith and the mainstream right is not). To an important degree, the argument about tax progressivity (or equality generally) comes down to preferences. But the argument about the real-world *impact* of regressive changes in the tax code does not. Likewise with environmental regs. There are real arguments to be had about short-term vs. long-term thinking and other tradeoffs. But there's no real argument about what is happening or why.

Lying itself from administrations, I feel the real argument is that they all do it, but why is one administration allowed to do it on a more blatant, consistent, near disrespectful level.

I think there are facts that any administration wants to play up or down, and they will use sneaky methods to accomplish that, but the complete disconnection from reality that we're seeing now is unprecedented. And FWIW, I think that this has been brewing. Romney's campaign struck me as particularly dishonest before this, though it wasn't nearly as bad.

 

[Not A Theist]

I think we've normalized lying in politics for a long enough time now to the extent that it is expected, that the right/wrong binary no longer functions along the lines of lie/truth, but rather on an axis of "tells the right lies the right way" vs "tells the wrong lies the wrong way." Or, tells lies politely and with an expected level of decorum and elegance.

In some cases, I actually think the people who are running to their fainting couches in outrage over Trump's bold faced lying who are the more eyebrow raising than their counterparts, with their plethoras of "Oh, it's different this time" rationalizations. There has been a culture of blatant lying in the American political climate for decades - but suddenly it has gone too far? I suppose it will all work out when we have another leader in a few years telling the right lies in the right way, all classy like, making us feel good about it, then we can turn off the outrage over the lying.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

That's what you're bummed about? That he didn't specify grocery lists or payment method?

Oh, I was unaware that he added all that nuance.