Who Is The Best Villain?

How many of you in the poll have actually seen all three movies?

Fess up.

I did.

But this guy is the GOAT.

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A Clock Work Orange is one of the few books I read after the fact because the movie was so good
 
All Alex was was a spoiled little sociopath who had to assault the helpless to feel powerful. He turned into a little bitch the moment he got sent to prison. At least Bill the Butcher and Bane would take on armed and dangerous heroes.
 
I like the passion. You're like at an eight, and I wonder if you can take it down to about a two.

The thing is. If he's the protagonist, he can't be the villain. We're meant to sympathize with Alex, aren't we? About how society has made him what he is and now tries to keep him tucked away, but in doing so fucks it all up? What about Django? Isn't he a cold-blooded murderer? William Munny? When I think of "villain," I think of adversary or antagonist to the protagonist, whose function is mainly to highlight the protagonist by dastardly means.

I'm not saying these aren't terrible villainous people. In fact I very much agree that if they were real I definitely would cross the street should I see them traipsing in my general direction.

As components to the story, I don't see them the same way as you do. I think there are purer, more evocative villains. Like Buffalo Bill. Hans Gruber. Noah Cross. Norman Stansfield. The Joker. Bad dudes, I think you will agree. And also serving a strong function of antagonism.

Whereas Bill the Butcher and Bane are almost CORRECT with their mindsets. Gotham HAS grown too decadent with its lies and whatever. God, what a messy film. Yay, America and keep out all the immigrants, and all that. They don't get off on the bad shit but rather engage in bad things as a means to an end.
It's called an antihero, and even Bullitt- of all people- in the Dexter thread didn't properly understand the basic construct of this archetype. I remember an entire recitation at NYU for a film class going roundtable on this subject, and a drama class touched on it, too. Basically, the simplest way to describe an antihero is that he is essentially a villainous character who assumes the role of the protagonist in traditional narrative structure. Certainly a villain may show heroic qualities, and certainly we are granted an insight into this character's life that evokes our sympathy, but that doesn't contradict the basic truth that these characters are themselves villains. Due to the nature of storytelling and narrative we are made to empathize with their desires and adversities, but ultimately the actions they take are morally, rationally indefensible. They are bad people. There is no justification for their decisions.
come off it, mate. alex was no worse than his chums, or his rivals. he was acting the way the people in his society acted. it's not like he was doing that in a setting based on anything we know. put his actions in context.
WTF are you talking about? Whether or not Alex's cohorts and enemies are also villains has no relevance to the determination of his own villainy. There's no context in that film in which he isn't a villain. Kubrick's larger philosophical point about the nature of freedom and authoritarianism being an even greater evil has nothing to do with whether or not Alex himself was an evil POS.
 
Bill the Butcher. Buffalo Bill. Little Bill Dagget. The Buffalo Bills. Just what does America have against Bills?

my god I hated this fuck so so much. When he killed Morgan Freeman I just wanted his head blown off. And Clint did just that.

Good job William Munny.

Wait a minute...Bill...William..THEY HAVE THE SAME NAME!!!
 
But this guy is the GOAT.

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Meh. I really didn't hate him that much. He was just another two-bit bully driven by baser desires. The villains that I truly hate are the ones who don't realize that they themselves are villainous. I don't think I've hated any characters in film history more than these two c*nts:

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"I could give a fuck about your moral conundrum you shit-headed meat sack."


--BtB
 
WTF are you talking about? Whether or not Alex's cohorts and enemies are also villains has no relevance to the determination of his own villainy. There's no context in that film in which he isn't a villain. Kubrick's larger philosophical point about the nature of freedom and authoritarianism being an even greater evil has nothing to do with whether or not Alex himself was an evil POS.

how is he a villain when he is forced to go through that behavior modification? or how about when he is getting accosted by billy after that guy becomes a cop? the scene where they save the woman from being raped? :icon_neut

you're being much too hard on the bloke. he was as run of the mill youth.
 
how is he a villain when he is forced to go through that behavior modification? or how about when he is getting accosted by billy after that guy becomes a cop? the scene where they save the woman from being raped? :icon_neut

you're being much too hard on the bloke. he was as run of the mill youth.
Do you apprehend a difference between sympathetic and justification?
Do you mean: do I comprehend a difference? KISS, TGF. Certainly I do. Now maybe one of you can explain to me how Alex's favorite pastime of raping and brutalizing random women is something I'm simply misunderstanding.
 
Meh. I really didn't hate him that much. He was just another two-bit bully driven by baser desires. The villains that I truly hate are the ones who don't realize that they themselves are villainous. I don't think I've hated any characters in film history more than these two c*nts:

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007MST_Marcia_Gay_Harden_007.jpg

it's too bad they didn't follow the ending in the book in one flew over the cuckoo's nest. i would have liked to see her with her top off.
 
Do you mean: do I comprehend a difference? KISS, TGF. Certainly I do. Now maybe one of you can explain to me how Alex's favorite pastime of raping and brutalizing random women is something I'm simply misunderstanding.

because it was a past-time for kids his age. he was just doing what any "normal" boy would do.
 
Do you mean: do I comprehend a difference? KISS, TGF. Certainly I do. Now maybe one of you can explain to me how Alex's favorite pastime of raping and brutalizing random women is something I'm simply misunderstanding.

Moral relativism brah; all the hipsters are doing it.
 
because it was a past-time for kids his age. he was just doing what any "normal" boy would do.
No he wasn't, nor would normalcy exculpate those activities as villainous.
 
Do you mean: do I comprehend a difference? KISS, TGF. Certainly I do. Now maybe one of you can explain to me how Alex's favorite pastime of raping and brutalizing random women is something I'm simply misunderstanding.
I don't think you're misunderstanding anything.

Except the word "grasp."

Do you grasp the difference?
 
No he wasn't, nor would normalcy exculpate those activities as villainous.

of course it would if you're applying the judgement based on his universe rather than our own. doing anything else would make him a deviant. the fact that billy boy was the leader of a gang, engaged in nefarious acts including rape and assault, then went on to become a police officer without ever changing his behavior goes to show that what they did wasn't a big deal. alex never even got in trouble for anything other than murdering that one woman with a giant phallus.
 
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