Who do you see as the real champ?

[blaseblase]

There's a lot of layers to these mega fights. It's never as black and white as it seems.

Like Ngannou said, It's the UFC's fault for the fight not happening.

Which is probably more true than anything.

It was very clear that the only reason Jones was moving to HW to begin with was a big payday. A huge pay bump.

Back then, the pandemic was in full swing, there were no live crowds and the UFC wasn't budging.

By the time that began to change and the UFC was finally in a position to play ball again, so to speak..Ngannou entered his own contract dispute and was looking to fight out the last bout on his contract. He also just had knee surgery.

Realistically, the only time the fight could've been made Is the end of the year / early 2023.

Jones was already back by this point, he'd clearly come to an agreement with the UFC to fight for the belt. As reported by Chael, Dana, the media, Ariel.

But, ultimately Frank decided not to sign.

The fight could have been made at any point after March 27, 2021. Jones was the one holding out.

 

[AstralPanda]

Why would his payday get cut in half? Since when is Stipe a PPV draw?

He's not a draw on his own. But he has name value, accolades and status as an all time HW great with which to build a fight with.

You can build a big card with Stipe as the B side. He's been around a long time, people know who he is.

Nobody knows who Tom is.

 

[CasualBot]

Francis obviously.

Aspirin-Tylenol is the interim.
Jones was retiring against Stipe, so the belt was pointless (if not defending).

Stipe beats Jones, and doesn't retire ... he is the Champ somehow.

We are all fine with it.

Francis did it.

 

[blaseblase]

He's not a draw on his own. But he has name value, accolades and status as an all time HW great with which to build a fight with.

You can build a big card with Stipe as the B side. He's been around a long time, people know who he is.

Nobody knows who Tom is.

Stipe's last ppv sold like shit

UFC 260 Earns Lowest Ratings of 2021 for Pay-Per-View Prelims

Though the event was headlined by a heavyweight championship bout, the UFC 260 prelims didn’t do a huge number in the ratings department.

www.sherdog.com

Tom is an unknown quantity as far as draw power, but UFC 295 was the 4th highest grossing event in UFC history and he's the first UK heavyweight champion. He's also got the fastest average fight time in UFC history with a 100% finish rate. He's got all the potential to be a big star, just gotta make the fights.

How exactly does Jones lose half of his income by fighting Aspinall?

 

[AstralPanda]

Stipe's last ppv sold like shit

UFC 260 Earns Lowest Ratings of 2021 for Pay-Per-View Prelims

Though the event was headlined by a heavyweight championship bout, the UFC 260 prelims didn’t do a huge number in the ratings department.

www.sherdog.com

Tom is an unknown quantity as far as draw power, but UFC 295 was the 4th highest grossing event in UFC history and he's the first UK heavyweight champion. He's also got the fastest average fight time in UFC history with a 100% finish rate. He's got all the potential to be a big star, just gotta make the fights.

How exactly does Jones lose half of his income by fighting Aspinall?

Again, Stipe isn't a big draw on his own. That's not the point. People know who he is. He's an all time great HW who's been around for a long time and been part of a lot of big fights. The casuals know who he is.

You can build a big card with him as the B side.

Nobody knows who Tom is. He's effectively a no name. It would be no different than fighting Dominick Reyes in terms of building a prize fight.

The gate of that card was as big as It was because It was a Jon Jones fight, prior to it being cancelled. It had nothing to do with Aspinall.

The hardcores know who he is, but there's still no name value, hype or numbers behind him.

 

[AstralPanda]

The fight could have been made at any point after March 27, 2021. Jones was the one holding out.

I can't take you seriously if you don't even read what I say.

The UFC wouldn't give Jones a pay bump because this all took place during the pandemic. Live crowds weren't back yet and the UFC clearly wasn't willing to put on a super fight / pay accordingly for it.

That negotiation took a while and didn't seem to be resolved until some time in 2022.

Any time super fights are on the table, there's a lot of moving parts. It's not as simple as you seem to think. Negotiations, especially ones which result in fighters getting what they want and feel like they deserve take time.

We seen the same thing with Frank's negotiations.

Ngannou himself was about to fight out the last bout on his contract going into the end of 2021, with no certainty as to whether he'd sign again.

After which, he had ACL surgery. Given that, they couldn't make the fight until Frank healed and had also signed a new contract.

Which he ultimately did not.

These things are not black and white. Ngannou was probably closer to the truth In saying It's the UFC's fault that the fight never happened.

But, at the same time.. Ngannou was offered 8 million to take the fight. He declined. His coach said if he lost, there was no protection and his salary would be cut down to less than half. Which to me calls Into question how much confidence they had In winning the fight.

And that's really it.

 

[blaseblase]

I can't take you seriously if you don't even read what I say.

The UFC wouldn't give Jones a pay bump because this all took place during the pandemic. Live crowds weren't back yet and the UFC clearly wasn't willing to put on a super fight / pay accordingly for it.

That negotiation took a while and didn't seem to be resolved until some time in 2022.

Any time super fights are on the table, there's a lot of moving parts. It's not as simple as you seem to think. Negotiations, especially ones which result in fighters getting what they want and feel like they deserve take time.

Ngannou himself was about to fight out the last bout on his contract going into the end of 2021, with no certainty as to whether he'd sign again.

After which, he had ACL surgery. Given that, they couldn't make the fight until Frank healed and had also signed a new contract.

Which he ultimately did not.

These things are not black and white. Ngannou was probably closer to the truth In saying It's the UFC's fault that the fight never happened. When fight's don't happen, fans always want to instantly claim duck, when In reality, fighters are pushing for paydays that they feel are deserved. In light of the anti trust lawsuit, you'd think there would be a little bit more understanding of fighters pushing against the system in such a way.

But you see an almost instantaneous cutting down of any fighter who doesn't immediately take whatever is offered by the UFC.

You're arguing that the UFC wouldn't give Jones a pay bump during the pandemic. That's simply not true. Even Conor was able to fight during the pandemic. Jones was asking for too much. He turned down 10 million. He wanted 30 million.

Jon Jones tells UFC $8-10 million ‘way too low’ for Francis Ngannou fight, Derrick Lewis responds

Jon Jones has offered an update on the current negotiations for a potential fight against new heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou while revealing that he told the UFC an $8 to $10 million payday is “way too low.”

www.mmafighting.com

Then fast forward to Ngannou leaving the UFC, Jones is suddenly willing to fight for less than 10 million.

Jones is the reason the fight didn't happen. He priced himself out in 2021, then changed his mind two years later after Ngannou's contract was over.

 

[blaseblase]

Again, Stipe isn't a big draw on his own. That's not the point. People know who he is. He's an all time great HW who's been around for a long time and been part of a lot of big fights. The casuals know who he is.

You can build a big card with him as the B side.

Nobody knows who Tom is. He's effectively a no name. It would be no different than fighting Dominick Reyes in terms of building a prize fight.

The gate of that card was as big as It was because It was a Jon Jones fight, prior to it being cancelled. It had nothing to do with Aspinall.

The hardcores know who he is, but there's still no name value, hype or numbers behind him.

You can call Stipe an all time great all you want but that doesn't change the fact that he was never a ppv draw. Even against Ngannou he wasn't drawing flies to shit.

Does anyone know who Gane is? Because his ppv with Jones did big numbers.

Jon Jones' Return At UFC 285 Was A Huge PPV Success

Jon Jones is back and the UFC brass couldn't be happier. After three years of being away from pro MMA competition, Jon 'Bones' Jones made his return to

www.si.com

Theres no reason Aspinall can't do the same. You still havent been able to explain how Jones loses half of a payday.

 

[AstralPanda]

You can call Stipe an all time great all you want but that doesn't change the fact that he was never a ppv draw. Even against Ngannou he wasn't drawing flies to shit.

Does anyone know who Gane is? Because his ppv with Jones did big numbers.

Jon Jones' Return At UFC 285 Was A Huge PPV Success

Jon Jones is back and the UFC brass couldn't be happier. After three years of being away from pro MMA competition, Jon 'Bones' Jones made his return to

www.si.com

Theres no reason Aspinall can't do the same. You still havent been able to explain how Jones loses half of a payday.

i don't think you understand how building a fight works if you don't understand why Stipe would be bigger for the general audience than Aspinall.

 

[MEAN357]

Jones.

Beating Pav is dope but dude was a plodding one dimensional hype job that got absolutely splattered by Econo-Reem.

Jones vs Aspinall will be fucking dope tho, old guard vs the young lion matchup

 

[AstralPanda]

Jon Jones tells UFC $8-10 million ‘way too low’ for Francis Ngannou fight, Derrick Lewis responds

Jon Jones has offered an update on the current negotiations for a potential fight against new heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou while revealing that he told the UFC an $8 to $10 million payday is “way too low.”

www.mmafighting.com

Then fast forward to Ngannou leaving the UFC, Jones is suddenly willing to fight for less than 10 million.

Jones is the reason the fight didn't happen. He priced himself out in 2021, then changed his mind two years later after Ngannou's contract was over.

Jones was already back before Ngannou left. The same sources that reported Ngannou as deep in negotiations with the UFC / uncertainty as to whether he'd resign, Chael, Ariel, Dana, the Media..were essentially saying Jones was back In summer 2022.

Jones said he was ready to fight back In summer 2022. He was even briefly linked to fight Stipe in December 2022. Before finally being linked to the march card In December 2022, which Is when he ended up fighting.

If Jones hadn't yet come to an agreement with the UFC, then we would be hearing the same thing as they were saying about Ngannou. That they were still in negotiations. But no, they were all saying he was back.

They also wouldn't have offered Ngannou the Jones fight for 8 million dollars.

Do you think they would offer this under the contingency that Jones MIGHT sign? No. He was back already. The fact that people actually believe this is peak delusion.


As to whether he priced himself out in 2021, are we seriously taking DANA WHITE's word at face value?

Who are you to say that a fighter is pricing themselves out. Are you an expert on what fighters should be making relative to the amount of income they bring In to the company?


30 million definitely sounds like a number you throw out during negotiations as a starting point and then meet in the middle. That doesn't mean you want 30 million. This is how negotiations work. Dana Is also someone who Is known for airing things like that out as a sort of strong arm negotiation tactic, using media pressure as a tool.


However, It's clear they did come to an agreement. And that agreement happened long before Ngannou actually left. They only went with Gane as a plan B after the fact.

Ngannou was offered the fight for 8 million. He turned it down. It's that simple. Anyone spinning it any other way is delusional and cannot be taken seriously.

Ngannou and his team said they turned the fight down. How it's possible to spin it and suggest Jones is the one who prevented the fight from happening, I really don't know.

 

[stormofshadow]

GSP at 170, and 185.

 

[storeybuckle]

Neither did Jones. But out of the two, Aspinall is the one willing to face all contenders while Jones is planning his exit from the sport.

The UFC has other plans for Bones. They call the big shots!

 

[blaseblase]

Jones was already back before Ngannou left. The same sources that reported Ngannou as deep in negotiations with the UFC / uncertainty as to whether he'd resign, Chael, Ariel, Dana, the Media..were essentially saying Jones was back In summer 2022.

Jones said he was ready to fight back In summer 2022. He was even briefly linked to fight Stipe in December 2022. Before finally being linked to the march card In December 2022, which Is when he ended up fighting.

If Jones hadn't yet come to an agreement with the UFC, then we would be hearing the same thing as they were saying about Ngannou. That they were still in negotiations. But no, they were all saying he was back.

They also wouldn't have offered Ngannou the Jones fight for 8 million dollars.

Do you think they would offer this under the contingency that Jones MIGHT sign? No. He was back already. The fact that people actually believe this is peak delusion.


As to whether he priced himself out in 2021, are we seriously taking DANA WHITE's word at face value?

Who are you to say that a fighter is pricing themselves out. Are you an expert on what fighters should be making relative to the amount of income they bring In to the company?


30 million definitely sounds like a number you throw out during negotiations as a starting point and then meet in the middle. That doesn't mean you want 30 million. This is how negotiations work. Dana Is also someone who Is known for airing things like that out as a sort of strong arm negotiation tactic, using media pressure as a tool.


However, It's clear they did come to an agreement. And that agreement happened long before Ngannou actually left. They only went with Gane as a plan B after the fact.

Ngannou was offered the fight for 8 million. He turned it down. It's that simple. Anyone spinning it any other way is delusional and cannot be taken seriously.

Ngannou and his team said they turned the fight down. How it's possible to spin it and suggest Jones is the one who prevented the fight from happening, I really don't know.

As has already been pointed out to you, Jones was ready to fight in 2021. He turned down 10 million and sat out for two years. So yeah, he is in fact the reason the fight didn't happen. That's the facts, Jones own tweets and 2 years of news reports back this up.

Dana White wants Jon Jones to call if he wants Francis Ngannou: ‘We can make that fight tonight’

Dana White says talk is one thing, but action is another. The action Jon Jones needs to take if he wants the Francis Ngannou fight is to pick up the phone.

finance.yahoo.com

Jon Jones tells UFC $8-10 million ‘way too low’ for Francis Ngannou fight, Derrick Lewis responds

Jon Jones has offered an update on the current negotiations for a potential fight against new heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou while revealing that he told the UFC an $8 to $10 million payday is “way too low.”

www.mmafighting.com

When both fighters were under contract, Jones was the one turning the fight down. Don't try to rewrite history. We all witnessed it.

 

[AstralPanda]

As has already been pointed out to you, Jones was ready to fight in 2021. He turned down 10 million and sat out for two years. So yeah, he is in fact the reason the fight didn't happen. That's the facts, Jones own tweets and 2 years of news reports back this up.

Dana White wants Jon Jones to call if he wants Francis Ngannou: ‘We can make that fight tonight’

Dana White says talk is one thing, but action is another. The action Jon Jones needs to take if he wants the Francis Ngannou fight is to pick up the phone.

finance.yahoo.com

Jon Jones tells UFC $8-10 million ‘way too low’ for Francis Ngannou fight, Derrick Lewis responds

Jon Jones has offered an update on the current negotiations for a potential fight against new heavyweight champion Francis Ngannou while revealing that he told the UFC an $8 to $10 million payday is “way too low.”

www.mmafighting.com

When both fighters were under contract, Jones was the one turning the fight down. Don't try to rewrite history. We all witnessed it.

Doesn't seem like you're smart enough to actually read what I've written and understand the points being made which refute your overly simplistic narrative.

Contract negotiations are a very real thing. Jones, more than anyone should understand his worth, value to the company and push for a bigger payday. Especially moving up to HW and fighting for a second belt.

Are you saying that he should've just sucked It up and accepted whatever the UFC offered him, without pushing for more? and that If he didn't do so, it means he ducked the fight?

People like you are the same types who will attack the UFC for underpaying fighters as well. While at the same time attack fighters for pushing against the corrupt system who pays a fraction of the percentages of boxing and other sports. Double standards.

Eventually, Jones did come to an agreement with the UFC though.

And when the UFC was finally In a position where the fight could be made, Ngannou decided not to sign the contract and moved on to greener pastures.

That's really the end of the discussion.

Your entire argument Is that Jones should've just signed a lesser contract to fight Ngannou and because he didn't do so back in 2021, he ducked.

That's not how ducking works. This is a business and every fighter should push for the maximum potential of what they're worth. Especially if you're one of the few stars the UFC has left. Why would they not?

Like Ngannou said, the UFC is to blame more than anyone for the fight not happening. If they'd met in the middle and paid back in 2021, perhaps the fight would've happened.

But that's the reality of negotiations.

but when It comes down to it, Ngannou was offered 8 mil to take the fight. His own words. And he declined. His coach said if he lost that fight, there was no protection and he would make much less for every remaining fight on the contract. Which is a big reason they didn't sign the contract. That calls into question the level of confidence they had In Ngannou winning against Jones as well.

 

[Fight Professor]

Neither did Jones. But out of the two, Aspinall is the one willing to face all contenders while Jones is planning his exit from the sport.

Aspinall has lost to Blaydes and has not faced Gane or Almeida. Both of them have 1 win over a top contender.

 

[blaseblase]

Doesn't seem like you're smart enough to actually read what I've written and understand the points being made which refute your overly simplistic narrative.

Contract negotiations are a very real thing. Jones, more than anyone should understand his worth, value to the company and push for a bigger payday. Especially moving up to HW and fighting for a second belt.

Are you saying that he should've just sucked It up and accepted whatever the UFC offered him, without pushing for more? and that If he didn't do so, it means he ducked the fight?

People like you are the same types who will attack the UFC for underpaying fighters as well. Double standards.

Eventually, Jones did come to an agreement with the UFC though.

And when the UFC was finally In a position where the fight could be made, Ngannou decided not to sign the contract and moved on to greener pastures.

That's really the end of the discussion.

Your entire argument Is that Jones should've just signed a lesser contract to fight Ngannou and because he didn't do so back in 2021, he ducked.

That's not how ducking works. This is a business and every fighter should push for the maximum potential of what they're worth. Especially if you're one of the few stars the UFC has left. Why would they not?

But he did end up signing a lesser contract. Estimates are he earned 7 million for beating Gane, less than the 10 million he turned down two years prior.

Jon Jones earned a massive, seven-figure purse for his UFC 285 bout

Jon Jones pocketed a big purse for his UFC return.

www.sportbible.com

So he turned down the fight for a higher amount when both he and Ngannou were under contract, then agreed to a lesser contract two years later when it was too late to make the fight. Jones is the reason the fight didn't happen. Stop trying to change the narrative.

 

[blaseblase]

Aspinall has lost to Blaydes and has not faced Gane or Almeida. Both of them have 1 win over a top contender.

He injured his knee, you're better than this. Almeida just got into the top 10 and definitely doesn't have a win over a top contender. Gane is 0-2 in title fights. Probably will get another shot though.

 

[Young Calf Kick]

This lineal shit needs to end. Why does nobody talk about 125 lineal champ Cejudo. Conor at 145. Khabib at 155. GSP at 170, and 185. Jones at 205. Amanda at 135, and 145.

If you clowns are going to go on about Ngannou. Then do it for every division where the “real champ” is NOT the person with the belt right now.

It’s the lamest thing ever. The person with the belt now is the champion. But 100% Jones is ducking the number 1 contender. If the UFC didn’t control the rankings. Stipe would not even be ranked anymore.

But knock off this Ngannou bullshit. It’s the lamest thing ever. Or start calling anybody holding the belts now that aren’t the “lineal champs” fake champs, or whatever else you are calling Jones.

He’s a lowlife cheater. But he is the HW champion. Because the UFC wants him as the HW champion.

I love how every time Ngannou is mentioned in a thread @TempleoftheDog just goes

 

[AstralPanda]

But he did end up signing a lesser contract. Estimates are he earned 7 million for beating Gane, less than the 10 million he turned down two years prior.

Jon Jones earned a massive, seven-figure purse for his UFC 285 bout

Jon Jones pocketed a big purse for his UFC return.

www.sportbible.com

So he turned down the fight for a higher amount when both he and Ngannou were under contract, then agreed to a lesser contract two years later when it was too late to make the fight. Jones is the reason the fight didn't happen. Stop trying to change the narrative.

Jones had already come to an agreement before Ngannou left. He was already signed. What part of that don't you understand?

Those numbers don't mean anything because they don't take into account ppv points, which is likely the biggest factor of a contract and negotiations.


We don't know what Jones actually made because those numbers aren't reported. It's all just hearsay from unreliable sources.

Whatever Jones signed for, he was happy with. Meaning that the UFC did meet him in the middle.

The predominant reason Jones moved to HW to begin with was a big payday. To fight for a second belt. So the idea he would just willfully accept a low payday, after such long, drawn out negotiations would be pretty irrational.


I'm not trying to change any narrative.

The reality is that Ngannou was offered the Jones fight for 8 million and he turned it down. There is no way anyone can conceivably spin this around and pin it on Jones without being utterly delusional.


Could Jones have taken the fight for a lower payday back in 2021? Maybe. But that's saying we should just expect fighters to take fights and not give a shit about fighting for their worth. Regardless of how big of a star they are.


Which is absurd.