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Who Crossfits?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by KAYNE, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. MikeMartial Black Belt

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    It's worth checking out. Like others have stated here, not all Crossfit affiliates are built the same, and a lot depends on the owner/coaches background. With a history of powerlifting or Oly lifting, you may have just found a solid coach.
     
  2. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    I do.

    And, can say without a doubt its the best MMA strength and conditioning program. I was able to quickly ascertain that most people talking badly about Crossfit have never ever done it for any substantial period of time (at least 4 weeks) If they had they would realize the effectivness.

    I wasn't initially a believer myself, but my friend Jason (a San Diego based SEAL team member) convinced me to give it a try. Since he was the baddest MFer at our dogo I decided to give it a try. Now, this was a few years before I found mma... I first Crossfited successfully for Rugby (played loose foward for marist albion in NZ) and again when I began submission wrestling. Not to brag, but to give crossfit a little credibility I was the MVP of our team in NZ and won the first and only submission wrestling tournament I've entered, THE GRACIE OPEN (2007 202lb no-gi beginner division) on sheer fitness and athleticism alone.

    Let me say emphtatically, that if you are a Crossfit badass 95% of mere "normal" athletes won't be able to keep up. In the last year I've purchased JC Santana's "S&C for the Modern Gladiator." The book has sooooo much good info and I've modified about 20% of my Crossfit excercises to make them slightly more mma specific. However, after using his exact periodization prescriptions for 10 wks I felt that I actually was going backwards. While I did lose a couple lbs of bodyfat, my strength and fitness were not the same as before starting this new program and giving up my Crossfit workouts. I would like to post a list of reasons why I feel Crossfit is so effective. However, before I share my thoughts, please consider the empiric evidence. Crossfit.com is full of endorsements from people who rely on their fitness for their lives and careers. Special operations soldiers, SWAT team members, and firefighters have given endorsement after endorsement after endorsement on the Crossfi web site. Not only that, but Camp Pendelton has built a crossfit styled course for their Force Recon teams.... for those that don't know... that's the Marine Corp equivilant to the Navy SEALs.

    So now that you know what a big Crossfit fan I am let me give you the list of reasons it works great for MMA and all sports that require a LARGE level of General Physical Preparedness. I don't feel that Crossfit is good for Football, Track etc... as there is too much emphasis on only the shortest term energy system and extra body weight can often be considered beneficial for sports like football. However, for MMA, wrestling and sports that have a similliar energy system requirements and especially those that reward strength per pound of body weight.... I think it's the best.


    Reasons Crossfit kicks ass

    1)All excercises are performed at maximum intensity. Much like the pace of a fight, Crossfit stimulates the severe physiological stress that occurs during a fight or submission wrestling match. Of course you must rest to get the proper adaption from the stimulus... adequate rest is CRITICAL if you wish to train at maximum intensity. It is not uncommon for my training partner and I throwup or come damn close on the **** bolic conditioning days.

    2) It alternates between low end strength workouts (e.g. 7 sets three reps deadlift), **** bolic conditioning e.g

    "Fight Gone Bad!"
    (BJ Penn named this workout)

    Three rounds of:One minute rest after all excercises performed 1 minute each. 5 min work 1 min rest
    Wall-ball, 20 pound ball, 10 ft target (Reps)
    Sumo deadlift high-pull, 75 pounds (Reps)
    Box Jump, 20" box (Reps)
    Push-press, 75 pounds (Reps)
    Row (Calories)
    Total Score: All rounds numbers added together.


    and a little bit of Aerobic long term energy training e.g.

    Run 10K


    As any educated athlete knows the transfer from the short term energy systems to the long term is far far greater than vice versa.

    3) The program offers a great deal of randomness. Now, naysayers would argue that randomness is inferior to Sport Specific Training. In some instances (certain sports I would agree). However, what sport is more random and requires greater athleticism than any other.... you guessed it MMA. The combination of power, muscular endurance, flexability, aerobic capacity (think 5 round wars) and technique is unparelled. In an MMA fight you mind end up kickboxing the whole fight, grappling the whole fight, clinching the whole fight or any RANDOM combination of the above. The point is you must honor the old fighter's adage of being prepared for the fight to go anywhere. Making sure you are as athetlically prepared for anything is key. After all, look what a athletically superior Brock Lesnar was able to do to a technically superior Coutoure.

    4) Scalability: While the workouts are presented in a very spartan fashion, there are plenty of links to allow logical changing of poundages and volume.

    5) The site is free and offers a tremendous amount of information on various excercises. This is a great resource even if are not doing Crossfit

    6)Its a guerilla grass root movement (much like Sherdog) and the site offers the opportunity to get motivation, e-instructionals and a chance for comparing relative fitness with people from around the world.

    7) There is an entire MMA section, called CrossPit, after John Hacklemans' The Pit. Fellow athletes and fighters can find resources and see how people like Chuck Lidell, BJ Penn, and Gina Carano do with the workouts.

    Allow me to apologize for the spelling and grammar. I am very sick (worst head cold in a few years) and I'm kinda stupid from sudafed.

    Hope this post causes some of you to try Crossfit and then judge it objectively.

    PS Make sure to mix Crossfit in SLOWLY with your combat sports training. Don't be afraid to skip workouts if you have to for up to the first two or three months. Also make sure your nutrition and supplementation is good.... because a day of Crossfit and MMA will kick ANYONE's ass.
     
  3. Tosa Red Belt

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    I'm glad that you find crossfit beneficial . . . But

    Well preforming at a high intensity is good, doing it All the time isn't beneficial. Not every
    bit of every workout has to be balls to the wall, I'm going to puke type thing

    This isn't however unique to crossfit. And many people find it more beneficial to have their conditioning workouts structured differently.

    Randomness isn't a good thing. Training different qualities with variety is good, randomness not so much. I'm not going to throw dice to decide a workout.

    There's more to Scalability than poundages and volume. To suggest that you can make one workout suitable for everyone just by changing weight and volume is to simplistic.

    So does any number of other sites. I'll read anything good, and I try different things and I incorporate what I thinks good. But in this regard Crossfit is nothing special.

     
  4. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    'm glad that you find crossfit beneficial . . . But

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HumboldtMMA
    1)All excercises are performed at maximum intensity. Much like the pace of a fight, Crossfit stimulates the severe physiological stress that occurs during a fight or submission wrestling match. Of course you must rest to get the proper adaption from the stimulus... adequate rest is CRITICAL if you wish to train at maximum intensity. It is not uncommon for my training partner and I throwup or come damn close on the **** bolic conditioning days.

    Well preforming at a high intensity is good, doing it All the time isn't beneficial. Not every
    bit of every workout has to be balls to the wall, I'm going to puke type thing


    You don't. If you read crossfit you'll see that the warm-up involves things like overhead squats, pullups, etc... done at low intensity. Also, in order to train short term energy systems to respond, you must train at a proper intensity. However, obviously not all your combat training in done at full speed... in fact quite the opposite.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HumboldtMMA
    2) It alternates between low end strength workouts (e.g. 7 sets three reps deadlift), **** bolic conditioning e.g.

    "Fight Gone Bad!"
    (BJ Penn named this workout)

    Three rounds of:One minute rest after all excercises performed 1 minute each. 5 min work 1 min rest
    Wall-ball, 20 pound ball, 10 ft target (Reps)
    Sumo deadlift high-pull, 75 pounds (Reps)
    Box Jump, 20" box (Reps)
    Push-press, 75 pounds (Reps)
    Row (Calories)
    Total Score: All rounds numbers added together.


    and a little bit of Aerobic long term energy training e.g.

    Run 10K


    As any educated athlete knows the transfer from the short term energy systems to the long term is far far greater than vice versa.

    This isn't however unique to crossfit. And many people find it more beneficial to have their conditioning workouts structured differently.

    Different how? And what is rational behind this "different" approach. Also, what other systems combine bolic conditioning power and aerobic in various workouts throughout the week?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HumboldtMMA
    3) The program offers a great deal of randomness. Now, naysayers would argue that randomness is inferior to Sport Specific Training. In some instances (certain sports I would agree). However, what sport is more random and requires greater athleticism than any other.... you guessed it MMA. The combination of power, muscular endurance, flexability, aerobic capacity (think 5 round wars) and technique is unparelled. In an MMA fight you mind end up kickboxing the whole fight, grappling the whole fight, clinching the whole fight or any RANDOM combination of the above. The point is you must honor the old fighter's adage of being prepared for the fight to go anywhere. Making sure you are as athetlically prepared for anything is key. After all, look what a athletically superior Brock Lesnar was able to do to a technically superior Coutoure.

    Randomness isn't a good thing. Training different qualities with variety is good, randomness not so much. I'm not going to throw dice to decide a workout.

    The dice analogy makes little sense... to me anyway. Randomness is used to overcome plateaus and keep an athlete on his toes. Remember, the whole reason they invented periodiztion was to get adaption by CHANGING the STIMULUS

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HumboldtMMA
    4) Scalability: While the workouts are presented in a very spartan fashion, there are plenty of links to allow logical changing of poundages and volume.

    There's more to Scalability than poundages and volume. To suggest that you can make one workout suitable for everyone just by changing weight and volume is to simplistic.

    You can. Poundages and Volume are the TWO most important factors. You can also make the excercise more less difficult by adding or subtracting stability. E.g Smith Machine< Bench< Dumbbel l< One-arm plyo pushups Also, refer to authors like Paul Check to understand why man has basic movements we've been using since we were early Primates. Think pushing/pulling extension and flexion along all planes.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HumboldtMMA
    5) The site is free and offers a tremendous amount of information on various excercises. This is a great resource even if are not doing Crossfit

    So does any number of other sites. I'll read anything good, and I try different things and I incorporate what I thinks good. But in this regard Crossfit is nothing special.

    Really? Name me a couple sites with more free videos on Olympic lifting and technique. Every variation on power and oly lifts is there. Literally hundreds. Don't forget the gymnastics excercises.

     
  5. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    Periodization was not invented to keep getting adaptation by changing the stimulus, your understanding is WAY off.

    Periodization was developed as a way to program around competitions so that the athlete would be at their highest performance level during their competition. It relies on STRUCTURED manipulations in volume and intensity based on specific adaptation principles of human physiology and the timing of events.

    In no way, shape, or form does CrossFit resemble any sort of periodization model, in fact it is in many ways the antithesis of what periodization is all about.

    Linking CrossFit to periodization or even mentioning them in the same sentence is an insult to what periodization is. Glassman clearly ZERO understanding in periodization or many other training principles.

    You can learn a lot from CrossFit, Juan Carlos Santana, and Paul Chek....about marketing. For training information you would be best to look elsewhere to people who actually understand training like Verkhoshansky, Zatsiorsky, Bosco, Viru, etc.
     
  6. Tosa Red Belt

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    The key bit there is proper intensity. The proper intensity for training varies. One day a may do an easy run, another I may be running intervals up hill. Having lower intesity workouts can be valuable as well.

    Personally, for conditioning I like the rosstraining stuff far better, or hill sprints, intervals, heavy bag work. I have a strong preference to keep strength & Power workouts seperate from conditioning.
    It doesn't have to be a "system".

    I think it makes great sense, from what I've seen Crossfit workouts seem random with no overall plan. And personally I wouldn't use randomness to overcome plateus, I would use change. Let's say for example I've platued on my squat. I could just do random workouts to try and improve how much weight I can squat Or I could take a look I what my weak link is and work on that, I take a week or two and deload, I could change my reps, sets, rest, frequency ect. But I would do it with some kind of rationale, not randomly.

    Yes, but most people not as physically capable, or well rounded as chimpanzees. Alot of people would be better off instead of scaling a premade workout so they can complete it doing a workout that fit what they need to improve.

    It doesn't have to be any one site. The internet is a big place, lots of good stuff. Sure crossfit has good videos, but so does youtube. What crossfit doesn't have is an in depth explanation of the rationale behind the workouts. By contrast, if I say try a Smolov Squat cycle I know more or less why each workout is the way it is.

    No, it's fairly obvious that I don't train using crossfit. As for my goals, right now I'd say increasing my squat primarily, with some gains in other lifts, while maintaing my conditioning. So if I want to focus on my squating more weight are you really going to tell me that Crossfit is the best way?

    130$ a month is not in my mind reasonable. Especially considering that I pay at most 15$ a
    month to go to my gym.

    As for the dig about Glassman being fat. Okay, so I shouldn't judge by apearance. But the man is out of shape and hasn't done a WOD in years. I prefer it when someone who's trying to sell something using it themselves.

    Because that's assuming that just because "Chuck and BJ and Gina" do it that it's the most beneficial thing for me to do. Different people benefit more by training to suit them not by doing a workout just because BJ penn did it. Watch the some videos of BJ Penn lifting weights and you should know what I mean.

    Actually what got the actors for 300 ripped was gym jones run by Mark Twight. Also, Gerard Butler did some body building type workouts in addition to his training there.

    And the issue is that they take concepts and then mash them together in dumb ways. Do power cleans for 21,15,9 reps? What's the reasoning behind that?
     
  7. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    Actually, periodization is totally possible with Crossfit. Like any other routine, all you have to do is manipulate the variables, volume, weight, and time.

    As for disparaging Juan Carlos Santana, you might want to look at the fighters he's trained including Mat Brown (WEC champ) Jorge Rivera and all the other badasses on American Top Team Probably one of the TOP TWO TEAMS in the WORLD. Paul Check happens to be a personal friend and an incredibly smart person. Look at his work with Professional Rugby Super 8 teams, the US Army Boxing and various Motocross champs.

    Just because you rattle of names of several authors and professors that do very technical work does not mean they are superior to people that are more well known. Things like Bosco's vibration work and Verkhoshansky's work on bio-mechanics are interesting reads but I put more stock in those doing cutting edge work and also personally training world champions. Theory+Practice =perfection.

    I've had a copy of Siff's SuperTraining since I've been 18 (found it on a college trip to SF in a second hand bookstore). I know that a first glance Crossfit seems to lack any periodization, but if you read the material it is entirely possible to apply periodization and crossfit at the same time.

    You are correct about periodization primary goal is to peak at a certain time. I mispook (typed?). It is simply a secondary function and extreme benefit that periodization allows overcoming plateus by changing stimulus.
     
  8. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    One last point about Crossfit. The central premise is that it is secondary to your sport or sports. And if you do combat sports don't be afraid to change those thrusters to double leg pickups or rowing to heavy bag work etc
     
  9. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    Actually what got the actors for 300 ripped was gym jones run by Mark Twight. Also, Gerard Butler did some body building type workouts in addition to his training there.

    Ummm... not only is it on the behind the scenes special for 300, but you can google it. There does seem to be some internet bs confusion with the 300 workout, with was just one ****bolic workout (Crossfit wod) that the actors did. Also, I wouldn't doubt butler did some bodybuilder bs to look bigger... he seemed noticeably larger than any other spartan.

    And the issue is that they take concepts and then mash them together in dumb ways. Do power cleans for 21,15,9 reps? What's the reasoning behind that?

    Here is a link to the first article anyone interested in crossfit should read. Please take a look and we can debate its merits.

    http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ-trial.pdf
     
  10. Tosa Red Belt

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    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/the_truth_about_crossfit

    You don't have to read the entire article, but I think that it's well witten and worthwhile. It also clearly states that the actors for 300 went to Gym Jones.

    Certainly it does have alot of good information, but I also have some issues with it. It talks about using gymnastic, weightlifting and powerlifting exercises. However crossfit is just borrowing the particular exercises but not the way they're trained , which is just as important.

    It's not that I have an issue with crossfit. BUt I also think that it's got its' flaws and shortcomings.
    It's not the best way for everyone to reach their goals. IF it works for someone then that's good for them, but if someone acheives their goals by training differently then that's just as good.
     
  11. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    I like T-Nation as a resource. It really bugged me that Charles Poliquin, a man I've met and shared a couple meals with was on T-Nation radio the other day disparaging Crossfit and yet in the same breath admitting he had never really looked at any of their material. Come'on Charles! you're the man, but that's just ignorance.

    When I clicked on the link a got directed to a number of crossfit subsections. Is it the "Truth about Crossfit" article you are referring to?
     
  12. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    Ahh. Now I understand the nature of the beef between T-nation and Crossfit. I do agree Glassman can be an asshole in a drill sergeant type way. And I DO NOT agree with his politics. However, I think its great he offered up a female crossfitter to challene a male. LOL

    From T-Nation article about Crossfit founder Glassman

    Glassman is frequently confrontational to those who question his protocols. A couple of years back, TC wrote the following snarky lines in one of his Atomic Dog columns:

    "...and screw Crossfit and their like. What, you have so little imagination that you need a website for housewives and pampered stockbrokers to give you your daily, completely arbitrary workout?

    Friday's workout:

    Run 400 meters

    Do 20 push-ups

    Dance like a cast member of the Broadway musical Cats for 15 minutes

    That's a workout! You're all winners!

    Jesus!"

    In retaliation, Glassman publically challenged to a $10,000 competition against a female CrossFit athlete. When he received no reply, he called TC a "T-Nation clown."
     
  13. Sonnyk Orange Belt

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    how many of your gyms (mma/bjj/boxing) use different x-fit circuits
     
  14. Vedic Purple Belt

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    You are way behind the times man, that was a long time ago, if not years ago.
     
  15. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    Yes. I said " I know understand" Not breaking news. But humorous to me and relevant since the previous poster referred me to the article and I learned something new about the origins of the current hostility. I still find it AWESOME that Glassman is confident one of his females can beat TC
     
  16. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Ya, because he can't do any of the workouts himself, and has a "dickie do" sure bravo to the "fitness" pioneer
     
  17. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    LOL at the response. That's like Warren Sapp fighting Helio Gracie. Clearly Helio must know nothing since he is no longer competitive and couldn't handle someone with no combat backround in a real fight like Warren.

    Just like in feudal china (or early UFC to some extent) the various styles put for their best student, not the eldest master or trainer. This hypothetically determines the best style, since the students are not hindered by age and are using the techniques passed on by the masters.
     
  18. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Not even comparable. Glassman can't even perform a pull up for hells sake. Speaks of how great his thoery is, then yet can't apply it. I will stick to myself, Ross, robb, Greg and others who can walk the walk, not sit back point fingers and get fatter doing it.

    Funny thing is I bet I could beat your time on any crossfit workout, or numbers on the big three, yet I don't ever follow crossfit, wonder why that is.

    But you are obviously a crossfit nuthugger, good for you. You won't make many friends here with it.
     
  19. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    My god... you sound like a child. Half of Ross's stuff is taken from Crossfit.... if you'd been watching both for years you would realize this. Secondly,you don't even know who I am or my weight or size or athletic accomplishments, yet you are calling me out on the internet?? LOL freaking LOL at internet toughness. Based on your ignorant bragadishio I would reckon insecurity is probably a mainstay in your life.

    "Funny thing is I bet I could beat your time on any crossfit workout, or numbers on the big three, yet I don't ever follow crossfit, wonder why that is."

    Freaking hillarity ^^^^. Nah nah nah. I claim physical superiority from 9000 miles away and I'm not gonna tell you how I do..... Do you realize how funny you sound?
     
  20. HumboldtMMA Orange Belt

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    "But you are obviously a crossfit nuthugger, good for you. You won't make many friends here with it."


    Seriously? You're on Sherdog to make friends?
     

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