Where do you rank Mir and Lesnar amongst Heavyweights?

[MillingMeSoftly]

If Stipe beats Jones, I think that elevates his status

Good arguments and I like your points, but you can't criticize him for his opponents being old while, simultaneously criticizing him for his opponents being "green"

I think stipe fought whoever they asked him to
Beating ngannou was impressive. Everybody thought he was gonna lose.

Also, if he beats Jones, I think you need to put him up there in the conversation

 

[Pequeño Corey]

He's top 10 S tier in the sport. Top 10 goat. I'm not his huge fan but he is. He walked trough Volkan. Beat Rumble twice. Beat Stipe. His career isnelite S tier. At HW y not that many wins, but more than Brock. So Jon is the best HW and champ of 1 win ? DC is top 5 at HW probably at least top 10.

Yes, better than Brock. But Brock is not S tier, either.

DC is an S tier LHW.

He doesn’t have the resume at HW to be considered S tier. He’s more a 10-15 type guy. S tier would be Fedor, Stipe, and Nog.

Anything else is nonsense. Not even sure what you mean by ”S tier in the sport”. It sounds like you’re trying to make up a new category for “champ champs”. No
one cares that DC killed himself to make LHW so he didn’t have to fight Cane. That’s where he belonged. Very good HW. Not S tier tho.

 

[wannabetoughguy]

Damn awesome topic. My big brother was a huge pro wrestling fan and we shared a home together during this time before the wives and kids came along.

Won't be the best assessment as what little I've read seem to be some solid ass posts, but both had great careers and belong in the UFC hall of Fame for their contributions. What could've been had Brock entered the sport earlier or if Mir never had that motorcycle accident.

Too bad we never got a rubber match. Probably wasn't warranted after that scary GnP, but I would have liked to see one more go. Each had dominant, shocking, and amazing wins over each other.

Not the highest ranking or best HWs, but cannot take anything away from either man. Both men fought on passed their best, surgery, and losses. Like Fedor, for me, the losses don't take away from the career just add to the legend.

I can't at the moment rank Mir higher than Lesnar or vice versa. The two have different careers and the legends crossed paths intertwining them in history together. Like Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Duran I personally can't rank one man higher than the other unless we are specifically talking weight class and title defenses.

Said a lot without too much thought into it, probably said so earlier, but both men had great careers with no stone left unturned. Definitely more amazed by what Brock was able to accomplish with such little experience, sickness, and time. Mir appeared to be out of shape towards the end, but the heart and fighting spirit was always there.

Never gonna forget that ground and pound at UFC 100 I believe it was. Rogan called those hands lunch boxes. More like lunch boxes full of rocks and sand. Brock executed brilliantly not sure if I'm more impressed by the perfect fight he fought in the rematch or the comeback against Carwin who was as big, strong, powerful, and clean of puncher at HW I've seen up until that point.

Super proud of both, but more impressed by Brock with the reasons presented. Looking back I greatly miss that era and appreciate that time in my life.

 

[wannabetoughguy]

If Stipe beats Jones, I think that elevates his status

Good arguments and I like your points, but you can't criticize him for his opponents being old while, simultaneously criticizing him for his opponents being "green"

I think stipe fought whoever they asked him to
Beating ngannou was impressive. Everybody thought he was gonna lose.

Also, if he beats Jones, I think you need to put him up there in the conversation

I hope Stipe does it and call me crazy, but feel like he should be able to. Bigger man, clean puncher, good sprawl, but the chin has diminished. Years later and passed his best, he's one sprawl and punch away from winning.

Stipe v Lesnar is a dream fight that would take some time for me to predict. Could Lesnar take him down? Could Stipe rise? Could he land those body shots and would Lesnar succumb? Lesnar was thicker, but two big boys. Carwin v Stipe would be something else too. Forgive me if Carwin KO'd him early on, but I doubt those two ever fought.

 

[markantony20]

Brock did pretty well for someone who was basically a part time fighter.

Not to disrespect his dedication to training or anything but it was definitely not his life aspirations at least to my eye

 

[NoSmilez]

Level of fighter they aren't too far apart, I still think Nog is better. But you can't really base a goat ranking off that, it's more about accomplishments.

It's not a GOAT tier list. Look at the original post.

They are the same level of fighter.

 

[Trabaho]

Yes, better than Brock. But Brock is not S tier, either.

DC is an S tier LHW.

He doesn’t have the resume at HW to be considered S tier. He’s more a 10-15 type guy. S tier would be Fedor, Stipe, and Nog.

Anything else is nonsense. Not even sure what you mean by ”S tier in the sport”. It sounds like you’re trying to make up a new category for “champ champs”. No
one cares that DC killed himself to make LHW so he didn’t have to fight Cane. That’s where he belonged. Very good HW. Not S tier tho.

You made up categories which only exist in fandom

Who won the Strikeforce GP with had both Fedor and DC in it

Big Nog was half a legend half a punching bag

 

[Megatronlee]

Yeah Brocks top of the food chain. Zero REAL losses. Million bucks on the ground.

A version of a stand up that’s potent enough


Man I miss him

 

[MrJPayne]

As much as ppl like to shit on Brock, tell me 10 fighters you can confidentially pick over pre surgery prime Brock.

If Brock gets you down it’s big trouble.

 

[filthybliss]

As much as ppl like to shit on Brock, tell me 10 fighters you can confidentially pick over pre surgery prime Brock.

If Brock gets you down it’s big trouble.

Fedor, Big Nog, Reem, Cain, Stipe, DC, Ngannou, Jones, Werdum, and Aspinall. There are guys like Barnett, Couture,Rizzo and Sylvia that have a chance in their prime condition.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think in terms of acollades at HW you have Fedor and Nog at one and two personally then a group of JDS, Werdum, Stipe, Cain and maybe Barnett following on followed by another group of Francis, Reem, Randy, Sylvia, Arlovski, Mir, Cormier.

How you rank within those groups depends more on how you value different aspects.

 

[MrJPayne]

Fedor, Big Nog, Reem, Cain, Stipe, DC, Ngannou, Jones, Werdum, and Aspinall. There are guys like Barnett, Couture,Rizzo and Sylvia that have a chance in their prime condition.

Brock would be a +750 favorite against Rizzo and Sylvia in his prime.

And honestly I don’t think JJ guys like Nog or Werdum has a chance. And Fedor is the goat yes, but he was way too small for Brock imo, do you see Fedor armbarring Brock?

Stylistically Barnett and Jon Jones would have been awesome to watch.

Edit- Let’s see how Aspinall fares vs Blahdes first

 

[filthybliss]

Brock would be a +750 favorite against Rizzo and Sylvia in his prime.

And honestly I don’t think JJ guys like Nog or Werdum has a chance. And Fedor is the goat yes, but he was way too small for Brock imo, do you see Fedor armbarring Brock?

Stylistically Barnett and Jon Jones would have been awesome to watch.

I see Fedor knocking Brock's socks off. He has got Brock beat in striking and his sambo cancels out Brock's wrestling in a way.

But yeah, Brock has a lot of unturned pages. He looks physically monstrous but Cain made light work outta him (not saying Cain ain't great, he is, just saying looks are not everything). I think Nog and Werdum have him beat in the striking exchange. He would need to ram in fast if he wanted to stuff them down but I honestly don't see that happening.

But yeah, Brock probably mauls those old school heavyweights, the size difference is too much. Old Randy was able to go a couple rounds with him so who knows.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Damn awesome topic. My big brother was a huge pro wrestling fan and we shared a home together during this time before the wives and kids came along.

Won't be the best assessment as what little I've read seem to be some solid ass posts, but both had great careers and belong in the UFC hall of Fame for their contributions. What could've been had Brock entered the sport earlier or if Mir never had that motorcycle accident.

Too bad we never got a rubber match. Probably wasn't warranted after that scary GnP, but I would have liked to see one more go. Each had dominant, shocking, and amazing wins over each other.

Not the highest ranking or best HWs, but cannot take anything away from either man. Both men fought on passed their best, surgery, and losses. Like Fedor, for me, the losses don't take away from the career just add to the legend.

I can't at the moment rank Mir higher than Lesnar or vice versa. The two have different careers and the legends crossed paths intertwining them in history together. Like Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Duran I personally can't rank one man higher than the other unless we are specifically talking weight class and title defenses.

Said a lot without too much thought into it, probably said so earlier, but both men had great careers with no stone left unturned. Definitely more amazed by what Brock was able to accomplish with such little experience, sickness, and time. Mir appeared to be out of shape towards the end, but the heart and fighting spirit was always there.

Never gonna forget that ground and pound at UFC 100 I believe it was. Rogan called those hands lunch boxes. More like lunch boxes full of rocks and sand. Brock executed brilliantly not sure if I'm more impressed by the perfect fight he fought in the rematch or the comeback against Carwin who was as big, strong, powerful, and clean of puncher at HW I've seen up until that point.

Super proud of both, but more impressed by Brock with the reasons presented. Looking back I greatly miss that era and appreciate that time in my life.

To be fair I think Mir did have his moments in the 2nd fight standing but gave up that takedown in the second round too easily but I spose that was often Franks big weakness, fight IQ.

In terms of raw skill I think Mir had the tools to be up their the very best but was too prone to making tactical mistakes.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

You made up categories which only exist in fandom

Who won the Strikeforce GP with had both Fedor and DC in it

Big Nog was half a legend half a punching bag

Ts made it up, I just rolled with it for the sake of the thread. Regardless, whether you use terms like “S tier” or you go with the conventional “top 3”, DC ain’t it at HW.

And the Strike force GP is not the sole determining factor for HW ranking. Fedor and Nog objectively have accomplished more at HW than DC, and if you disagree, you’re a clown who’s not to be taken seriously.

Barnett is DC’s best win imo, but the mythical “post Fedor win Bigfoot” is laughable when put forth as some sort of legacy defining win.

 

[ChosenOne]

As much as ppl like to shit on Brock, tell me 10 fighters you can confidentially pick over pre surgery prime Brock.

If Brock gets you down it’s big trouble.

If Brock had to do what any other fighter, new to MMA had to do and work his way to a title fight by going through a huge list of top contenders, his major weakness would get exposed and unless he was given a perfect path to a title fight, he never makes it to one.

Whether you are Houston Alexander and 'for real', and destroying guys until they realize you have no ground game, or you are current Conor McGregor who everyone now knows you withstand the initial flurry and beating and he will gas out, or you were Brock, and they know that if you can land one big punch on his face, his entire game shifts to tentative and fear, that air of invulnerability that made other fighters quit, goes away, and now these guys are in dog fights each and every fight, with a much higher chance of the opponent exploiting their weakness.

When you singular super dominant gift (striking, or wrestling or BJJ (Maia)) has not seen anyone exploit in your early fights, guys quit. ONce your exploit is known, they do not, and you start to lose.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

The question is pretty much summarized in the title. Lesnar had a shorter career to dissect but Mir had the longevity to pick at. I personally would put them in the Top 15 range, I think they both are on a tier beneath the obvious S Tier HWs like Fedor, Stipe, Cain,DC, Big Nog and Werdum. A notch below guys in like the A tier with Couture, Cro-cop, Ngannou, and Ubereem. How would y'all rank them? I think they are on the same level as Sylvia and Rizzo



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I think you've basically got it on the money.
Lesnar would have been S tier had he gone into MMA right after college IMO.
Imagining that meathead genetic anomaly knowing how to strike and take a punch is horrifying.

 

[Sms_productions713]

It sucks we never got ufc 100 mir anymore. That was him at his very best. Even in loss, you could see in the standup how fast he was. Then you also got to realize how bad of a beating he took in that first round, while also having a 285 monster smothering you. He still came out in the second like he didn’t even break a sweat, and was smiling.

Mir has never been in that good of shape again. Also it was nice to see it as mir every fight, was like a lab experiment. He basically fucked his knees up gaining all that weight

 

[BearVictim]

Lol how? They have the same number of title defenses and Arlovski has way more wins.

Fabricio Werdum
Tim Sylvia
Frank Mir
Bigfoot Silva
Vladimir Matyushenko
Ben Rothwell
Roy Nelson
Travis Browne

Don't forget about Paul buentello

 

[StonedLemur]

For me Mir has a special place right up there at the top. A living legend.

Yeah hes in the top 10-15 for sure sir.