Where do you place nick diaz overall

[gono btw]

Im totally relaxed, friend. Only you assume emotional, which speaks about you rather than me

I just enjoy exposing how much superficial and weak are your arguments here.

> Try to asses who are the black belts Pat had succes being in the ground with...and assesing the quality difference between them and Dean Lister....or you dont, on fear of being even more exposed

Anyways here you have yet another blatant example of you getting "facts straight":



Undersized you say...
Yet whats the truth? Sakurai weighted in at 185, Okami did at 181.
But you see a guy being longer - an much lankier - and you conclude the opponent is undersized, despite facts say otherwise.

As I say, extremely superficial approach

meh... you seem bored indeed, nobody attacked you but you seem desperate to lock horns with Gono... Interestin´...

Anyway...

> You dont understand the historical perspective, again. The OW era forced a whole generation to bulk up & take on unrealistic match-ups. Sakurai was heavier? Big deal. Menjivar was also heavier than No Rush in their fight, this has nothin´to do with their natural weight class. They were literally forced to accept that situation due to the sad state of the lighter classes.

Spoiler: Ivan Menjivar - Interview

@ 4mn15: [in French]

Ivan (who started as a WW & finished as a ... BW) explains here that back then, lil dudes had limited options & had to fight against bigger dudes.

: Question: What happened at the end of the 1st Rd of that fight [Okami vs Sakurai]?

> Your narrative about Pat & his competition back then in 1990s is absurd. ADCC started in 1998...

 

[SCTwins]

I place Nick Diaz in a phone booth against your favorite fighter.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

GSP, Hughes, Shields, Woodley and Lawler (despite their fight) are ahead of him. Then it gets closer.

eh. maia, covington, rory, usman, condit, hendricks, wonderboy, etc. it’s not THAT close

 

[pankrat]

meh... you seem bored indeed, nobody attacked you but you seem desperate to lock horns with Gono... Interestin´...

Anyway...

> You dont understand the historical perspective, again. The OW era forced a whole generation to bulk up & take on unrealistic match-ups. Sakurai was heavier? Big deal. Menjivar was also heavier than No Rush in their fight, this has nothin´to do with their natural weight class. They were literally forced to accept that situation due to the sad state of the lighter classes.

Spoiler: Ivan Menjivar - Interview

@ 4mn15: [in French]

Ivan (who started as a WW & finished as a ... BW) explains here that back then, lil dudes had limited options & had to fight against bigger dudes.

: Question: What happened at the end of the 1st Rd of that fight [Okami vs Sakurai]?

> Your narrative about Pat & his competition back then in 1990s is absurd. ADCC started in 1998...

You invited me to “stay quiet”, that’s a pretty condescending attack but anyways its cool I dont take it personal at all

You brought the Okami/Tamura discussion and I thought you was gonna bring some solid arguments but nope, only that one minut in the Sakurai fight back in 2004 in which Okami still busted up his face, and nothing behind that....disappointed to be honest. (btw, lol at comparing BW Menjivar with Sakurai, who never fought below WW)

> If you aren’t capable to acknoweledge Okami’s evolution in boxing/wrestling/BJJ/conditioning since his very early 20s – when he was already regarded as a top talent after winning the pre-Pride tournament and the ADCC qualifiers - you are exposing yourself as clueless. This is not an attack at all, its just what it is.

> Get your facts straight (without taking it personal):

Ryuta Sakurai was a bodybuilder prior to getting in mma. Thats the reason for his bulk. He is not an example of a guy who fought HWs actually, not even earlier in his career.

On the other hand, Yushin Okami was walking around at 180lbs...and you still claim he was a huge MW...try to not skid so much, friend

> Look, I bring you even a Judo chop of Okami mauling a 2x ADCC openweight champ in Dean Lister in the ground:
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/...p-yushin-okami-anderson-silva-attacking-guard

And when I ask you for some equivalent for Miletich (given that you are the one who compares them), the best you can bring is a fight vs natural LW Patino where he tried to avoid his guard as much as he could, and when he actualy went there not only wasn't capable to get anything going but he even had problems defending a guillotine.

If thats the best you can bring friend...it's pretty telling.

 

[danny23]

He’s a cult fighter and never that great. He’s far below the ATG WW and all time rankings. GSP proved they’re many leagues apart. There are so many WWs right now who will beat him in his prime. He might barely crack the top ten in WW for some people, not for me though.

 

[gono btw]

You invited me to “stay quiet”, that’s a pretty condescending attack but anyways its cool I dont take it personal at all

You brought the Okami/Tamura discussion and I thought you was gonna bring some solid arguments but nope, only that one minut in the Sakurai fight back in 2004 in which Okami still busted up his face, and nothing behind that....disappointed to be honest. (btw, lol at comparing BW Menjivar with Sakurai, who never fought below WW)

> If you aren’t capable to acknoweledge Okami’s evolution in boxing/wrestling/BJJ/conditioning since his very early 20s – when he was already regarded as a top talent after winning the pre-Pride tournament and the ADCC qualifiers - you are exposing yourself as clueless. This is not an attack at all, its just what it is.

> Get your facts straight (without taking it personal):

Ryuta Sakurai was a bodybuilder prior to getting in mma. Thats the reason for his bulk. He is not an example of a guy who fought HWs actually, not even earlier in his career.

On the other hand, Yushin Okami was walking around at 180lbs...and you still claim he was a huge MW...try to not skid so much, friend

> Look, I bring you even a Judo chop of Okami mauling a 2x ADCC openweight champ in Dean Lister in the ground:
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/8/...p-yushin-okami-anderson-silva-attacking-guard

And when I ask you for some equivalent for Miletich (given that you are the one who compares them), the best you can bring is a fight vs natural LW Patino where he tried to avoid his guard as much as he could, and when he actualy went there not only wasn't capable to get anything going but he even had problems defending a guillotine.

If thats the best you can bring friend...it's pretty telling.

hmmm... yeah, Gono asked you to stay 'quiet' because you were gettin´nervous: nobody attacked you or your holy Okami. You have a weird tendency of gettin´over-excited & tryin´to lock horns for any disagreement... You should keep this shit for others, it´s rather 'cheap' against Gono.

Note: if you wanna have a serious discussion about MMA evolution with someone like Gono, avoid those 'lols', its kindah childish & not really suited to the topic. Jus´sayin´...

Now, Im really sorry to tell you, but I already know all these things you wrote in your last post. Why did you write them?
> Question 1: how many times are you gonna repeat them to me?
What´s your goal? To repeat the same debate over & over again?

> Question 2: I repeat the question I asked you in my previous post:
What happened at the end of the 1st Rd of that fight [Okami vs Sakurai]? > Im askin´the technical sequence.

> Whether he was a bodybuilder b4 or not, do you have any doubt that he would have had to bulk?

> Again, ADCC started in 1998, doesnt make sense to bring Lister to the discussion. I didnt 'bring' Patino to prove a point, tho... You claimed he fought no BBs. I asked you a question about his background, and this is the 2nd question you ducked.

OK, since you´re in an aggressive mode & really desperate to lock horns (& since that debate over Okami is only a repetition, same arguments from you...), Gono´s raisin´the stakes: these 2 recent debates are high level ones, nobody really took the bait... Show me what you´ve got:

Spoiler: Pride - Vitor Gracie vs Heath Herrin´

hmmm...yeah... This fight/decision is actually a fascinatin´one, & a rather [deceptively] complex one to assess, tbh...

There´s indeed a qualitative difference between the 'theorical' understandin´of a Scorin´System & its application.
At 1st sight, this fight looks like a no-brainer, but then it becomes obviously necessary to try to understand those Pride Judges´ MMA 'ideology' & understandin´of this Scorin´System.

The main idea behind this Scorin´System might have been the urge to create a viable Fight Configuration where Open Weight fights could still remain a possibility in modern MMA.

A few [quick] considerations:

Overall, what do we have?

- Heath scored more on the feet with his kicks (some of those were anticipated by Vitor to get the TD, tho...)
- Heath´s domination was not that 'productive': legit ground control, sure, but... limted damage inflicted, several TDs followed by sudden stand-ups... which betrayed a lack of creativity & [relative] aggressiveness in the guard.
Heath dominated most of the Rd via ground control, kindah ridin´him, but no real damage inflicted: even switched to palm strikes in the guard.
- Heath got more TDs
- Both did try to get better positions & pass guard on the ground

- Vitor got better durin´the fight (actually since the end of the 1st Rd), while Heath´s domination progressively faded from Rd 1 to 3
- Vitor inflicted more 'visible' damage [cut above Heath´s right eye, Rd 1]
- Vitor´s reversal was technically & qualitatively better than Heath´s (who relied more on pure strength & size difference)

Spoiler: Vitor´s Reversal

View attachment 762335 View attachment 762336 View attachment 762337

- The technical sequences where Vitor took Heath´s back were qualitatively more significant than the ones where Heath 'inherited' a turtle position from one of Vitor´s transitions on the ground.
- Vitor got the size difference
- Vitor benefitted from the yellow card.

Spoiler: Yellow Card

Rd 2:
- Vitor got 2 TDs, and important: Heath cheated twice in that technical sequence (grabbin´the rope), and got a yellow card.

OVERALL: Weight difference [> 10 kgs, over 22 lbs] + 1 Yellow Card + Stands-up followin´ Unproductive TDs
= very difficult task for the bigger man, if that goes to the decision.


Conclusion: whether you scored it for Heath or Vitor, a Split Dec. was a realistic outcome.

Spoiler: Rings - Hughes vs Kanehara

hmmm... You´re actually right about Rings´ 'modus operandi'... Their Scorin´System was unique & drastically different.

The risk here is to watch this fight with UFC 'eyes'.
That decision: Hughes x 2 - Draw ... was actually pretty generous for the American (the 2nd Judge who gave it to
him was actually... Maeda himself!).

Historically, when they finally transitioned to that new Fight Configuration & Scorin´System, fights won via ground control were indeed not the norm [lowest criterion > extreme case: Ricardo Morais vs Zaza Tkeshelashvili, where Ricardo did nothin´ & Zaza won via pure ground control]

Here:
> Hiromitsu was clearly the better on the feet, even cut him with a knee.

> Hughes had mostly ground control, & slams.

> Hugues´lone sub attempt was a rather telegraphed transition to armbar, quickly derailed

> Hughes had several dominant positions on the ground, where he mostly bear-hugged his opponent, failin´to transition to anythin´ (even gettin´the hooks in for a potential RNC) .
Quite problematic, indeed... and this truly exposed his limited skill set at that time. Rings was no UFC, a real different 'animal'. No GNP means necessity of slicker transitions on the ground.

> Even off his back, or while givin´his back, Hiromistu kept lookin´for subz, & got 2 reversals (more valuable than ground control)

Overall, this fight could have easily been:
- Draw - Draw - Hughes
& led to an extra round.

Another outcome like:
2 W - Draw for Hiromitsu
wouldnt even be absurd, the way I see it...

 

[pankrat]

hmmm... yeah, Gono asked you to stay 'quiet' because you were gettin´nervous: nobody attacked you or your holy Okami. You have a weird tendency of gettin´over-excited & tryin´to lock horns for any disagreement... You should keep this shit for others, it´s rather 'cheap' against Gono.

you assume so for some reason but its just my way of arguing, trying to be emphatic in a language I barely use out of this boards. Its not about being attacked you can believe me on that

Note: if you wanna have a serious discussion about MMA evolution with someone like Gono, avoid those 'lols', its kindah childish & not really suited to the topic. Jus´sayin´...

Did I actually write a single "lol" to you in this arguing? I'd say I didnt, check it out. You just read it that way for some reason

Now, Im really sorry to tell you, but I already know all these things you wrote in your last post. Why did you write them?
> Question 1: how many times are you gonna repeat them to me?
What´s your goal? To repeat the same debate over & over again?

as many times as needed for you to face it instead of ducking or at best resorting to that 10 seconds in a fight back in 2004 where Okami found himself defending a kimura...I mean, at least try to bring some other example in the next decade....- Question 1: can you?

> Question 2: I repeat the question I asked you in my previous post:
What happened at the end of the 1st Rd of that fight [Okami vs Sakurai]? > Im askin´the technical sequence.

lorolol lorolel you love to ask this kind of questions to people in sherdog. You very rarely get any answer, which is understandable. But I will, because I want to keep being one of your favourites

What happened there is that, after a whole round of Okami posturing up and repeteadly landing GnP with clean, straight punches - instead of just burying his head in his opponent's chest as most American wrestlers used to do - to Sakurai's face over and over again (which was higly praised by Bas Rutten btw), Sakurai managed to grab the arm and work a kimura in a sequence where Okami showcased outstanding flexbility and at no point seems like he is gonna tap, let alone actually tapping.

> Whether he was a bodybuilder b4 or not, do you have any doubt that he would have had to bulk?
]

I have serious doubts Ryuta Sakurai - a former bodybuilder in his 30s - would have been lighter than 180lbs (Okam's natural weight at the time), regardless of the state of weightclasses in mma back then.
Hence you dont have any point at all.

Anyways you have been proven wrong time and time again regarding Okami's reach and also weight. I already tell you that your approach is very superficial in many cases and this is just another example. You see a wide frame and big head and shoulders so that's what your eye catches, instead of the tiny waist, which is actually more telling of a man's weight....but indeed less noticeable for a superficial eye

> Again, ADCC started in 1998, doesnt make sense to bring Lister to the discussion. I didnt 'bring' Patino to prove a point, tho... You claimed he fought no BBs. I asked you a question about his background, and this is the 2nd question you ducked.
]

Nope, you didnt get it right. Maybe I expressed myself wrong. Let's try again:

Given that you draw a comparison between Pat and Okami, I asked you to bring an example of a Miletich fight in which the main trait in Okami's game - posture ups, guard passing, clean staight GnP - is in display against any fighter with a legit ground game, if it's actually a back belt, the better.

In return you bring a fight in which we see Miletich avoiding the ground game as much as he can, we see Miletich on his back and, at best, we see Miletich working some dirty GnP if not struggling to defend a guillotine.....

Certainly not what I asked for

OK, since you´re in an aggressive mode & really desperate to lock horns (& since that debate over Okami is only a repetition, same arguments from you...), Gono´s raisin´the stakes: these 2 recent debates are high level ones, nobody really took the bait... Show me what you´ve got:

Are you seriously bitching out of the discussion we have in hand - and that you actually started in this case - in this cheap way?

I expected better but if that's the case I indeed will deliver, for the first time in this arguing, a resounding LOL

 

[gono btw]

you assume so for some reason but its just my way of arguing, trying to be emphatic in a language I barely use out of this boards. Its not about being attacked you can believe me on that



Did I actually write a single "lol" to you in this arguing? I'd say I didnt, check it out. You just read it that way for some reason



as many times as needed for you to face it instead of ducking or at best resorting to that 10 seconds in a fight back in 2004 where Okami found himself defending a kimura...I mean, at least try to bring some other example in the next decade....- Question 1: can you?



lorolol lorolel you love to ask this kind of questions to people in sherdog. You very rarely get any answer, which is understandable. But I will, because I want to keep being one of your favourites

What happened there is that, after a whole round of Okami posturing up and repeteadly landing GnP with clean, straight punches - instead of just burying his head in his opponent's chest as most American wrestlers used to do - to Sakurai's face over and over again (which was higly praised by Bas Rutten btw), Sakurai managed to grab the arm and work a kimura in a sequence where Okami showcased outstanding flexbility and at no point seems like he is gonna tap, let alone actually tapping.




I have serious doubts Ryuta Sakurai - a former bodybuilder in his 30s - would have been lighter than 180lbs (Okam's natural weight at the time), regardless of the state of weightclasses in mma back then.
Hence you dont have any point at all.

Anyways you have been proven wrong time and time again regarding Okami's reach and also weight. I already tell you that your approach is very superficial in many cases and this is just another example. You see a wide frame and big head and shoulders so that's what your eye catches, instead of the tiny waist, which is actually more telling of a man's weight....but indeed less noticeable for a superficial eye



Nope, you didnt get it right. Maybe I expressed myself wrong. Let's try again:

Given that you draw a comparison between Pat and Okami, I asked you to bring an example of a Miletich fight in which the main trait in Okami's game - posture ups, guard passing, clean staight GnP - is in display against any fighter with a legit ground game, if it's actually a back belt, the better.

In return you bring a fight in which we see Miletich avoiding the ground game as much as he can, we see Miletich on his back and, at best, we see Miletich working some dirty GnP if not struggling to defend a guillotine.....

Certainly not what I asked for



Are you seriously bitching out of the discussion we have in hand - and that you actually started in this case - in this cheap way?

I expected better but if that's the case I indeed will deliver, for the first time in this arguing, a resounding LOL

hmmmm...lol...yeah...lol....you lol dropped lol many lol "lols" in lol your lol previous lol post...
But...lol go lol check lol it lol. It lol is lol very lol eazy lol to lol check lol...

Phewww... Dealt with another 'lol' poster... damn... what 2 do, tho?

Anyway, your 'lol' style & cheap unwarranted tendency of dealin´with disagreement are rather mediocre, especially when it comes to complex debates like MMA Evolution. You sadly dont have enough maturity & historical perspective to deal with such complex topics.

Your assessments havent gained any maturity in those last 2 yrs since we had that Okami vs Tamura debate.
At that time, poor lil Gono was droppin´assessments full of 'lol', 'lmao', 'exposed'... jus´like you´re doin´here... but one has to evolve, drop more mature assessments. Those 'lols' or that 'exposed' shit every 2 paragraphs are rather mediocre when you consider the complexity of those topics. Anyway, if you dont wanna evolve & stay that childish, it´s your problem, but then dont complain if you get no hespect from Gono.

Anyway, you´re completely trippin´, mate.
This was my original quote:

hmmm.. that´s the thing, mate... Miletich´s skill set was arguably more suited to the UFC´s Fight Configuration & Scorin´ System... doesnt mean he was better, tho. (jus´like the qualitative difference in terms of skill set between your holy Okami & Tamura, for instance...)

The parallel I was drawin´ was between Nick/Pat & Tamura/Okami.. You somehow managed to understand it was a comparison between Okami & Pat.



I explained:

> The parallel I drew with Tamura is based on the fact that both Tamura´s & Nick´s game [problematic TDD / submission game] are not best suited to the UFC´s Fight Configuration & Scorin´System where Ground Control is heavily rewarded, and submission attempts, not really.
That doesnt make them better or lesser fighters, that´s your confusion.

But you´re so desperate to drop that narrative of yours about Okami in every debate that you literally forced it into the discussion... Weird...

Then you said:

was never submitted or even close to it in 50 pro fights at WW/MW, .

...of course, only max. 1% of that forum did watch the Ryuta fight, so your attempt at BS´in this place was quite realistic.... unfortunately for you, Gono belongs to those 1%... Bad luck.

Since you will probably say that Gono´s biased, here´s a review on that fight:

http://the-oratory.com/mma-review-322/

"Yushin Okami vs Ryuta Sakurai:

Sakurai grabs a kimura. Okami blocks and tries to roll out of it, but Sakurai gets it locked in, and FORCES OKAMI’S ARM ALL THE WAY UP HIS BACK! Jesus, he must be double jointed, as he STILL doesn’t tap. Okami rolls through to escape again, but ends up side mounted, where Sakurai yanks on the kimura without succeeding to end the round. Good God, his arm should be broken there’but it’s just not!"

> About Okami´s reach:

Spoiler

> A vast majority of the Jap fighters were bulkin´up back then, cut the crap. Today Ryuta would be a LW. Puh-lease...

> Finally, I understand that you feel comfortable (comfort...zone) stayin´in those pure Okami debates... but... seriously... How many times are you gonna drop the very same arguments? Do you have any new arguments?
What´s your objective? Drop the same arguments till 2050?

The 2 other debates I suggested are more complex, ambitious & fascinatin´... You seem bored...

 

[Steve Fox]

Top 20. Exciting fighter, no doubt.

 

[pankrat]

hmmmm...lol...yeah...lol....you lol dropped lol many lol "lols" in lol your lol previous lol post...
But...lol go lol check lol it lol. It lol is lol very lol eazy lol to lol check lol...

Phewww... Dealt with another 'lol' poster... damn... what 2 do, tho?

Anyway, your 'lol' style & cheap unwarranted tendency of dealin´with disagreement are rather mediocre, especially when it comes to complex debates like MMA Evolution. You sadly dont have enough maturity & historical perspective to deal with such complex topics.

Your assessments havent gained any maturity in those last 2 yrs since we had that Okami vs Tamura debate.
At that time, poor lil Gono was droppin´assessments full of 'lol', 'lmao', 'exposed'... jus´like you´re doin´here... but one has to evolve, drop more mature assessments. Those 'lols' or that 'exposed' shit every 2 paragraphs are rather mediocre when you consider the complexity of those topics. Anyway, if you dont wanna evolve & stay that childish, it´s your problem, but then dont complain if you get no hespect from Gono.

Anyway, you´re completely trippin´, mate.
This was my original quote:




The parallel I was drawin´ was between Nick/Pat & Tamura/Okami.. You somehow managed to understand it was a comparison between Okami & Pat.

View attachment 765770

I explained:



But you´re so desperate to drop that narrative of yours about Okami in every debate that you literally forced it into the discussion... Weird...

Then you said:



...of course, only max. 1% of that forum did watch the Ryuta fight, so your attempt at BS´in this place was quite realistic.... unfortunately for you, Gono belongs to those 1%... Bad luck.

Since you will probably say that Gono´s biased, here´s a review on that fight:

http://the-oratory.com/mma-review-322/

"Yushin Okami vs Ryuta Sakurai:

Sakurai grabs a kimura. Okami blocks and tries to roll out of it, but Sakurai gets it locked in, and FORCES OKAMI’S ARM ALL THE WAY UP HIS BACK! Jesus, he must be double jointed, as he STILL doesn’t tap. Okami rolls through to escape again, but ends up side mounted, where Sakurai yanks on the kimura without succeeding to end the round. Good God, his arm should be broken there’but it’s just not!"

> About Okami´s reach:

Spoiler

View attachment 765772

> A vast majority of the Jap fighters were bulkin´up back then, cut the crap. Today Ryuta would be a LW. Puh-lease...

> Finally, I understand that you feel comfortable (comfort...zone) stayin´in those pure Okami debates... but... seriously... How many times are you gonna drop the very same arguments? Do you have any new arguments?
What´s your objective? Drop the same arguments till 2050?

The 2 other debates I suggested are more complex, ambitious & fascinatin´... You seem bored...

View attachment 765773

hahaha that Gono ass looks truly sore...which led to a long, edited post in which was adressed nothing...

- uncapable of bringing any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004....as expected

- uncapable of bringing a Miletich fight in which he shows legit passing/GnP skills against a legit ground fighter.

> 75" reach is average reach for a WW, and below avg for MW > Gonobtw claim Okami was only able to outstrike guys when he "enjoyed a huge reach advantage" > Gonobtw exposed yet again

Dear, your claims have been factually rebutted regarding Okami's reach, size, GnP/passing skils, standup skills.... I've kicked ur ass right and left in these debates. Completely undertandable that cute Gono ass is so sore up by this point

> Sakurai has been fighting until 2016 at MW/WW. He is not even a small WW > Okami's walk around weight back in 2004 was indeed below average for a WW.
Cut the crap.

> Im more than willing - you should know by this point - to educate people on one of the very best fighters ever in the upper weightclasses from the Land of the Rising Sun.
Some will embrace it some others will get (badly) butthurt; i take either as a fair payment for my efforts

pd - I have already checked those debates you invited me to check. Interesting indeed, I probably dropped some likes over there

 

[gono btw]

hahaha that Gono ass looks truly sore...which led to a long, edited post in which was adressed nothing...

- uncapable of bringing any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004....as expected

- uncapable of bringing a Miletich fight in which he shows legit passing/GnP skills against a legit ground fighter.

> 75" reach is average reach for a WW, and below avg for MW > Gonobtw claim Okami was only able to outstrike guys when he "enjoyed a huge reach advantage" > Gonobtw exposed yet again

Dear, your claims have been factually rebutted regarding Okami's reach, size, GnP/passing skils, standup skills.... I've kicked ur ass right and left in these debates. Completely undertandable that cute Gono ass is so sore up by this point

> Sakurai has been fighting until 2016 at MW/WW. He is not even a small WW > Okami's walk around weight back in 2004 was indeed below average for a WW.
Cut the crap.

> Im more than willing - you should know by this point - to educate people on one of the very best fighters ever in the upper weightclasses from the Land of the Rising Sun.
Some will embrace it some others will get (badly) butthurt; i take either as a fair payment for my efforts

pd - I have already checked those debates you invited me to check. Interesting indeed, I probably dropped some likes over there

hmmm... nah...
> Reach: inaccurate, your original narrative was: between 72 and 75. Can you provide a Tale of the Tape with that 72 reach?

> about Pat & Okami: you understood nuthin´.

> about the technical sequence, you also understood nuthin´. See your original narrative about "Okami never close to bein´subbed"

Overall, pretty mediocre.

 

[pankrat]

hmmm... nah...
> Reach: inaccurate, your original narrative was that it was between 72 and 75. Can you provide a Tale of the Tape with that 72 reach?

> about Pat & Okami: you understood nuthin´.

> about the technical sequence, you also understood nuthin´. See your original narrative about "Okami never close to bein´subbed"

Overall, pretty mediocre.

you only deliver questions and no answers...weak.
Anyways, here you go;



And some other sources from a quick search listing Okami's reach as 72":
https://www.ufc.com/news/blueprint-silva-vs-okami

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/ufc-155...ight-card-primer-alan-belcher-vs-yushin-okami

So indeed Okami's reach is listed betweeen 72 and 75 as I said. You have been proven wrong again....how many times already?

Anywyas you asked me to provide, I provide.

Now you still need to provide...

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

 

[gono btw]

you only deliver questions and no answers...weak.
Anyways, here you go;



And some other sources from a quick search listing Okami's reach as 72":
https://www.ufc.com/news/blueprint-silva-vs-okami

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/ufc-155...ight-card-primer-alan-belcher-vs-yushin-okami

So indeed Okami's reach is listed betweeen 72 and 75 as I said. You have been proven wrong again....how many times already?

Anywyas, you asked, I provide.

Now you still need to provide...

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

> 1st of all, sayin´between 72 & 75 is not an accurate info. What we have here is your Tale of the Tape sayin´72 and mine sayin´75.

> About Sakurai, see my previous post.

> About Pat & Okami: see my previous post.

I mean... Did you understand what I wrote?

 

[HHJ]

He isnt anywhere near the top of any all time lists for me but...

Nick is a legend.

His win over Gomi kinda reminds of his brothers win over Conor.

 

[pankrat]

> 1st of all, sayin´between 72 & 75 is not an accurate info. What we have here is your Tale of the Tape sayin´72 and mine sayin´75.

> About Sakurai, see my previous post.

> About Pat & Okami: see my previous post.

I mean... Did you understand what I wrote?

View attachment 765907

hey dear Gono you are going downwards

I say the reach is listed 72 or 75 by several sources. You ask for a tale of the tape listing 72". I provide so, among other sources. You refusing to acknowledge is indeeed textbook childish.

What its not accurate is saying "Okami only oustrikes fighters when he enjoys a huge reach advantage"...which has proven to be wrong...again

Step up your game.

Oh, and....

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

 

[gono btw]

hey dear Gono you are going downwards

I say the reach is listed 72 or 75 by several sources. You ask for a tale of the tape listing 72". I provide so, among other sources. You refusing to acknowledge is indeeed textbook childish.

What its not accurate is saying "Okami only oustrikes fighters when he enjoys a huge reach advantage"...which has proven to be wrong...again

Step up your game.

Oh, and....

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

meh, nice try but I´ve jus´double-checked:
http://ufcstats.com/fighter-details/acff437707625fc7

Yushin Okami RECORD: 35-12-0
THUNDER

Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 170 lbs.
Reach: 75"
STANCE: Southpaw
DOB: Jul 21, 1981

https://tv5.espn.com/mma/fighter/bio/_/id/2335695/yushin-okami

1.91 m = 75

https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/2/PRIDE-Bushido-2-Preview-1439

"At 6'2, he's very tall for this division and gives him a decided reach advantage on most opponents"

Your Tale of the Tape is complete BS.

About the rest, meh, I explained twice, as I said, you seem limited, sometimes...

 

[pankrat]

meh, nice try but I´ve jus´double-checked:
http://ufcstats.com/fighter-details/acff437707625fc7

Yushin Okami RECORD: 35-12-0
THUNDER

Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 170 lbs.
Reach: 75"
STANCE: Southpaw
DOB: Jul 21, 1981

Your Tale of the Tape is complete BS.

About the rest, meh, I explained twice, as I said, you seem limited, sometimes...

Oh it's BS because it doesnt fit your false narrative...textbook childish again.

Here you have, more sources listing 72" (hell, there are way more than I even expected)

www.bleacherreport.com/articles/816578-ufc-134-anderson-silva-vs-yushin-okami-and-the-chael-sonnen-factor

https://www.ibtimes.com/anderson-si...-prediction-ufc-134-saturday-august-27-304938

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/ufc-155...ight-card-primer-alan-belcher-vs-yushin-okami

What matter here is that you try to hide behind false statements about reach, which only reveals how clueless you are about the standup skills

About the rest, meh, I explained twice, as I said, you seem limited, sometimes...

You didnt. Let's see it then, you have all the free time in the world.
But you didnt mate, sometimes you seem like 10 years old refusing to face the truth.

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

 

[gono btw]

Oh it's BS because it doesnt fit your false narrative...textbook childish again.

Here you have, more sources listing 72" (hell, there are way more than I even expected)

www.bleacherreport.com/articles/816578-ufc-134-anderson-silva-vs-yushin-okami-and-the-chael-sonnen-factor

https://www.ibtimes.com/anderson-si...-prediction-ufc-134-saturday-august-27-304938

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/ufc-155...ight-card-primer-alan-belcher-vs-yushin-okami

What matter here is that you try to hide behind false statements about reach, which only reveals how clueless you are about the standup skills



You didnt. Let's see it then, you have all the free time in the world.
But you didnt mate, sometimes you seem like 10 years old refusing to face the truth.

- Any other example in a long decade than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004?

- Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter?

bah, I added other ref:

https://tv5.espn.com/mma/fighter/bio/_/id/2335695/yushin-okami

1.91 m = 75

https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/2/PRIDE-Bushido-2-Preview-1439

"At 6'2, he's very tall for this division and gives him a decided reach advantage on most opponents"

Do you understand that :
> those websites took their info from that BS Tale of the Tape

> UFC´s official website corrected it:
http://ufcstats.com/fighter-details/acff437707625fc7

About the rest:

Anyway, you´re completely trippin´, mate.
This was my original quote:




The parallel I was drawin´ was between Nick/Pat & Tamura/Okami.. You somehow managed to understand it was a comparison between Okami & Pat.

View attachment 765770

I explained:



But you´re so desperate to drop that narrative of yours about Okami in every debate that you literally forced it into the discussion... Weird...

Then you said:



...of course, only max. 1% of that forum did watch the Ryuta fight, so your attempt at BS´in this place was quite realistic.... unfortunately for you, Gono belongs to those 1%... Bad luck.

Since you will probably say that Gono´s biased, here´s a review on that fight:

http://the-oratory.com/mma-review-322/

"Yushin Okami vs Ryuta Sakurai:

Sakurai grabs a kimura. Okami blocks and tries to roll out of it, but Sakurai gets it locked in, and FORCES OKAMI’S ARM ALL THE WAY UP HIS BACK! Jesus, he must be double jointed, as he STILL doesn’t tap. Okami rolls through to escape again, but ends up side mounted, where Sakurai yanks on the kimura without succeeding to end the round. Good God, his arm should be broken there’but it’s just not!"

 

[pankrat]

> those websites took their info from that BS Tale of the Tape
:

Oh Gono, BSing again? You are dissapointing me big time today

This fight is 3 yeard prior to the munoz fight:

Look at the reach disparity ¡!

Btw, Okami boxed him up despite the reach disadvantage (once again proving your claims wrong), and when he didnt want more of it and pulled guard, Okami went there, passed his guard and mounted yet another BJJ black belt.

About the rest:

About the rest, more ducking,

- Nothing about any other example in a long decade other than those few seconds in the Sakurai fight in 2004

- The parallel you make implies a comparison between Pat and Okami (you are clever enough to acknowledge this). Still waiting for you to provide an example of Miletich showing passing/GnP skills comparable to Okami's against a legit ground fighter

Don't be scared homie

 

[xhaydenx]

I agree about Silva. Everyone and their mom went the distance with GSP. Even my mom. She said GSP had good top control but couldn’t finish her.

Your mom's got a good, tight guard tho, bro, let's be honest.