When someone taps - YOU LET GO (vid)

If that stupid fuck doesnt know what a tap is when he's applying a chokehold to a person he has no legal authority to lay hand on, he should be fired and torn apart by a mob, as should you, you ****.

Please explain? Why would a security guard/mall cop/police officer/whoever let you go because YOU TAP?!?!? Maybe you didn't notice but this wasn't a freaking submission grappling match. You might notice the lack of a referee or mats? And what exactly did he have legal authority to do or not do? Please enlighten us.
 
And what exactly did he have legal authority to do or not do?

Actually, I would like to know this as well (I don't live in the states, so I don't know). Does anyone know enough about California law to clarify what the guard did and didn't have a right to do in this situation?
 
According to the guy who put the video up on Youtube, these guys were walking away when the alarm went off. That alone should have given the guard pause. Walking off casually, even after an alarm goes, is not the normal behavior of a wannabe thief.

The whole situation could have been avoided if the guard had simply caught up with the shoppers, gotten in front of them, made them stop, and demanded they produce a receipt. Instead, he chose to tackle one of them (according to the guy taking the video).

Fair enough, he wasn't to know the guy was deaf, at least not in the beginning. But he overreacted, and as a result put this guy in an extremely traumatic situation. There were other things he could have done, other than tackling him.
I'd actually like to hear the guards side before I jump to conclusions. And actually walking is exactly what you might want to do if you just stole something. Why? Because the guards are looking for the guys running away when the alarm goes off.

As of right now we actually have no idea what happened before the video starts and the guy is ALREADY on the ground. But everyone wants to jump to conclusions and shout out, "boo! Bad cops! Let the deaf guys go!" He may have confronted him. I would, in fact, assume that they called out to them numerous times in an attempt to get them to stop. (Again, back to the walking, that's right when a would be thief might whisper to his buddy, "just ignore him and keep walking!") He may have actually gotten in front of them and said, "hold up," to which the deaf guy may have looked at him funny and walked right on by. Right now we don't know but EVERYONE wants to jump on the security guards when, in everything I can see from the video, they appear to be doing their jobs. It may suck. Yeah, the guys may be deaf. The guy on the bottom was freaked out, I understand that. The guards where much bigger than the itty bitty shoppers, so sorry. But he didn't knee the guy in the head to "put him down." He didn't put the guy to sleep. He didn't hit him. He held him...tightly. Everyone wants to say, "ooo, he was brutal with that! He should hold him more gently!" Well, you can't. Because then you're not doing an effective job of restraining him. Then he cuffed him and walked him off. He didn't smack him around while he had him cuffed. He didn't cuff him and then face plant him on the bricks and put a knee in his back.
 
Actually, I would like to know this as well (I don't live in the states, so I don't know). Does anyone know enough about California law to clarify what the guard did and didn't have a right to do in this situation?

Turns out (again, according to the poster of the video) that the guy may have been an in store detective, which would explain the fact that he has cuffs. I'm not sure if regular "mall cops" carry cuffs or not? The youtube comments are hilarious though.

"its amazing he survived, i thought for sure he was dead."

"This is exactly why I carry a weapon with me when I go out. ***** wants to choke me I'd fuckin execute him."
 
I'd actually like to hear the guards side before I jump to conclusions. And actually walking is exactly what you might want to do if you just stole something. Why? Because the guards are looking for the guys running away when the alarm goes off.

However, when actually singled out and confronted, most shoplifters either cut and run at that point, or stop and deny everything. This is why I'm saying the guard should have got in front of them and challenged them. Which I highly doubt he did.

As of right now we actually have no idea what happened before the video starts and the guy is ALREADY on the ground.

Actually, we do have an idea. The guy who posted the video says the guard jumped the guy and tackled him before he started filming.

But everyone wants to jump to conclusions and shout out, "boo! Bad cops! Let the deaf guys go!"

No, not everyone. I don't think my first post implied that at all. I actually accept that there was a degree of misunderstanding and bad luck that inflamed the whole incident. The point I was trying to make was that the guard could have handled the situation better, which would in turn have avoided 1) The deaf guy getting traumatised and 2) a video of the guard winding up all over youtube, which I'm sure he's not thrilled about... or the store he was working for, either.

He may have confronted him. I would, in fact, assume that they called out to them numerous times in an attempt to get them to stop. (Again, back to the walking, that's right when a would be thief might whisper to his buddy, "just ignore him and keep walking!") He may have actually gotten in front of them and said, "hold up," to which the deaf guy may have looked at him funny and walked right on by.

A lot of maybes here. Regarding the last bit in particular, I am presuming the security guard would have to be carrying some sort of ID which he would show the guy. If he had done this, I seriously doubt the guy would have just kept walking, knowing the guy was a security guard.

Right now we don't know but EVERYONE wants to jump on the security guards when, in everything I can see from the video, they appear to be doing their jobs. It may suck. Yeah, the guys may be deaf. The guy on the bottom was freaked out, I understand that. The guards where much bigger than the itty bitty shoppers, so sorry. But he didn't knee the guy in the head to "put him down." He didn't put the guy to sleep. He didn't hit him. He held him...tightly. Everyone wants to say, "ooo, he was brutal with that! He should hold him more gently!" Well, you can't. Because then you're not doing an effective job of restraining him. Then he cuffed him and walked him off. He didn't smack him around while he had him cuffed. He didn't cuff him and then face plant him on the bricks and put a knee in his back.

Again, I have to say, no, it's not EVERYONE at all. You're jumping to as many conclusions as you're accusing everyone else of. Not everyone is jumping up and down screaming "fuck the cops!" at all. But lots of people have concerns about what the guard did, and I think those concerns are justified. I agree he didn't actually brutalize the guy or do him serious damage, but what happened was extremely traumatic, and more so because the guy was deaf (and as another poster said, it would have been extra terrifying because he would have had no idea what was going on, and no way of communicating once he was taken down).

I have no idea what the rights of the guard (or the shopper) were in that situation, so I can't really comment on that: hopefully someone can come in and clarify. But if it turns out that that guard wasn't actually allowed to physically grab the guy, then he is in a world of shit.
 
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Turns out (again, according to the poster of the video) that the guy may have been an in store detective, which would explain the fact that he has cuffs. I'm not sure if regular "mall cops" carry cuffs or not?

Well I'm sure he was a store detective / security of some sort, yeah. I thought that was already agreed upon. I have no idea what the legal rights of these sorts of guys are, as already stated, but I'd be keen to find out.
 
Truth is, no one here knows exactly what happened before the video started. No one truly knows that the person who took the video even observed the entire confrontation. For all we know he could have taken a swing at the detective. The whole point here is to not jump to conclusions and stop with the witch hunt. We don't know everything about this yet. I am not saying the guard was completely in the right but I don't know what happened either.

And if you think a cop is going to just let you go on the street after you resist just because you tap, you are extremely delusional. The real world ain't the UFC and most officers are trained to not stop until the subject is 100% compliant.

Say you are a cop and you have to arrest someone and they fight you. You get a rear naked. By this point everyone has seen some MMA so he taps. You let him up and he rushes you again and takes your gun and kills you. He gets away and you never see your family again. But he tapped so you did the right thing right?
And if you think this a far fetched scenario, wrong there too. This kind of thing happens. As well as people who are resisting arrest "pretending" to be deaf in order to get the officer to drop their guard before they try something.

This is a savage world we live in, not everything can be all happy happy hand holding singing Kumbaya like we would like for it to be. There isn't always time or enough "cool" in the situation to allow everything to always go down like it should.

I guarantee that if the guy who got the video of the Roger Huerta street fight would have missed the guy hitting the girl, that thread would have turned into a Roger bash fest.
 
Truth is, no one here knows exactly what happened before the video started. No one truly knows that the person who took the video even observed the entire confrontation. For all we know he could have taken a swing at the detective. The whole point here is to not jump to conclusions and stop with the witch hunt. We don't know everything about this yet. I am not saying the guard was completely in the right but I don't know what happened either.

And if you think a cop is going to just let you go on the street after you resist just because you tap, you are extremely delusional. The real world ain't the UFC and most officers are trained to not stop until the subject is 100% compliant.

Say you are a cop and you have to arrest someone and they fight you. You get a rear naked. By this point everyone has seen some MMA so he taps. You let him up and he rushes you again and takes your gun and kills you. He gets away and you never see your family again. But he tapped so you did the right thing right?
And if you think this a far fetched scenario, wrong there too. This kind of thing happens. As well as people who are resisting arrest "pretending" to be deaf in order to get the officer to drop their guard before they try something.

This is a savage world we live in, not everything can be all happy happy hand holding singing Kumbaya like we would like for it to be. There isn't always time or enough "cool" in the situation to allow everything to always go down like it should.

I guarantee that if the guy who got the video of the Roger Huerta street fight would have missed the guy hitting the girl, that thread would have turned into a Roger bash fest.

again, that was not a fucking cop. it was a mall cop.

the guy was potentially shoplifting-- not out beating the shit out of someone or raping or killing anyone.

and lol at maybe the deaf guy swung at him.

fact is the guy did not need to choke him on and off for 3 mins.
 
To all those that are saying security is doing there job we have to consider that actual force MIGHT be outside of their job description, therefore any way you slice it they may be wrong, shop lifters or not.

Next there was an eye witness who shot the video and says the men kept WALKING away and not responding. So a tap on the shoulder "Where is your receipt" would have been nice as opposed to a tackle. And as for the choke, did you NOT hear the person yelling "He's turning purple!" Sounds like a choke to me.
 
Would have been awesome if the guy on the ground pulled out a nasty triangle and put the security guard to sleep. Oh well. I feel for the guys. At least nobody got hurt.
 
Don't get me wrong, it's messed up, but it's a suspected robbery, not an MMA fight. The tapout does not apply in this situation.
 
I dun know what's more disgusting: the pig ontop of the poor dude or the bystanders doing nothing. God I hope they sue every penny out of them and those two mall cops do some serious time. What kind of person chokes someone for that long!? Tsk tsk.

Don't get me wrong, it's messed up, but it's a suspected robbery, not an MMA fight. The tapout does not apply in this situation.

I don't know what to say to that.... What a backwards mentality. If you're choking someone, ring or street, and they tap, you don't keep choking them. In the ring you've won, you stand up and raise your arms; on the streets, you let go of your choke, mount, posture up, and grab both wrists until law enforcement comes. You don't continue to cut off their air supply.

:rolleyes: Where's Roger Huerta when you need him? Notice how no one does anything. This is pretty disgusting.

^^ Exactly what I thought. DISGUSTING


Last thing on my mind about this topic: Did the lady forget to remove a security tag? Or did some shoplifter drop a security tag into his bag so they could pass the scanning towers right after him? I hope it wasn't the second one. I can't imagine someone almost dieing in exchange for materialistic objects.
 
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As a security guard you are not allow to hurt anybody only in selfdefense AND you learn technics to neutralise people

you dont see cops pulling guillotine choke and not letting it go and the way he was pulling it looked more like a neck crank

this shit is right up there with that Karate People killing an Autistic person in a '' DOJO CHALLENGE FIGHT ''
 
Would have been awesome if the guy on the ground pulled out a nasty triangle and put the security guard to sleep. Oh well. I feel for the guys. At least nobody got hurt.

iam pretty sure he's neck will have some trauma there
 
I seriously hope that 1. they did not steal anything and 2. this hits national news
 
This thread makes me want to never come onto Sherdog again. Only 1 dude out of dozens has any common sense? Everyone else is acting like a blithering idiot. Seriously people, chill out. I feel bad for the deaf guy on the ground but he didn't get hurt. He didn't get choked out. Sure he was probably uncomfortable. But what did you want the security guard to do? He couldn't communicate with the guy so he really had no choice but to restrain him. Maybe the guard should have pulled guard and put him in mission control. Would that satisfy all of you angry beeyotches?
 
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