When someone taps - YOU LET GO (vid)
- Thread starter esila
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Sweet jesus people, try looking at the other side for juuuuuust a second. YOU are a security guard. Guys walk out, alarm goes off. You shout at them to stop, they ignore you. You shout again and give chase...they ignore you. So you tell someone to call the police and head out to stop the guy. You are going to restrain him until the police arrive. He freaks out, well, of course, I expect that, but I'm going to keep him here until the police arrive. His friend starts going nuts, what kind of scam are these guys pulling? I can't make sense of what they're saying. Hmm, they sound like they might be deaf?
Okay, stop. What the hell are they SUPPOSED to do at this point?
"Oh, well, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were deaf, please proceed on your way with our stolen merchandise!" -uh, no
"Hmm, okay he's deaf, his buddy is freaking out and appears deaf also, but he's really squirming so I need to hold this guy down until the cops get here." -hmm, maybe?
And at NO point did he ever "choke him out." They guy was never unconscious. The security guard looked like he was merely trying to control him. Tight head and arm control. Holding the guys arm behind his back. He NEVER threw a punch. And once he was able to mount and then subdue, he cuffed him, and quietly led him away. You guys are all acting like because these guys were deaf that they should be treated differently somehow than any other person who sets off the alarm. That the security guards should just stand up and "hopefully" these guys will write notes back and forth to them to get it all straightened out. How do you know that they won't kick the guards in the nuts and run away? How do you know the spastic friend didn't just walk out with a cutlery set and is going to open it and gut one of the guards? Well, you don't. So you contain the situation, you CONTROL the situation, to the best of your ability. You don't let someone ELSE control the situation. Deaf or otherwise. The is the same problem that police officers face every day during "routine" police stops. Just because you've never killed anyone or have never fired a gun doesn't mean they know it, BUT they HAVE to assume it for their safety.
I'm not saying that the deaf guys stole something but I'm not saying that they DIDN'T either. More than likely this is a case of some cashier not de-magnetizing or removing a security tag on something that they bought. But at the same time the guards didn't hurt him and in all actuality was quite "gentle". Think about what that security guard could have done to the guy on the bottom if he wanted to? Knees...punches...etc.
Okay, stop. What the hell are they SUPPOSED to do at this point?
"Oh, well, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were deaf, please proceed on your way with our stolen merchandise!" -uh, no
"Hmm, okay he's deaf, his buddy is freaking out and appears deaf also, but he's really squirming so I need to hold this guy down until the cops get here." -hmm, maybe?
And at NO point did he ever "choke him out." They guy was never unconscious. The security guard looked like he was merely trying to control him. Tight head and arm control. Holding the guys arm behind his back. He NEVER threw a punch. And once he was able to mount and then subdue, he cuffed him, and quietly led him away. You guys are all acting like because these guys were deaf that they should be treated differently somehow than any other person who sets off the alarm. That the security guards should just stand up and "hopefully" these guys will write notes back and forth to them to get it all straightened out. How do you know that they won't kick the guards in the nuts and run away? How do you know the spastic friend didn't just walk out with a cutlery set and is going to open it and gut one of the guards? Well, you don't. So you contain the situation, you CONTROL the situation, to the best of your ability. You don't let someone ELSE control the situation. Deaf or otherwise. The is the same problem that police officers face every day during "routine" police stops. Just because you've never killed anyone or have never fired a gun doesn't mean they know it, BUT they HAVE to assume it for their safety.
I'm not saying that the deaf guys stole something but I'm not saying that they DIDN'T either. More than likely this is a case of some cashier not de-magnetizing or removing a security tag on something that they bought. But at the same time the guards didn't hurt him and in all actuality was quite "gentle". Think about what that security guard could have done to the guy on the bottom if he wanted to? Knees...punches...etc.
Unfortunately it went, "I'll just tackle this guy from behind and choke him cause he didn't respond to me. Oh shit, I think he's deaf, I'll just keep choking his ass anyway"
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You mean the part where he was being choked "so hard" that he was able to tap the guy 400 times? And LOL at you not just "laying there." You fight back, they fight harder. Who's side do you think the cops will take when they get there? And you assume that the situation would "clear itself up." How the hell do you know? Maybe the guy just wanted to get free long enough to pull his gun? Who's the idiot at that point? The moronic security guard that let him actually get his gun out. You have absolutely no idea how big of a threat he was. So it's MUCH better to control the situation until you can PROVE he's not a threat.
Please point out at what point he was choked out? The fact that he was ABLE to tap him like that 100 times is because there was no choke in the first place. Tight head and arm control. He was tapping because he was deaf and probably couldn't say, "okay, okay, what do you want? I'll lay down, I'll lay down." And what about a real life situation makes you believe that a cop or security guard is supposed to let you go BECAUSE YOU TAP HIM?!?
Seems like he did a pretty good job at restraining him? And when, ONCE AGAIN I ASK, did he choke him out? If his job is to hold him there until the police arrive I think he did exactly that with MINIMAL damage.
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"Restraining" the guy...who was resisting. Not choking. If that guy was trying to "choke him out" like so many on here believe, I'm pretty sure the guy would have gone nighty night.
We also have no proof that they didn't just run out of the store with merchandise. I'll admit I don't THINK that's what happened but we come into this video mid-altercation with nothing to go on but the TS assurance that "they just ran out and tackled him!"
danxgerous
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You're a fucking ass. The two men were clearly deaf and were clearly nonviolent. They were resisting because that fucking rentacop was choking the shit out of one of the men.
And somehow you want us to acknowledge that the security guard could have done a lot worse? That they were actually being "gentle"? Right, and the pigs that beat the shit out of Rodney King were being gentle because they didn't shoot him.
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Assume much? "Clearly deaf" and "clearly nonviolent"? That's idiotic to assume. The guy on the bottom was NOT nonviolent, he was squirming his ass off. Trying to get away. Sure, he didn't know what was going on but what your saying is that the security guard should just get off him because he was deaf? Or because he wasn't "squirming effectively"? No, the security guards job was obviously to hold him down. He wasn't "choking the shit out of" him, he was holding him down. Try holding down someone who doesn't really want to be held down. What do you do? Hold tighter. Common sense.
And I point out that the security guard didn't WANT to hurt the guy. It's actually pretty obvious if you watch the video. If he WANTED to hurt that guy? Sweet jeebus he would have BLASTED him on any number of occasions. So, yes, he was trying to restrain him with minimal damage.
As for Rodney King did you ever even hear about the lead up? Not that it justifies what the cops did but do you even know about the triple digit high speed chase through the residential areas before Rodney finally pulled over? Do you know that he was high as a freaking kite? That they tased him TWICE and he was still resisting? Probably not. You just want to shout "fight the power" and be done with it.
HardEight
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So a person who is fighting back doesn't squirm?
This doesn't seem to have been picked up by any mainstream media.
and squirming when someone who likely outweighs you by 50 to 100lbs is restraining you is violence?
surely once the suspected shoplifter had been restrained, the other guard should have done more than gut barge the other guy around, perhaps he could have taken the situation inside and compared receipts with goods in the bag.
ninjamurf, i would suggest that unless you yourself are deaf or know anyone deaf, you have no idea how frightening it is being restrained since it removes all ability to communicate.
picture it this way, you have just been shopping, you get tackled to the ground from behind by someone much heavier and stronger than you are, you cannot talk except with your hands, so you have no hope of asking what is going or trying to discuss the situation, and all the while you have a 250lb+ man on top of you wrestling you by the neck and head.
and squirming when someone who likely outweighs you by 50 to 100lbs is restraining you is violence?
surely once the suspected shoplifter had been restrained, the other guard should have done more than gut barge the other guy around, perhaps he could have taken the situation inside and compared receipts with goods in the bag.
ninjamurf, i would suggest that unless you yourself are deaf or know anyone deaf, you have no idea how frightening it is being restrained since it removes all ability to communicate.
picture it this way, you have just been shopping, you get tackled to the ground from behind by someone much heavier and stronger than you are, you cannot talk except with your hands, so you have no hope of asking what is going or trying to discuss the situation, and all the while you have a 250lb+ man on top of you wrestling you by the neck and head.
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His squirming cause the guard to hold on tighter. If you don't see THAT you don't belong in the grappling forum.
danxgerous
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Are you kidding? Did you miss the part where the victim is doing nothing but tapping on the guards arm? And yet the guard still chokes him? He wasn't "squirming" at all. He put himself completely at the mercy of the guard and the guard was squeezing his neck. As the woman said, he was turning purple. At a certain point, the man had to have realized "this guy isn't going to stop choking me, even when I am completely nonresistent. He could possibly kill me if I don't do anything." And thats when he starts to panic and squirm.
Mat Nemesis**
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next time you think about not going to bjj class, watch this video.
lots of cool people are training, but lots of excrement is also and you don't want to be helpless against one of these scumbags and be at the mercy of THEM letting you go.
lots of cool people are training, but lots of excrement is also and you don't want to be helpless against one of these scumbags and be at the mercy of THEM letting you go.
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My question is what do you expect from the 250lb+ man? The one who can't understand YOU and your tapping and squirming? But who's job it is to stop you until the police get there? That's when it will all get figured out.
As for the other guard and the other friend, what would like to see there? The guard tackle that guy? Or just have the guard let the friend interfere with your partner who's trying to restrain the guy who just set off the alarm? And I don't think there's any way in hell that the friend just follows you inside to compare receipts while your buddy squirms underneath the other guard. He kept the guy from interfering. For all we know the friend may have eventually just hauled off and kicked the other guard in the head if left alone?
I'm not saying that the guy on the bottom wasn't freaked out of his mind, and maybe with due cause (I say maybe, because maybe he actually did steal the stuff...I don't know.) But the guard was left with very few other options. Everyone here sees the video and says, "ah, poor deaf guys." Well, the "deaf guys" set off the alarm, most likely unknowingly. It's an unfortunate circumstance to be sure. But jumping on the guards for basically doing their jobs isn't going to help anyone. Just because the guys happen to be deaf doesn't change what the guards were there to do.
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Are YOU kidding? If he wanted to choke him out, he would have choked him out. Not once did the guy lose consciousness or even come CLOSE to it...that's why he was able to tap...and tap...and tap. As for the tapping? Is that how it works? "Sorry officer, I give up" *tap* *tap* *tap* and he just lets you go? This isn't a freaking submission grappling match. It's the real world where a security guard is trying to restrain what may be a thief. Oh, but, hey, tap tap, sorry, and you can be on your way?
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Which scumbag are you referring to? The suspected thief who set off the alarm? Or the security guard trying to do his job?
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If that stupid fuck doesnt know what a tap is when he's applying a chokehold to a person he has no legal authority to lay hand on, he should be fired and torn apart by a mob, as should you, you ****.
Are they guards for the mall or for the store? Seems at odds with policy of a lot of stores so maybe they are mall cops (e.g. Best Buy staff get fired if they try to apprehend shoplifters: YouTube - Fired for tackling shoplifter)
If for the store, why do they not take the men into the store.
If for the mall, i wonder why noone from the store comes out to get involved.
I would be surprised if the response plan for shoplifting was to automatically call the police without trying to ascertain if anything had actually been stolen.
I would also specualte that if those 2 security guards were 180lbs rather than 250lbs or whatever, the situation would have been dealt with in a more non confrontational, probably more appropriate manner.
Obviously much of this is speculation since all we have to go on is the video, no follow up news on it as yet.
If for the store, why do they not take the men into the store.
If for the mall, i wonder why noone from the store comes out to get involved.
I would be surprised if the response plan for shoplifting was to automatically call the police without trying to ascertain if anything had actually been stolen.
I would also specualte that if those 2 security guards were 180lbs rather than 250lbs or whatever, the situation would have been dealt with in a more non confrontational, probably more appropriate manner.
Obviously much of this is speculation since all we have to go on is the video, no follow up news on it as yet.
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According to the guy who put the video up on Youtube, these guys were walking away when the alarm went off. That alone should have given the guard pause. Walking off casually, even after an alarm goes, is not the normal behavior of a wannabe thief.
The whole situation could have been avoided if the guard had simply caught up with the shoppers, gotten in front of them, made them stop, and demanded they produce a receipt. Instead, he chose to tackle one of them (according to the guy taking the video).
Fair enough, he wasn't to know the guy was deaf, at least not in the beginning. But he overreacted, and as a result put this guy in an extremely traumatic situation. There were other things he could have done, other than tackling him.
