International What is the real reason for Trump's tariffs?

[Rational Poster]

It is. Any analysis that excludes the Federal Reserve's impact is misguided. You may be the best poster. ?

Inflation is never good though, especially for the poor and middle class.

If you don't like inflation than you should be in favor of higher rates of taxation.

Particularly on the biggest spenders as they drive inflationary pressure on everything they spend on.

It removes money from the economy over the short term and alters spending behavior.

And the real problem is the wealthiest spenders do not care about inflation because they already have more money than they can spend in their life. Which just drives inflation further and faster.

The wealth inequality is just too damn high. You are competing with billionaires for condos.

 

[N13]

If you don't like inflation than you should be in favor of higher rates of taxation.

Particularly on the biggest spenders as they drive inflationary pressure on everything they spend on.

It removes money from the economy of the short term and alters spending behavior.

And the real problem is the wealthiest spenders do not care about inflation because they already have more money than they can spend in their life. Which just drives inflation further and faster.

I go with less government spending, less creation of fiat money, and a thriving energy industry.

M x V = P x Q
That is the magic formula.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

It looks to me it's a machismo thing. Just swinging his dick around, trying to prove a point how powerful he is. That's how I see it.

 

[Larzon]

The art of the deal baby

 

[avenue94]

That makes a big difference, for context that's the budget of Britain.

It doesnt at the scale of the US. Not to mention that tariffs at that level would cripple the US and probably cause a recession.

An average of 10% is 335 billion a year which is a lot of cash, but it does not solve the problems. There are also beneficial secondary effects like build your factories here to avoid the tariffs. This will create a lot of good jobs for US citizens. This is already happening with some huge foreign investments.

It would literally be more efficient to just subsidize new factories if that's what you're interested. 335 billion in terms of federal outlays is nothing to write home about.

How many jobs were directly created due to tariffs during his first term?

 

[Rational Poster]

I go with less government spending, less creation of fiat money, and a thriving energy industry.

The private sector creates more money out of thin air than the government by a lot and it's not even close. It holds more debt than the federal government by a lot.

Fractional reserve lending and credit, it's just accounting phrases for creating money. This isn't the government, it's private banks.

The problem isn't the creation of money or the accounting, it's that very few people control the majority of it all and outcompete us for everything in the market.

It's like you buy into poker with $5 against someone at the table with $5000. It doesn't matter how well you play, they'll just force you to all in and take your watch.

 

[avenue94]

@avenue94

You got me thinking, thanks. This is a bigger deal then
I initially thought.

The corporate tax rate in the US is going to be reduced to 15%.
That tells me that Trump will want tariffs to be at least 15%.
He doesn't want US businesses to be at a disadvantage.

This is going to be very disruptive for business as usual initially. How are the "scales" going to balance out?

They won't. Consumers pay most tariffs costs. You're asking for a recession with blanket tariffs.

The US has to immediate spend tariff money to bail out farmers last time, it was a net loss.

 

[N13]

It doesnt at the scale of the US. Not to mention that tariffs at that level would cripple the US and probably cause a recession.

It would literally be more efficient to just subsidize new factories if that's what you're interested. 335 billion in terms of federal outlays is nothing to write home about.

How many jobs were directly created due to tariffs during his first term?

Good post.

But, by your own reasoning, all of the nations that have tariffs on us should be crippled and in a recession. But they are not.

 

[avenue94]

When taxes are reduced tax revenue goes up.

They by and large do not. The Laffer Curve is a joke when discussing actual tax revenue.

 

[MeatheadMike]

Something no one is talking about-

6) Could trump just be full-out deranged at this point?



Him stating Ukraine invaded Russia was a new milestone in incoherent craziness, even beyond annexing Canada,

He hasnt been able to cogently explain impetus and leaders in both Canada and Mexico say he flip flops on a daily basis what his alleged goals are.

If thats whats happening though, why wouldn't someone in his party tell him this plan makes no sense? Instead most of them seem to support this. I can accept one man's actions due to stupidity, but not the whole party.

Someone aside from him must think that these tariffs will achieve something, right?

 

[Rational Poster]

Good post.

But, by your own reasoning, all of the nations that have tariffs on us should be crippled and in a recession. But they are not.

Not every nation is a global trade empire like the United States. In fact, none are.

Tariffs make sense when you're a smaller nation protecting domestic businesses from unequally wealthy nations like the United States that are both exceptionally wealthy and subsidizing vital industries like energy and agriculture to a level that makes competition impossible. We have some of the lowest at the pump price for gas in the world and the cheapest food, yet we consume exponentially more of all of it.

United States is sitting at the table with $1,000,000 and almost everyone else has like $5.

 

[N13]

The private sector creates more money out of thin air than the government by a lot and it's not even close. It holds more debt than the federal government by a lot.

Fractional reserve lending and credit, it's just accounting phrases for creating money. This isn't the government, it's private banks.

The problem isn't the creation of money or the accounting, it's that very few people control the majority of it all and outcompete us for everything in the market.

It's like you buy into poker with $5 against someone at the table with $5000. It doesn't matter how well you play, they'll just force you to all in and take your watch.

Agreed, but The Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank. If it creates more fiat than the growth in GDP, we get inflation. More cash seeking the same supply of goods. And to make matters worse, when the Fed does this we have to borrow it with interest through the issuance of bonds.

I would like to sed the Fed go by by. The US Treasury can do what they do; no need for a parasite sucking out our life blood.

 

[N13]

Not every nation is a global trade empire like the United States. In fact, none are.

Tariffs make sense when you're a smaller nation protecting domestic businesses from unequally wealthy nations like the United States that are both exceptionally wealthy and subsidizing vital industries like energy and agriculture to a level that makes competition impossible. We have some of the lowest at the pump price for gas in the world and the cheapest food, yet we consume exponentially more of all of it.

United States is sitting at the table with $1,000,000 and almost everyone else has like $5.

In your card parable, that means that we win all the chips.

Those issues with foreign nations are not our problems. Same goes for them holding tons of US bonds.

 

[N13]

They by and large do not. The Laffer Curve is a joke when discussing actual tax revenue.

After Trump's tax decrease in his first term, tax revenues went up.
Fact

The Laffer curve is just as bad as Keynesian theories.

 

[Rational Poster]

In your card parable, that means that we win all the chips.

We already have all the chips, but tariffs are just giving them away to countries like China who already are not playing by the rules and are more than willing to openly trade with our allies at our expense. They're actually desperate for it.

If we understand that tariffs can be avoided by just trading with someone else, what's stopping all our current trading partners from trading with China to avoid tariffs? Who are we going to trade with?

 

[N13]

We already have all the chips, but tariffs are just giving them away to countries like China who already are not playing by the rules and are more than willing to openly trade with our allies at our expense. They're actually desperate for it.

If we understand that tariffs can be avoided by just trading with someone else, what's stopping all our current trading partners from trading with China to avoid tariffs? Who are we going to trade with?

Not sure if I understand that the way you do.

We can trade/barter with the Reptilians. They like eating humans and our glands make fluids that are like narcotics to them.

 

[Andy Capp]

Nobody in Europe wants shitty US cars though

No one in North America wants shitty US cars.

 

[avenue94]

After Trump's tax decrease in his first term, tax revenues went up.
Fact

Tax revenue dropped compared to what it would have been.

Tax revenue almost always increases over time because of population growth.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Sigh. You shouldn't need me to tell you. When Trump/Musk/Vance does something, just ask yourself, does this help The People, or does it help Putin?

Attack America's allies? Check.
Speak positively of America's enemies? Check.
I'm sure you can think of other examples without my help.

the belief here is that every action you mentioned is simply to help Putin, but why exactly?

Because they are best friends behind closed doors? What exactly is in it for Trump to help Putin here.

To be clear, although he's definitely helping Putin with his actions, you have to be retarded to think that's all this is about.

 

[Rational Poster]

Not sure if I understand that the way you do.

We can trade with the Reptilians.

What's not to understand?

There's a finite number of trade partners. We're the only country belligerently tariffing other countries.

Why would anyone do business with us, when they have an entire world of options?