International What is the real reason for Trump's tariffs?

ermac88 said:
Whats his stated; international problem, with Canada and Mexico?
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The border with Mexico. A flawed understanding of the border with Canada.

And manufacturing pressure on industries in those countries. He thinks they're ripping us off.
 
Rational Poster said:
What's not to understand?

There's a finite number of trade partners. We're the only country belligerently tariffing other countries.

Why would anyone do business with us, when they have an entire world of options?
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Actually other countries have all kinds of tariffs.

Most of our potential tariffs are not in effect yet.

And yes, if the cost of our shit costs more than others, then nations will do business elsewhere.
 
MeatheadMike said:
It wouldn't be possible to achieve 1 - 4 at the same time for reasons mentioned in the OP.... but I didn't consider the possibility that maybe Trump himself thinks they can all happen because of the perceived simplicity (although I'm pretty sure even he knows #1 is bs).

This would seem in line with how he operates... but even still, other people in his party must have realized this makes no sense, so why not advise him against it. I guess my main hang up is I don't think Trump is making these decisions unilaterally. I think he was convinced by someone that this is a good plan for some specific reason.
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At this stage, do you genuinely believe that anyone in the GOP can convince him to do anything that he doesn't want or has the strength of character to even try?

No, he wants tariffs. The sycophants will nod in agreement. The people who think it's dumb aren't going to risk their political futures to say so. And, as POTUS, he doesn't need anyone's say so. So, he'll do what he wants and if it fails, the blowback is all on him...and us.
 
panamaican said:
At this stage, do you genuinely believe that anyone in the GOP can convince him to do anything that he doesn't want or has the strength of character to even try?

No, he wants tariffs. The sycophants will nod in agreement. The people who think it's dumb aren't going to risk their political futures to say so. And, as POTUS, he doesn't need anyone's say so. So, he'll do what he wants and if it fails, the blowback is all on him...and us.
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Trump is walking a tight rope with no net.

Makes it more exciting.
 
N13 said:
Actually other countries have all kinds of tariffs.

Most of our potential tariffs are not in effect yet.

And yes, if the cost of our shit costs more than others, then nations will do business elsewhere.
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It's not even about what we're selling, it's about we're buying.

We can't make anything if no wants to sell us inputs like steel, aluminum, lumber, fertilizer, etc
 
N13 said:
@Rational Poster

The US has two things that just about everyone needs: Food and Energy.

That's called leverage.
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This isn't even true we get the majority of our fertilizer from Canada and 70% of our imported crude comes from Canada.

We can't grow food or make as much gasoline without Canadian inputs.

US crude is mostly light crude. The heavy crude from Canada is refined into gasoline for both countries.

We're only energy independent when you make that assumption with Canadian cooperation in trade.
 
Rational Poster said:
It's not even about what we're selling, it's about we're buying.

We can't make anything if no wants to sell us inputs like steel, aluminum, lumber, fertilizer, etc
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We already have that stuff.

What we lack is the rare earth minerals. China controls these and has "monopoly" power. They need food and energy. Seems to me that a win win deal is possible.
 
EL CORINTHIAN said:
the belief here is that every action you mentioned is simply to help Putin, but why exactly?

Because they are best friends behind closed doors? What exactly is in it for Trump to help Putin here.

To be clear, although he's definitely helping Putin with his actions, you have to be retarded to think that's all this is about.
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Two things can be true at the same time. Like, if he tanks the economy, he and all his rich friends can buy shit up at pennies on the dollar. I'm not going to do your thinking for you--you don't seem much interested in that either; but you don't need me to enumerate every single shitty thing he does and why do you?
 
Rational Poster said:
This isn't even true we get the majority of our fertilizer from Canada and 70% of our imported crude comes from Canada.

We can't grow food or make as much gasoline without Canadian inputs.

US crude is mostly light crude. The heavy crude from Canada is refined into gasoline for both countries.

We're only energy independent when you make that assumption with Canadian cooperation in trade.
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Sounds like it's going to be easy to strike a new deal with Canada.

We have been importing a lot of oil from Venezuela too.
 
N13 said:
We already have that stuff.

What we lack is the rare earth minerals. China controls these and has "monopoly" power. They need food and energy. Seems to me that a win win deal is possible.
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This isn't true either. We have plenty of all minerals. Some of the largest lithium deposits on earth have been found on our own soil in recent years.

What China has over us isn't access or quantity of "rare" earths. It's extracting, refining and processing capacity. (and WORKFORCE)

The process just sucks, takes a lot of time to develop, and then the process itself is time consuming. Many months for one "batch" of rare earths from ore processing.

We are not in the business of digging rocks out of the ground. We're in the business of paying someone to do it for us and doubling our investment.
 
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N13 said:
Sounds like it's going to be easy to strike a new deal with Canada.

We have been importing a lot of oil from Venezuela too.
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What new deal? We already have pretty much the best one possible. They don't tariff our industry inputs and they're happy to sell as much as we can buy.
 
Andy Capp said:
Two things can be true at the same time. Like, if he tanks the economy, he and all his rich friends can buy shit up at pennies on the dollar. I'm not going to do your thinking for you--you don't seem much interested in that either; but you don't need me to enumerate every single shitty thing he does and why do you?
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Buddy, I don't need you to enumerate the "whats", I'm asking you to breathe life into your take by fulfilling the "why"

So far, all I got is that he's enriching Putin and himself.

Nevermind me, you can't even do the thinking for yourself if you actually think that's the broader agenda here.
 
N13 said:
@Rational Poster

There is going to be a huge demand for electricity to power the data processing centers for AI.

China has been leading the way. Need to catch up.

en.m.wikipedia.org

List of countries by electricity production - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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MWh per capita is a more accurate measure, imo.

But yes, energy production (and consumption) is something economists are starting to theorize on more often and how it relates to growth, etc

It's also not perfect, climate conditions especially extreme cold or hot climates require much higher energy consumption per capita.
 
@N13

Per capita, China still has a ways to catch up.

w7HKyYI.png
 
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Rational Poster said:
TWh per capita is a more accurate measure, imo.

But yes, energy production (and consumption) is something economists are starting to theorize on more often and how it relates to growth, etc

It's also not perfect, climate conditions especially extreme cold or hot climates require much higher energy consumption per capita.
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I agree, per capita is a measure to consider. But as you said earlier, it's complicated.
 
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