Fronk, may I call you Fronk...
Fronk, this is why you shouldn’t bother trying to engage with the left here. They are immune to facts, and increasingly, it seems dignity as well.
Elections Tulsi Gabbard just (informally) announced she is running for President
- Thread starter PEB
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Fronk, may I call you Fronk...
Fronk, this is why you shouldn’t bother trying to engage with the left here. They are immune to facts, and increasingly, it seems dignity as well.
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Most Americans are isolationist. Most politicans aren't. Neocons also love supporting evil dictators the blatant hypocrisy they show on this issue is just incredible. Hillary would mention Henry Kissinger as a spirit animal while bragging about taking out Gaddafi(Obama's self described worst decision as President). Lmfao.
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I hope u are right. I don't think I could take Bernie getting ass raped with a chainsaw again by the DNC. Only to watch him curl up in a ball again and stutter....but Trump is bad.
Tulsi Will fight back
Trump has literally made your life better.
Isis, economy, pushback on China, etc.
FFS, he even renegotiated NAFTA. Something progressives promised, but would have never accomplished.
Remember, if the dnc fucks you again. Vote Trump.
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They won't vote Trump. The DNC could firebomb the cars transporting both Bernie and Tulsi and they'd still pull the lever for the DNC puppet that is given the nomination
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Is that so. Why don't you take your head out of your ass and read her actual stance on it that was posted on the first page? Or maybe that is just too hard and screeching about "evil dictators" is good enough? You epitomize the problems with many Americans, so ignorant and yet so sure of their opinions. You have no clue about whats going on in Syria, you think hearing "evil dictator" somewhere is enough information for you to give support for the American war-machine to wreck havoc on the other side of the world. Fuck you. Luckily your kind seem to slowly dying out.
*Islamophobes
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Nope.
ISIS was going to happen no matter what. ISIS was mostly destroyed long before he became President and were being consistantly pushed back after their breakout summer of 2014. Trump deserves little to no credit for this. There is almost nothing he could have done to screw this up. ISIS being protrayed as this mortal threat to the West gives a different perception though. They did have an intimidating name and goal but it was just that.
Economy. No, reason I hated Hillary so much is how similar their economic visions were. His tax plan is something I find morally and economically repulsive. I could go into more details but it was basically a repeat of the Reagan and Bush plans which did nothing except increase income inequality. The ways this plan was promoted were either blatant lies(trickle down) or misusing economic terms(like broadan the base that were correct in the pre Reagan days and are no longer applicable. They will then use the increased debt they ran up giving free money to rich people(and that is basically what this is) and get serious about deficit reduction when it comes to our midget welfare state.
Tariffs are complicated. I don't oppose his tariffs and they and all tariffs attacked under very stupid terms by the MSM(like using the Hoover example is dumb in so many ways) but it's not really solving a pressing issue. That's an issue with Trump voters they are looking to solutions to minor problems like immigrations taking jobs, our economy moving away from certain jobs, trade deficits and the like while ignoring pressing dangers like climate change and economic inequality and the health care crisis that borders on indirect mass slaughter at this point. Trump's health care plan would have basically added fuel to that slaughter and while I guess I can't blame him for doing something that didn't happen, that isn't due to a lack of effort. Support the repeal on the individual mandate but that was a conservative plan to begin with that Republicans started to hate once Obama decided to do it.
The handful of issues Trump agrees with Progressives on such as Syria, trade kind of(trade deals and tariffs should not be either a pro or against issue because whether they or good or bad is very very very conditional) do not come close to outweighing the things he is against us on such as climate change, taxes, health care, infrastrcuture and social programs(though he did say he didn't want to cut these things while campaigning that didn't hold true). Also Trump has used the awareness infrastructure is bipartisan as leverage in things that aren't. So can't give Trump credit for the infrastructure when he's holding everything else hostage to get something he supposedly cares about independent on us.
I loved the guy in the 00s loved the Apprentice. Today I think he's going to go down as the man who destroyed humanity as a result of the Paris decision. It's super dumb to say 100% of what someone did is bad and I don't but he's pretty awful.
Also Presidents ALWAYS run as isolationists and govern as interventionalists because super neocon Washington will nag an isolationist 24/7 into submission. You'll notice how much more often Presidents keep domestic promises opposed to foreign, this is why.This is why Obama took so long to leave Iraq. If you think because Trump said he wanted to leave Syria we are leaving Syria you are sorely mistaken. The man will be nagged 24/7 by most members of both parties for a slight adjustment and a slight adjustment there until we are right back where we were.
So I don't care about foreign policy because I'm operating the assumption anything good under that realm will be undercut by someone. Look at Obama/Hagel/Kerry's foreign policy, great improvement on Israel/Palestine Washington basically mauled them alive.
And yeah personally Hillary and Trump have utterly ravaged my life in ways I don't care to go into detail about. Things you do when you are drunk on election night lateral other things and oh boy.
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She is in favor of a restoration of the Glass-Steagall banking regulations
Wants to repeal the Patriot act,
Pushed for legislation to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour
Supports Medicare for all
In favor of federally legalizing marijuana
Opposes the US support for the Saudi war in Yemen.
etc.
That's all solidly to the Left of someone like Obama or Clinton.
???
You do know Obama was arming ISIS allied jihadists, right?
And you do know the reason your girl Tulsi is hated by the left is that she called out obama publicly about arming Isis on Twitter?
Did you really think it was a coincidence that trump was elected and the economy skyrocketed and Isis disappeared?
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^^^The democrat base
Because we think Trump is worse. I mean I didn't do it because I'm in a state where I didn't have to and the whole email thing kind of makes you a cuck for doing so but generally I would vote for their puppet save maybe Beto or Cory?
Like liberals main issue with Hillary was she wasn't going to do what liberals wanted and run the country as a center right politician and be everything we didn't like about Obama but worse. Trump seeks to destroy everything liberals wanted. So I don't think conservatives who critcize liberals for not voting Trump really understand why that decision was typically made.
Also hard to imagine any Dem puppet being quite as repulsive as HRC. Not that it matters this time, Trump has a far better chance of winning in 2020 than he does in 2016 and many people who could have been elected in 2016(EW) probably get their ass handed to them to this time but not getting what you want and going in the opposite direction are two different things of which the former is preferable.
I was a lifelong democrat.
Then I realized, they’re not trying to help the little guy. They are John McCain, if he ran around calling everyone a racist.
Look at what Obama promised, look at what he delivered. The motherfucker literally let Citibank hand pick his cabinet, right after the bank crisis ffs!!!
Trump has accomplished more of your progressive goals than Obama did.
Think about that one,
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Yes, yes I do that was bipartisan though everyone(in Washington) wanted to do that. All the neocons and interventionists deserve credit/blame. Will never forget watching McCain on CSPAN saying those people should be funded because and I quote "they are legit they have a website". Obama's biggest mistake in Iraq was giving power to an oppressed minority who were looking for revenge that was going to destroy Iraq.
She isn't hated by the "left", she has been the left's golden child for years(which is why was attacked because her running in 2020 was quite forseeable). Republicans equate Democrats and Democratic politicans with the left. Foreign policy on both sides of the isle is the issue that voters views are least represented on because the American public on a bi partisan basis supports isolationism more or less and their representatives on a bi partisan basis support fervent intervention everywhere.
The "economy skyrocked" is a gross simplification. The stock market skyrocked that does mean the economy skyrocketed. Trump's policy's benefit the shareholder class so the shareholder class is going to respond by buying more stocks and making more money(which while stimulating economic growth in the real economy stimulated considerably less than needed to pay for the tax cuts). The biggest issue americans have with economics is not understanding that not everyone works for a living and that the wealthy make their money in a fundamentally different way and that they benefit from people who work making less money. We are always brainwashed into hating executives the top of the working class rather than shareholders for example.
There's no coincidence with ISIS. It was clear years before it happened it was going to happen and who was elected made 0 impact on that. Maybe if the media you watched portrayed it different you think Trump turned things around but that war and how was it going at different stages is a public record and it was over long before ISIS lost the last of it's territory(like look at maps that show the territory ISIS controlled, tide turned in 2015). Obama's policies both created and defeated ISIS and that actually isn't much of a big deal. ISIS is an issue that save those first few insane months that got coverage it really didn't deserve, they really were just at their peak like 20k dudes on a bunch of drugs who kept getting weapons by scaring incompetent Iraqi military personalls they were never going to become a "Caliphate". It was pure delusion. Their attacks in France in 2016 seemed to be a desperate move for attention to get more recruits and convicne Muslims who they were brutal af towards that their existential conflict with the rest was real and not part of their trippin imaginations.
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She is an active duty service member, who has served in active war zones, more than almost any other current politician can say. She gets grief from both sides, because she went to Syria and met with its president. She believes you should meet with your adversaries, to try and prevent war.
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They are already turning on her. Anyone who doesn't support endless wars, mass immigration and corporate/banking control always gets the same treatment. Just wait until the CNN propaganda machine gets to work on her.
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Keep lippin' off, Sweden. Right now you're a missle-fly-over country, but that could change.
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I've thought about this quite a bit. Most of them are Republicans. When Reagan obliterated them in the 1980s there response was to become economically conservative. I'm puzzled that the answer of many to this issue is to support Republicans and hope they are more willing to tell their donors to go fuck themselves. For example Barack Obama's policies save Civil Rights are almost identical to that of Richard Nixon. Democrats are what would be called "Rockefeller Republicans" in the old days and(even in Hillary's case extremist Goldwater ones), Republicans typically are just far right extremists Reagan and further right.
Obama is a corporate Democrat and that should be prevented but that doesn't mean Republican policy isn't even more pro corporate in even more areas than Democrats are. Even among corporate Dems there are differences and Obama and Hillary had different policy's as well, differences were minor and trivial compared to Bernie and Hillary for example but they are still there.
On foreign policy your assumption about McCain, Obama is sort of right(though McCain was uniquely zealous even in Washington) on economics can't see it exacept maybe on the money in politics issue.
Trump has not accomplished more progressive goals than Obama has regardless of what a dissapointment he was.
Taxes-Obama undid the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy(just the wealthy) and brought the top rate to the still very conservative Clinton levels. Trump passed a tax cut package that while keeping part of that increase on the highest income earners, greatly reduced corporate taxes and got rid of the SALT deduction which basically punishes liberal states for good governance and means that you can't deduct state taxes.
Climate Change-Obama put us in the Paris Accords. Trump pulled us out. This is crucial because the states that require the most carbon emissions to be cut are the ones that have to be forced by the feds. The states doing it on their own emmit far less carbon than their red state neighbours the red states are the ones we need to reduce emissions in.
Health Care-Obama passed the ACA. The Mandate was bad though it did reduce the increase of costs, no one cares about the increase of costs when they are so outrageous and you are forced to buy. Medicaid expansion though gave government health care to everyone making 100-138% of the povery line and the bill has a lot of good regulations that prevent some of the insurance companies worst practices such as the one setting legal minimums of care that must be provided. Trump's tax plan basically would have let the insurance companies have open season on Americans(and even to the upper middle class and some of the 1%, medical costs are high enough where they can still destroy you). Senator Nelson and the Massachusetts voters deserve more blame than Obama for there not being a public option, any President is going to be very biased towards getting a big piece of legislation done regardless of how much important shit is left out.
Regulations-Man promised to cut 2 regulations for every put in place. He basically put someone who's dedicated their life to the destruction of the environment in charge of the EPA. Obama especially near the end got very good with regs had the Clean Power Plan and made a bunch of national monuments.
Finance-Obama passed Dodd-Frank. Didn't bring back Glass-Stegall most important thing to regulate banking but it's something.
Minimum wage-Disappointing he only pushed for 9 dollars and didn't get an increase but still motivated state lawmakers to act. Trump thinks the wage is too high and is doubtful the wage is increased in his administration.
Judges-Trump nominated two judges who are hostile to everything progressives care about and who will be a thorn in the side our agenda long after he is gone. Obama did the opposite.
So where's those improvements? Only one I can think of is getting rid of the TPP. That's nice but I don't think that comes close to undoing the rest of this list. On foreign it's a mixed bag he's better on Syria while being worse on Israel and the same on most other stuff.
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Not a good name for the spotlight. Is it Tull-see, Tool-see? Ga-bard, Gab-ard? The fact that I have never even heard it spoken at this point tells me her chances are jack and shit.
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