Crime Trump-Ukraine Megathread v4

[Ophydian]

You do realize the guy on the other end of the phone has already stated there was nothing wrong, right?


Good luck on the second whistleblower. Surely, this time it will be the end of drumph...

Still doesnt mean a crime didnt occur. It’s not like Ukraine filing charges is the make or break here.

Do you cringe at all when you realize your trying to get Trump off on a technicality? It’s like being happy the LAPD screwed up evidence handling in the OJ case.

 

[bobgeese]

Still doesnt mean a crime did occur. It’s not like Ukraine filing charges is the make or break here.

Do you cringe at all when you realize your trying to get Trump off on a technicality? It’s like being happy the LAPD screwed up evidence handling in the OJ case.

Still waiting for you to explain how trump being spied on is any different than looking into Bidens scandals.

 

[andnowweknow]

And the beat goes on...within a few weeks there will be more Volker's coming forward from the State Department as Pompeo is seen as no different than Barr...

Lawyer for Ukraine whistleblower says he represents second whistleblower on Trump's actions

Attorney Andrew Bakaj, also representing the whistleblowers, tweeted Sunday, "I can confirm that my firm and my team represent multiple whistleblowers in connection to the underlying August 12, 2019, disclosure to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. No further comment at this time."

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/06/po...ump-ukraine/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

They don't know how to defend him

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

They don't know how to defend him

I just watched that shit show. was laughing the whole time.

 

[andnowweknow]

They don't know how to defend him

Tucker Carlson says Trump's Ukraine call was inappropriate: 'There's no way to spin this'

A tactical signal?
That's what NBC's Benjy Sarlin thinks the op-ed was. "There's a pretty massive tactical signal here," Sarlin tweeted, "which is to pivot away from defending the behavior (which has been a brutal slog so far for those who've tried) and instead toward arguing impeachment goes too far."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/05/media/tucker-carlson-op-ed-ukraine-trump-impeachment/index.html

 

[Ruprecht]

Still waiting for you to explain how trump being spied on is any different than looking into Bidens scandals.

I think the dirt digging is way less important than being prepared to sacrifice any sort of coherent foreign policy for domestic political gain.
It's always been obvious that Trump's foreign policy is driven by domestic politics, but not to the extent that this reveals.

 

[andnowweknow]

I think the dirt digging is way less important than being prepared to sacrifice any sort of coherent foreign policy for domestic political gain.
It's always been obvious that Trump's foreign policy is driven by domestic politics, but not to the extent that this reveals.

I don't think anyone who pays attention to this whole impeachment affair would really disagree with this. The more interesting question is what is the counterweight that makes this sort of behavior acceptable? I find it hard to reconcile that it is simply a distaste for the American left, though that's what sticks out.

 

[Ophydian]

Still waiting for you to explain how trump being spied on is any different than looking into Bidens scandals.

Oh I thought that was a joke as we’ve covered this over and over. But keep trying to get Trump of on wrong drivers license number on his speeding ticket bullshit.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Liar who has gained courage because someone more intelligent than you has joined the fray.

lol at you thinking I need @Fawlty to feel bold enough to comment. I guess you forget our exchange in the thread before this one where you were far more direct.

I don't. You were consistently using whataboutism and bothsidesism while suggesting you hold the moral high ground and others are just being partisan if they don't agree.

Bothsideism does not require you saying they are EQUAL offenses as you seem to think.

.

franklinstower
Well we are both talking about "should" a lot here. I think that is good but we are focusing on different things that should and should not be.

My center of gravity here is right and wrong. My allegiance is to preserving right and wrong and calling it out everywhere it is found.

I think Trump is one of the worst things that have ever happened to this country. I think he is dangerous and unstable and capable of degrading the country in profound ways. I think he is doing that.

Having said that Trump IS going to gain political capital from this and it is Bidens falut and the democratic parties fault (I am a Democrat) for allowing and considering acceptable and normal behavior that is obviously corrupt.

Biden is corrupt and I don't care if it is legal or illegal. I am glad I know what Trump has revealed about him. It just puts another piece of info into the picture of a terrible candidate that we should NOT nominate for present.

The fact is both sides have lost their way and neither side has moral credibility even though the Republicans are obviously worse. The dems would have a moral case to make if it weren't for the fact that they are corrupt also.


What all of us should be doing is fighting against corruption wherever it is found, every single time it is found and we should never cover for it or diminish it when we see it on "our" side because corruption is the biggest issue we face today an it trumps all else-- even Trump.


I would maybe not be so gung ho about this in the primary were there not a corruption free candidate competing for the nomination, but there is so why settle for fucking Biden when we have Bernie? Why protect a lying liar when we have a truth teller? Why argue our side is bad but your side is worse when we could say our presidential nominee is stainless?

Let all these corrupt people burn to the ground every time it is found and make a case to the people of real change and not just ordinary levels of corruption and lying. We would only gain reliability in the eyes of the public and true moral standing if we did it.

The corruption IS on both sides. I am playing the facts straight instead of choosing sides. I am doing this because corruption is the biggest problem we face.

Also as democrats we have the special responsibility to ensure our party has moral integrity. We should fight hard for that and demand it of our people.

My only allies are those who want to do what is right in ANY side of the political spectrum. Everyone else is complicit in the country losing its moral foundation.

The corruption is systemic. The exact instance we are discussing happened under the Obama admin FFS.

The CORRUPTION has to go everywhere it is found period, or we are just being petty children with no wisdom.

Your tribalism is making you unable to process what I am saying.

Of course Trump should be held accountable for what he has done right now with vigor. I said root corruption out everywhere it is found. Everywhere means everywhere.

Anything that he is doing that is illegal should be pursued with vigor.

I said call it out EVERYWHERE it is found. Problem is dems wont if its their side and repubs wont if its their side and all I see is a near total loss of moral foundation and hypocrisy everywhere.

I think people have lost sight of how dangerous this loss is and that nothing good can come from anything built without it.

It was new to me and I don't mind where it came from.

The only solution here is for a party to actually take the moral high ground. Arguing for who is the MOST evil is just stupid even though it is obliviously the REP party.

thread cite


Look franklinstower, i am glad you are trying to soften your stance and pretend these were not your positions prior. I hope I had some role in educating you and changing your view. But you DID say it, and that is why I took issue. It was stupid and wrong and riddled with bothsideism's and whataboutism's. without comprehending why they don't apply.

 

[bobgeese]

I think the dirt digging is way less important than being prepared to sacrifice any sort of coherent foreign policy for domestic political gain.
It's always been obvious that Trump's foreign policy is driven by domestic politics, but not to the extent that this reveals.

Trump FP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama’s FP



Obama botched every major FP decision in his last 6 years in office.



That being said, your criticism is at least based in reality. Fortunately, he hasn’t had any major missteps.

 

[sdpdude9]

Tucker Carlson says Trump's Ukraine call was inappropriate: 'There's no way to spin this'

A tactical signal?
That's what NBC's Benjy Sarlin thinks the op-ed was. "There's a pretty massive tactical signal here," Sarlin tweeted, "which is to pivot away from defending the behavior (which has been a brutal slog so far for those who've tried) and instead toward arguing impeachment goes too far."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/05/media/tucker-carlson-op-ed-ukraine-trump-impeachment/index.html

They are definitely starting to pivot to “Yeah, he definitely did it and it was definitely wrong but he should face no consequences.” Impeachment exists to hold a president accountable, it’s the appropriate action and is being used exactly as it was intended. In fact, I’d say Congress is obliged to pursue it. Very telling that this is their new tactic, it shows the evidence is just becoming overwhelming.

 

[MikeMcMann]

They don't know how to defend him

Ya that is because his normal answer would be to say 'Trump did not say that. Don't believe what you heard.'. But he knows that the spin cycle changes so often that next week Trump will say some version of 'ya i said. And I have every right to ask them' again.

 

[bobgeese]

Tucker Carlson says Trump's Ukraine call was inappropriate: 'There's no way to spin this'

A tactical signal?
That's what NBC's Benjy Sarlin thinks the op-ed was. "There's a pretty massive tactical signal here," Sarlin tweeted, "which is to pivot away from defending the behavior (which has been a brutal slog so far for those who've tried) and instead toward arguing impeachment goes too far."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/05/media/tucker-carlson-op-ed-ukraine-trump-impeachment/index.html

I’m seriously starting to think you lefties have been driven insane by Donald Trump.


You claim to see signals everywhere. Trump signaling Putin, Putin signaling trump, now tucker is signaling, who? The right wing punditry? Do you really think Newt Gingrich is suddenly gone tow the democrat party line?


I hope your fantasies keep you in good spirits for the next 5 years of Trumps presidency.

 

[LuchaBear]

You do realize the guy on the other end of the phone has already stated there was nothing wrong, right?


Good luck on the second whistleblower. Surely, this time it will be the end of drumph...

Ya because Ukraine is in a position to be telling everyone that U.S did in fact try to withhold their funds.. President Clown Baby would throw a fit and Ukraine could be completely fucked if their funding ever stopped. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.. Imagine being so duped that this doesn't even cross your mind.

It's not like we have two whistleblowers, text evidence and Republican senators saying different, let's just close this case because the vulnerable Ukrainian President said it wasn't so..

 

[bobgeese]

Ya because Ukraine is in a position to be telling everyone that U.S did in fact try to withhold their funds.. President Clown Baby would throw a fit and Ukraine could be completely fucked if their funding ever stopped. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.. Imagine being so duped that this doesn't even cross your mind.

It's not like we have two whistleblowers, text evidence and Republican senators saying different, let's just close this case because the vulnerable Ukrainian President said it wasn't so..

Btw, maybe you should read the next line of text Rachael left out of her show.

They stated in the text specifically there was no QPQ.



That was a nice try though...

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

https://news.google.com/articles/CB...WJlY2F1c2Utb2Y_YW1w?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

According to Axios, President Trump told House Republicans during a conference call Friday that he was urged by Energy Secretary Rick Perry to make his July 25 phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Trump told fellow party members that "not a lot of people know this, but I didn't even want to make the call," a source who was on the conference call told the news outlet.

"The only reason I made the call was because Rick asked me to. Something about an LNG [liquified natural gas] plant," Trump added.

This stuff is fascinating to watch

 

[MikeMcMann]

I think the dirt digging is way less important than being prepared to sacrifice any sort of coherent foreign policy for domestic political gain.
It's always been obvious that Trump's foreign policy is driven by domestic politics, but not to the extent that this reveals.

I don't think anyone who pays attention to this whole impeachment affair would really disagree with this. The more interesting question is what is the counterweight that makes this sort of behavior acceptable? I find it hard to reconcile that it is simply a distaste for the American left, though that's what sticks out.

I would disagree. I think Ruprecht is close but off a little.

I say this without intended hyperbole. I don't think Trump cares one iota about domestic policy either other than for a perception that he is getting wins.

I think Trump sacrifices any Foreign and/or Domestic policy for anything that benefits Trump Org directly in a heart beat. China and Russia and Saudi can get 100% of what they want even if it is obvious massively harmful to the US as long as Trump org, profits outweigh the flack or ability to spin it.

People say Trump is a narcissist but he is more of a narcissist/sociopath blend. I think Trump would gladly author a book called "Winning is all that Matters!' and to him winning means at any and all costs including destroying anyone, honest or not, who gets in the way with lies or jail or whatever. I don't think he would disown that sentiment at all as long as in the end 'he won'. I think he would say all the moralizing is for losers. You WIN, period.

 

[Confucamus]

Lol, you are so desperate to be right and change the subject that you actually deleted your own post that I quoted where YOU brought up the # of counties as an argument why Trump winning "wasn't close"... that is so comically pathetic.

I don't know why my post won't show up, but I did not delete it. I can edit posts, but to make it completely disappear like that isn't something I know how to do.

But yeah, I said Trump won in an electoral landslide, which he did. You want to change the subject and talk about how Obama did for some reason. Not sure what offends you so much about Trump's victory but you don't seem to be able to have any type of productive conversation about it. Rather, you seem obsessed with "concession noted" type of posts that nobody buys.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

He literally said China should open an investigation into the Bidens on national television. Damn you guys are delusional.

How does saying they should translate to asking them to do it?

Delusional indeed.