Economy Trump calls for negative interest rates

[ElKarlo]

But still, all the names I listed complained under the Obama years.

You asked and I told you



Rick Perry, now Trump’s Energy Secretary, certainly agreed. Ben Bernanke’s policies of zero interest rates and quantitative easing, Perry said, was a “travesty that young people in America are seeing their dollars devalued.” He added, “if you are allowing the Federal Reserve to be used for political purposes, that it would be almost treasonous.”

This was during the great “treasonous” years, when republicans and the tea party called everything treasonous

QE had a double edged sword, its now impacting and helping the young. While until recently it hurt them via making savings a pointless venture.

 

[7437]

QE had a double edged sword, its now impacting and helping the young. While until recently it hurt them via making savings a pointless venture.

You think that interest should be high during recessions and low during booms?

The exact opposite of economists

 

[ElKarlo]

You think that interest should be high during recessions and low during booms?

The exact opposite of economists

No, didnt say that. QE, which made rates be basically zero is different. 2% is low, 0% is another animal. Its also different when its low for years and years.

 

[brackis1]

Yea I read that tweet at first I thought he was saying a 0 or below but no he's saying zero or less then it is. But I am sure the TDS will not allow you to change your mind.

Holy fuck I can't believe you actually believe this.

 

[brackis1]

TDS makes them ignorant and quite frankly, unteachable. These people vote is based on hatred of the other party, and what their candidate looks like, not on policy. There's no point in even talking to them anymore. The best thing we can do is beat the shit out of them in 2020 and remove them from power.

lol holy fuck
"they're so ignorant and unteachable, all they want to do his hate the other party and vote against them, not for policy....
which is why I hate them so much and will vote to stop them."

The lack of self-awareness in complete morons is one of the most incredible psychological phenomenon to have spread across our country, and not exclusive to one ideology.

 

[Last Samurai]

What is negative interest rate? They pay me to borrow money?

That's right!

You get paid interest for every dollar you owe.

As if this world wasn't bizarre enough already.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Cruz is arguing to abolish the Fed, there, not against any specific inflation rate policy. He also represents the wing of libertarian outsiders when he voices that economic strategy (as owed to Paul).

Yeah, this is an example, but this is also an example of why Kasich is regarded as a centrist. He criticizes an artificially low interest rate policy is incentivizing investment for the wealthy, but not necessarily translating into higher wages (despite that the cost of everything is going up anyway).

I'm going to assume that you simply didn't read this link.

You can only lead a horse to water. At this point you're being obtuse.

 

[Madmick]

You can only lead a horse to water. At this point you're being obtuse.

Your divining rod might work better if you actually read your links.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Your divining rod might work better if you actually read your links.

Do you need me to draw a picture for you to understand how what Cruz and Ryan said are cases of decrying low interest rates as a matter of economic health?

 

[Madmick]

Do you need me to draw a picture for you to understand how what Cruz and Ryan said are cases of decrying low interest rates as a matter of economic health?

I believe you're facile enough to believe that they are, but they're not.

 

[Richie Madano]

Cant say I think this is a good idea.





This is a move that struggling economies make, because it is not a good thing. Trump is obviously ignorant as hell and unfit to be president.

GOAT president

 

[Andy Capp]

You can only lead a horse to water. At this point you're being obtuse.

Can you cite an example not named Sean Hannity?

These 2 articles are somewhat relevant, though the 2nd is not necessarily a direct answer to your question.
https://www.vox.com/2014/9/17/6219247/obamas-biggest-economic-policy-mistake
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018...r-interest-rate-policy-he-once-supported.html

But here's a direct answer,
"Under Powell's predecessors, Janet Yellen and Ben Bernanke, the Fed's board endured criticism from House Republicans over its decision to pursue a bond purchase program designed to lower long-term borrowing rates and to leave its key rate at a record low near zero for seven years. The critics charged that those policies would eventually produce destructive bubbles in the prices of stocks and other assets and, eventually, undesirably high inflation.

But so far, Trump's reshaping of the Fed's board reflects a generally status quo approach.

"Trump's criticisms during the campaign have not been borne out by his decisions on who to put on the Fed," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. "I don't think this new Fed views the extraordinary steps the central bank took during the crisis as out of bounds."

Since the Fed began raising rates in December 2015, the pace has been modest and gradual: One quarter-point rate increase in 2015, one in 2016, three in 2017 and one so far this year. Even now, the Fed's benchmark short-term rate, which influences consumer and business loan rates throughout the economy, remains in a low range of 1.5 to 1.75 per cent.


When the Fed announced its most recent rate hike last month, it forecast that it would raise rates twice more this year. Powell, a Republican who was originally nominated to the Fed's board by President Barack Obama, has so far signalled an approach to rate hikes that appears similar to the cautious one Yellen pursued." -- cbc.ca

So Trump on Trump (criticizing the optical effect in the middle of a campaign).

I thought you'd have Republicans decrying low interest rates as a matter of actual economic health. As I recall that has never really been their thing.

Hm?

-


Aside, something else I came across exposing yet another Trump lie, that before him no one was doing anything about China's shenanigans,
The Obama administration filed a complaint Monday with the World Trade Organization, alleging that China has illegally subsidized automotive exports and undercut American suppliers.

 

[Andy Capp]

@Madmick
This article is from 2015:
https://thinkprogress.org/forget-in...-reserve-to-destroy-the-economy-d7d463e42f57/

Ignore the inflammatory title long enough to read the article and you'll find a plethora of quotes, as if that were your main objection to the OP (I am not convinced of that). I know you think (or rather try very hard to convince yourself that) you're equally critical of left and right and that somehow makes your self-righteous rantings OK, but you're not and they aren't.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

What does monetizing debt mean? Like wouldn't a bond be monetizing debt?

I need to take an economics class. I can self teach myself this shit lol.

 

[Madmick]

These 2 articles are somewhat relevant, though the 2nd is not necessarily a direct answer to your question.
https://www.vox.com/2014/9/17/6219247/obamas-biggest-economic-policy-mistake
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018...r-interest-rate-policy-he-once-supported.html

But here's a direct answer,
"Under Powell's predecessors, Janet Yellen and Ben Bernanke, the Fed's board endured criticism from House Republicans over its decision to pursue a bond purchase program designed to lower long-term borrowing rates and to leave its key rate at a record low near zero for seven years. The critics charged that those policies would eventually produce destructive bubbles in the prices of stocks and other assets and, eventually, undesirably high inflation.

But so far, Trump's reshaping of the Fed's board reflects a generally status quo approach.

"Trump's criticisms during the campaign have not been borne out by his decisions on who to put on the Fed," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. "I don't think this new Fed views the extraordinary steps the central bank took during the crisis as out of bounds."

Since the Fed began raising rates in December 2015, the pace has been modest and gradual: One quarter-point rate increase in 2015, one in 2016, three in 2017 and one so far this year. Even now, the Fed's benchmark short-term rate, which influences consumer and business loan rates throughout the economy, remains in a low range of 1.5 to 1.75 per cent.


When the Fed announced its most recent rate hike last month, it forecast that it would raise rates twice more this year. Powell, a Republican who was originally nominated to the Fed's board by President Barack Obama, has so far signalled an approach to rate hikes that appears similar to the cautious one Yellen pursued." -- cbc.ca

Hm?

-


Aside, something else I came across exposing yet another Trump lie, that before him no one was doing anything about China's shenanigans,
The Obama administration filed a complaint Monday with the World Trade Organization, alleging that China has illegally subsidized automotive exports and undercut American suppliers.

@Madmick
This article is from 2015:
https://thinkprogress.org/forget-in...-reserve-to-destroy-the-economy-d7d463e42f57/

Ignore the inflammatory title long enough to read the article and you'll find a plethora of quotes, as if that were your main objection to the OP (I am not convinced of that). I know you think (or rather try very hard to convince yourself that) you're equally critical of left and right and that somehow makes your self-righteous rantings OK, but you're not and they aren't.

This prog article has already been posted, and yet again, when criticism of related (but not direct) policies aren't the direct issue, criticisms voiced by Republicans during this period were forwarded due to remarkable length of those cuts in the middle of a recession. This is not the current state of the economy, nor of the sequencing of the cuts. Oversight of the Fed does not entail a permanent commitment to near-zero rates, nor does it entail austere measures.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

I believe you're facile enough to believe that they are, but they're not.

When someone is talking about the FED and complains about commodity prices going up, and says we need to move to "sound money", and says the FED shouldn't be "juicing" the economy, how do you conclude the person isn't condemning the low interest rates? What exactly do you think Cruz had in mind when he talked about "juicing"?

You said Cruz was arguing to abolish the FED there. No he wasn't:

"I think the Fed should get out of the business of trying to juice our economy, and simply be focused on sound money and monetary stability, ideally tied to gold," Cruz said during the debate at the University of Colorado.

Would you like me to break down the Ryan article?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Rick Santorum was a real big mouth about this during his failed presidential run if I’m not mistaken. And I’m pretty sure I’m not mistaken when I say that.

Rick Perry said the same shit as well and so did Romney.

@Jack V Savage can you corroborate

I don't see how it's still going. It's not even a controversial point. And the guy asked for examples and has gotten many. There are many more (Moore and Kudlow are good examples, given their positions and, ugh, influence in the party). Mick was here in the WR during the period when Republicans were claiming that low rates were going to cause inflation to soar any minute now (and many nutters were insisting that inflation was already soaring but there was a conspiracy to hide it). It's crazy how that's apparently been memory-holed. It would be more of a challenge to find an example of a notable Republican who commented on interest rates during the Obama years and was in favor of keeping them low.

 

[Madmick]

When someone is talking about the FED and complains about commodity prices going up, and says we need to move to "sound money", and says the FED shouldn't be "juicing" the economy, how do you conclude the person isn't condemning the low interest rates? What exactly do you think Cruz had in mind when he talked about "juicing"?

You said Cruz was arguing to abolish the FED there. No he wasn't:


Would you like me to break down the Ryan article?

He's proposing the abolition of controlled interest rates as they exist independent of a basal standard like gold. Per "juiced", I think he's arguing the Fed shouldn't be imposing an artificially low interest rate value on our currency for a protracted period of time because at some point fighting natural currency fluctuations will trigger a rubber-band effect in the market that can no longer be constrained by a central authority. Here's a wonderful and concise article on what's at stake here:
https://www.barrons.com/articles/th...e-for-lowering-rates-back-to-zero-51562751000

These are traditional economic ideals espoused by conservative economists. Ironically, while the prog article that's been cited numerous times in this thread presents the reasonable argument by Fed bureaucrats against political oversight, they themselves embraced the same policy of managing a real inflation target proposed by Rubio, for example, modeled on the ECB. At some point most agree it must come up, but neither party wants to be party on the throne while this occurs. Since timing is the porridge in these modern times, I'm humored to needle anyone who suggests this is a matter of partisan hypocrisy regarding interest rates. At the most insane end, you have Cruz and Paul, who effectively want to end the Fed, and return us to a time when inflation was wholly dictated by market fluctations. Yet, on the other hand, you have the majority of conservative economists & politicians who have traditionally advocated for modest rates; so long as those rates aren't an extraordinarily unprecedented control imposed on a collapsed economy.

 

[Andy Capp]

This prog article has already been posted, and yet again, when criticism of related (but not direct) policies aren't the direct issue, criticisms voiced by Republicans during this period were forwarded due to remarkable length of those cuts in the middle of a recession. This is not the current state of the economy, nor of the sequencing of the cuts. Oversight of the Fed does not entail a permanent commitment to near-zero rates, nor does it entail austere measures.

There's an expression in pool, quit talking and start chalking. Similarly, my mother (hand to God) used to say, "Shit or get off the pot." The sources I provided contain many examples of Republican leadership critical of the Fed's actions while staying silent upon the appointment of a chairman known to agree with those policies and found to continue them.

Your position was that Republicans didn't criticize the low interest rates because they agree with it on an ideological level as some sort of defence of Republican hypocrisy. I proved this is not the case, but you're still dancing around trying to assert irrelevant technicalities and avoid admitting even so small an error as being wrong on a single, not very important point.

 

[K-Bag]

This is it!!!