Media Tom Aspinall says he was watching cro cop and implies his level of skill and that time period doesn't compare to modern mma, timestamp is 17:59

[mkess101]

Fair enough. I honestly think Kharitonov's speed, power, and chin would lead to him beating the Russians mentioned, but I agree that Volkov is criminally underrated and Pav... meh, he's dangerous. The Sergei that arguably beat Big Nog in the HW GP would beat everyone at HW not named Jon Jones in my eyes too, but I admit I'm a Sergei nuthugger.

I was there too, I assure you, and I can confidently say the UFC HW division has been in a state of devolution for the past decade or so, with HW fighters seemingly forgetting how to freakin' grapple. There are notable exceptions, and the standouts from today would be competitive in any era of fighting, but the average skill level of the big men in the UFC has unquestionably dropped.

I generally agree. I said it before, I think the depth in the early 2000's was clearly better than today. I just think the gap isn't as wide as is made out. Because what inevitably happens is (and this is putting the nostalgia aside), people veer toward hyperbole. It's not enough to say "HW was deeper and better back then". It inevitably devolves into "OMG the HW's are all trash now!" Which ignores the simple advances in athletic ability, size, the use of technology in training etc.

Someone like you is rational and not prone to exaggeration in this discussion. That's the exception unfortunately though.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

I generally agree. I said it before, I think the depth in the early 2000's was clearly better than today. I just think the gap isn't as wide as is made out. Because what inevitably happens is (and this is putting the nostalgia aside), people veer toward hyperbole. It's not enough to say "HW was deeper and better back then". It inevitably devolves into "OMG the HW's are all trash now!" Which ignores the simple advances in athletic ability, size, the use of technology in training etc.

Someone like you is rational and not prone to exaggeration in this discussion. That's the exception unfortunately though.

And just like that we find common ground.

Kudos, bruh.

 

[snaportap21]

Holy redundancy, Batman.

Not necessarily. There are many right handed southpaws who choose to stand with their dominant hand forward. Rich Franklin and Anderson Silva are two examples.

 

[snugglecakes]

the pride prime was pretty trash at heavyweight. You had a buncha 225ish-230 pound cruiser weight is loserweights at the top. THey would have jerked the curtain during the first dark match at wcw thunder along with the other bottom card manlets. IF u aint billed as 270 plus pounds of roid muscle then GTFO.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

he's right. prime cro cop would demolish him.

I’m not even a fan of Tom and no he wouldn’t. Tom wins easy.

 

[TGArthur]

Jones will smoke this clown. His training is next level for this fight. watch out

 

[mkess101]

I’m not even a fan of Tom and no he wouldn’t. Tom wins easy.

IDK about "easy" but there's a huge size difference and Tom is also faster and more athletic. Cro Cop had the more well rounded striking game for sure.

The head to head hypothetical imo illustrates the weird anomaly that is HW. A 30 lb size difference is a big deal. Aspinall and Cro Cop really aren't the same size fighter, but they're in the same division.

 

[Taric]

Aspinall has fought almost nobody in his career to determine if he's even good in the first place

 

[mkess101]

Aspinall has fought almost nobody in his career to determine if he's even good in the first place

His last 5 opponents have been top 10 ranked. All KO's.

Yes, you can say the division is weak but he can only beat who's there.

Are Trevor Berbick, James Smith, Pinlklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, almost 40 year old washed Larry Holmes,
Tony Tubbs, cruiserweight Michael Spinks etc etc all elite all time great HW boxers?

 

[Royce Greasy]

Aspinall has fought almost nobody in his career to determine if he's even good in the first place

Yes that's what I noticed people talk about Tom as if he's not only the best HW currently which I agree with but that he's superior to anyone in the past as well, he beat 4 good fighters lots of time for him to get exposed and I know it will happen, the real claim to be a great fighter is how long you stay undefeated while in the number 1 spot so far Tom has one of the criteria he's in the number 1 spot atm but hasn't fought enough yet for the claims being made by people on here.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Running through the UFC's top ten all in the first round is a great accomplishment. Making it seem like it's inferior to the past is really dumb.

Also, a problem when people compare the present to the past is that they're literally going off of current events when grading the current guys. Any HW who has recently loss will naturally look bad. Meanwhile, the past is usually generically bundled up - like a lot of people are comparing March 2025 to 2003-2007. The current month to a 4 year span, so of course the latter will have "more people".

Tom would be a major problem for any of the HWs of the 2000s. Most of those guys weren't as big as him, and Tom isn't exactly lacking in skill.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Lol rare Big Tom L

He should check in with this boy and kickboxing coach Rico Verhoven

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Running through the UFC's top ten all in the first round is a great accomplishment. Making it seem like it's inferior to the past is really dumb.

Also, a problem when people compare the present to the past is that they're literally going off of current events when grading the current guys. Any HW who has recently loss will naturally look bad. Meanwhile, the past is usually generically bundled up - like a lot of people are comparing March 2025 to 2003-2007. The current month to a 4 year span, so of course the latter will have "more people".

Tom would be a major problem for any of the HWs of the 2000s. Most of those guys weren't as big as him, and Tom isn't exactly lacking in skill.

The elites from 2005-2015 would be just as big of a problem for Tom.

 

[Satchm0]

I think he should shut the f up about it and respect the OGs.

This guy basic as fuck too, fast hands and decent striking and grappling at the end of the day. He forgets to mention the HWs are embarrassing right now and he just happen to be the best one in it.

Who's the best guy he beat anyways? Volkov? Sergei who lost to Volkov? Blaydes who got besmirched by Sergei?

F aspinall and War Crocop! PRIDE NEVER DIE!

Middle weight

Legit...kicking boxing, not MMA

Middleweight

Drunk Rapist

 

[Superzorro]

"Novels"? Your post is way longer than mine, bucko. And yes, being able to throw short punches with power in tight spaces that hurt people while NOT getting hit with their power shots is skill. Whether you think it is or not. You put my analysis in quotes while responding with "Derp he just trades punches". That means you truly don't understand what you're watching. Which is fine, it's not a crime but attempting to belittle me breaking it down is absolutely comical.

I didn't say he should be viewed the same as Fedor or Cro Cop YET. He hasn't accomplished what they did, of course. He has a ways to go, but of course no matter what he does and who he beats the nostalgia will override certain people's brains and they'll spend countless posts explaining why Kharitonov was such a huge win back in the day. I was around, I know what I was watching.

But there’s a distinction. I’m writing novels to dismantle your argument. You’re writing novels about what amounts to like a minute total octagon time, which is ridiculous.

Yeah but you have to also consider the caveat that they’re not recovering after one shot. That would be impressive if he was doing it a more steady and consistent rate, multiple times throughout the duration of a fire fight. But if it’s one exchange per fight, it’s not all that impressive to me or saying much.
Anyone can win one exchange. Ask any combat sport athlete. It’s easy to be the best in one round. Impressive is being the best down the stretch.
I understand what I’m watching— I’m just not impressed with big shiny objects. You’re being fooled by that and jumping the gun. And don’t get me wrong, blood n’ guts and rock ‘em sock ‘em robots are exciting. But there’s a difference. I’d be lying if I said what he’s doing is on the level of say a GSP or Prime Jones, or Prime Overeem or prime Adesanya. I’d say it sits somewhere in the Brock Lesnar category of ring craft (and even that is being generous considering how little we’ve actually seen).

Yet implies that he has displayed the skill necessary to get there and it’s just a matter of doing it. I’m not saying he doesn’t eventually prove it. But to assume that it’s just a given he can is jumping the gun on him. That’s a fact. There are more questions about Aspinall than answers. Aspinall himself would look at you funny for coming to this conclusion, based on how little we’ve actually seen on him, if you listen to what he said here.

If nostalgia doesn’t make it to where you’re comparing two minutes of octagon time, to ten years of dominance then it’s good in my books.

 

[JustOnce]

Middle weight

Legit...kicking boxing, not MMA

Middleweight


Drunk Rapist

 

[mkess101]

But there’s a distinction. I’m writing novels to dismantle your argument. You’re writing novels about what amounts to like a minute total octagon time, which is ridiculous.

Yeah but you have to also consider the caveat that they’re not recovering after one shot. That would be impressive if he was doing it a more steady and consistent rate, multiple times throughout the duration of a fire fight. But if it’s one exchange per fight, it’s not all that impressive to me or saying much.
Anyone can win one exchange. Ask any combat sport athlete. It’s easy to be the best in one round. Impressive is being the best down the stretch.
I understand what I’m watching— I’m just not impressed with big shiny objects. You’re being fooled by that and jumping the gun. And don’t get me wrong, blood n’ guts and rock ‘em sock ‘em robots are exciting. But there’s a difference. I’d be lying if I said what he’s doing is on the level of say a GSP or Prime Jones, or Prime Overeem or prime Adesanya. I’d say it sits somewhere in the Brock Lesnar category of ring craft (and even that is being generous considering how little we’ve actually seen).

Yet implies that he has displayed the skill necessary to get there and it’s just a matter of doing it. I’m not saying he doesn’t eventually prove it. But to assume that it’s just a given he can is jumping the gun on him. That’s a fact. There are more questions about Aspinall than answers. Aspinall himself would look at you funny for coming to this conclusion, based on how little we’ve actually seen on him, if you listen to what he said here.

If nostalgia doesn’t make it to where you’re comparing two minutes of octagon time, to ten years of dominance then it’s good in my books.

And again you show you don't actually understand what you're seeing. He's not (let me repeat...NOT) playing rock em sock em robots. That's the insurmountable problem with your entire "dismantling". You aren't dismantling anything when your whole premise is inherently flawed.

You're framing is as though he goes in and just swings with his opponent until someone falls down and because he's faster or whatever he's always the one who wins. Which is sheer idiocy. He's setting traps, feinting and drawing out his opponent to be able to counter. This is obvious to anyone who has even a modest understanding of the sport. And you're making yourself look utterly lost my comparing him to Brock Lesnar? And then doubling down on the inanity by saying that because he has power and ends the fight the first time he does it...that means he's just a "shiny object".

It's quite honestly amazing you've chosen to make yourself look so clueless like this. You didn't need to. You chose to.

 

[Superzorro]

And again you show you don't actually understand what you're seeing. He's not (let me repeat...NOT) playing rock em sock em robots. That's the insurmountable problem with your entire "dismantling". You aren't dismantling anything when your whole premise is inherently flawed.

You're framing is as though he goes in and just swings with his opponent until someone falls down and because he's faster or whatever he's always the one who wins. Which is sheer idiocy. He's setting traps, feinting and drawing out his opponent to be able to counter. This is obvious to anyone who has even a modest understanding of the sport. And you're making yourself look utterly lost my comparing him to Brock Lesnar? And then doubling down on the inanity by saying that because he has power and ends the fight the first time he does it...that means he's just a "shiny object".

It's quite honestly amazing you've chosen to make yourself look so clueless like this. You didn't need to. You chose to.

He is. You’re just sugar coating it to make it sound more impressive than it actually is.

And yes, in terms of athleticism over craft, I’d rate Aspinall’s skills the same way I rate Lesnar’s skills. Obviously, they have vastly different styles. But that one might have gone over your head. If the only way you can combat my argument is through misrepresentation, that’s pretty pathetic.

You’re just offended, because he’s your hero. And that’s ok. But you can’t actually prove what I’m saying wrong. If you really think what you’re saying is true, and he’s shown to be a technical fighter, let’s get on a voice call and go over exactly where you’re seeing this in his fights.

I doubt you want to do that though, because you know it doesn’t exist.

 

[orca]

Cro-Cop would be a killer at LHW today. He fought in the lows 220s in his prime as a HW.

yeah if hes handpicked strikers like poatan
ofcourse hell have an advantage

 

[orca]

even tommy boy, the arguably #1 or #2 best fighter in the world, says modern mma is more competitive than back in the day.
are you saying you have more knowledge than the literal best heavyweight fighter in the world?

RIP sherdog, forum full of 40s-50s dad bods idolizing their heroes in the 90s and early 00s.


145: ilia > prime aldo
155: makhachev or khabib > anyone else, bj penn, frankie edgar, ben hendo, eddie alvarez
185: khamzat or dricus > prime silva
265: aspinall > prime cain / prime cro cop / prime whoever


the only divisions where the current modern champs are worse than the old guard is 170 and 205.

prime gsp and prime jones will likely never be equaled in terms of performances or skill in those divisions.

how can you say prime aspinal is better than any HW?
is aspinals wrestling better than cain or dc?
who has he outwrestled?
is prime aspinals cardio better?
wich high level striker did prime aspinal beat?
wich high level bjj fighter did aspinal strangle?

we need facts not opinions