Media Tom Aspinall says he was watching cro cop and implies his level of skill and that time period doesn't compare to modern mma, timestamp is 17:59

[mkess101]

CroCop career in kb and boxing is way more than 17 fights and you are specifically selecting one of the few fighters that shares similarities with him.
It's Alex and Izzy and... stop, this is not even statistically relevant.

Other guy said it, but guys who come from long amateur wrestling backgrounds (of which I'd hope I don't need to tell you there are a TON) have beaten their bodies up way worse than guys who come from kickboxing backgrounds.

 

[RoseHDCovington]

There's more money and thus a larger talent pool today

This isn't basketball

 

[RoseHDCovington]

Let's give today's HWs a 10 minute 1st rnd and let's see how technical they are. Also today's HWs IMO aren't more technical, they've purely adapted to the rule set and fighting platform (cage) of the UFC. Today's HWs bar a few are completely lost on the ground and lack the fluidity of guys from previous generations.

Damn bro, you didn't have to put all the facts in one post

 

[Bork Neslar]

He would have beaten "prime" Crop Cop with ease, especially if they fought in a cage.

 

[RoseHDCovington]

Refreshing genuine fighter
But I still think Francis, Jones, Gane, Volkov and him can easily hang with the Pride ones and demolish each of 'em

Gane gets beaten by the big 3 in PRIDE. Can't grapple (Fedor and nog sub him as easy as Jones did) and Cro Cop had better stand up, is quicker and just as powerful. Gane kickboxed in French highschool gymnasiums, his level was nowhere near k1

 

[Lee Danger]

Other guy said it, but guys who come from long amateur wrestling backgrounds (of which I'd hope I don't need to tell you there are a TON) have beaten their bodies up way worse than guys who come from kickboxing backgrounds.

ok, crocop was a fresh noob with the same mileage of the fighter he was being compared to, Gonzaga, and it's plenty of hws with a long wrestling background.
BTW obviously Mirko didn't have an amateur career too.

 

[RoseHDCovington]

It's a give and take. Pride fans will mock someone like Lewis as a regression, but there certainly weren't dudes his size throwing spinning heel kicks and flying knees like he and others do.

Which incidentally also would've given them the best chance of upsetting any of those Pride fighters.

Cro Cop never seen any spinning shit in PRIDE? You sure about that?

 

[RoseHDCovington]

Crocop has more wins than Aspinall has MMA fights and ended his career on a 10 fight win streak, this doesn't include his K1 career

Crocop also fought 8 times in one year.

People conflate becoming a second rate youtube influencer with being an MMA great, Aspinall hasn't done anything remotely close to what Mirko did in his career yet

Cro Cop is my favorite fighter of all time but I have you disagree. Tom has a UFC belt and would have the undisputed belt if Jones wasn't a complete pussy. That would most definitely surpass Cro Cops MMA accomplishments

 

[RoseHDCovington]

CroCop competed during 2000s K1. The highest level of kickboxing.

Something we might never see again or come close.

By Tom Aspinal logic, Glory> prime K-1

 

[markg171]

Also, I dont really get why guys who have long wrestling careers do not count. Wrestling is more damaging on the joints and neck than kickboxing is.

There are countless examples of MMA fighters who were former boxers, kickboxers, sambo, BJJ, etc., returning to these sports and having great success.

There are zero examples of this for wrestling. But everybody always tries to handwave this inconvenient fact away.

 

[markg171]

if cro cop and gonzaga weren't at their very peaks in 2007, i'd love to know when their peaks were. cro cop was coming off the GP in pride. gonzaga was undefeated in the UFC. if not then, then when?

did cro cop magically fall off a cliff between september of '06 and april of '07? i'd love to know.

as a guess, i'd assume, conveniently, his prime existed perfectly between losses.

These people would honestly tell you with a straight face that had CC and Fedor fought in the GP like they were supposed to, win or lose CC would've been in his peak then.

Total complete coincidence that he's suddenly not though when that didn't happen.

 

[RoseHDCovington]

Other guy said it, but guys who come from long amateur wrestling backgrounds (of which I'd hope I don't need to tell you there are a TON) have beaten their bodies up way worse than guys who come from kickboxing backgrounds.

Beaten their bodies, but what about brain damage? Getting punched and kicked in the head would have more of an effect on a person than rolling around on the floor for 8 secs at a time with another man

 

[RoseHDCovington]

He would have beaten "prime" Crop Cop with ease, especially if they fought in a cage.

Yeah, division 1 wrestler Aspinal, right? He's known for putting guys on the cage, grabbing a double, right?

 

[mkess101]

ok, crocop was a fresh noob with the same mileage of the fighter he was being compared to, Gonzaga, and it's plenty of hws with a long wrestling background.
BTW obviously Mirko didn't have an amateur career too.

Sigh. I'm not here to trash Cro Cop. I loved the guy too. But you honestly dont know what you're talking about.

I spent almost 6 years training/fighting/getting other guys ready for fights/cornering. Days on the mat were WAY harder on the body than striking days. Grappling plain and simple beats up the body worse. It's not debatable, and that was universal among everyone at our gym.

Do you know anything about Gabe Gonzaga? Dude was
IBJJF world champion at the black belt level and an ADCC medalist. Do you know how many grueling hours on the mat beating the hell out of your body it takes to get to that level?

 

[mkess101]

Beaten their bodies, but what about brain damage? Getting punched and kicked in the head would have more of an effect on a person than rolling around on the floor for 8 secs at a time with another man

That's a factor sure (head trauma). Not sure where you get 8 seconds...? Anyway, at our gym we probably had the same amount of concussions (and TBH...this was quite a long time ago so we really were just saying "getting your bell rung" and there were likely a shit ton of undiagnosed concussions) from guys landing on their heads grappling as from sparring.

People focus on the actual competitions, but it's the daily training that's what actually beats the shit out of you. Both body and head trauma. I think now gyms are (hopefully) more cognizant of making sure guys aren't taking head trauma day in day out like it used to be.

 

[markg171]

View attachment 1088661
Cro Cop never seen any spinning shit in PRIDE? You sure about that?

Are you seriously comparing CC being potentially mentally and physically prepared for a K1 champ to potentially throw a spinning kick in their fight vs a guy like "My balls was hot" Derrick Lewis shockingly doing so?

Jesus Christ.

I also don't even understand your point period given that did get passed his guard and was a milimeter away from landing and KOing him because it did surprise him. K1 champ Mark Hunt shocked CC with a spinning kick, but seeing the Black Beast suddenly throw one doesn't? What bizarro world nonsense logic is that?

Feel free to say he loses elsewhere or before this, and I don't disagree, but fuck off with the nonsense notion that people wouldn't have been gobsmacked to see someone like BB do that for the first time in one of his fights 20 years ago. They're still shocked when he does it today because it doesn't seem possible for someone like him.

 

[fizzlehiss]

It's still a 50/50 because how roided out of their minds they were in Pride. Just because Fedor looked a little chubby doesn't mean he wasn't blasting stuff just like Josh Barnett.

 

[Squintz]

You see Tom, this is why you’re a wanker.

 

[Squarechoke]

Someone please KO this long-faced British goober soon please.

You have a name based of a Diaz brother and you keep whining because someone said something you didn't like? Although when I think about it it does make sense as the Diaz bros were very hypocritical that way.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Beaten their bodies, but what about brain damage? Getting punched and kicked in the head would have more of an effect on a person than rolling around on the floor for 8 secs at a time with another man

That doesnt have much to do with ending a fighters prime though. Grappling takes a lot out of your joints.

The second sentence is really odd. Rolling around for 8 seconds? Do you think that grapplers only do 8 seconds of work, if so, why don't you train for 8 seconds and go win some competitions?

MMA fans really are the most ignorant sports fans.