While I could well still be wrong, you didn't actually refute my point.
You instead gave me the theory for what is based on, which I wasn't talking about, and then assumed my martial arts background and got it wrong. I'm actually a proponent of some chinese martial arts, my background is in Muay Thai and I've got experience in Shaolin (I'm not anywhere near as experienced in it though). There are a handful of guys here who argue for proper application of chinese martial arts, I am one of them. That doesn't exclude me from being critical of them, however.
My contention is not whether or not a wing chun slap to the neck is going to hurt, I am rather trying to figure out WHY there are hundred and two slaps to the neck. When I talk about disrupting Qi, I am not saying that Wing Chun thinks that you will defeat the opponent by disruption Qi. I was hypothesising that could be why it is so slappy. But like I say, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
The implication there, with how hyperactive wing chun is, is that it was probably not pressure tested from the start. I could believe that it has degraded over time as it's been further removed from it's original form, but the oldest wing chun videos I have seen have been more of the same.
I would be surprised if wing chun, and indeed most traditional martial arts, were ever used for self defence with any real regularity. Japan in particular has a problem with romanticising their martial arts and putting them in scenarios that didn't happen, like the idea of the humble farmer defending himself with karate. In real life karate centuries ago was only a pursuit of those with wealth and privileged backgrounds, that humble farmer would have never learned karate. Which is why I imagine Wing Chun properly faces similar romantising.
Ok so you have some background in cma.
But your statements about Wing Chun and by implication Southern Kung Fu arts being 'theoretical' systems that were not tested is a bizaare theory and based on flawed logic of backward rationalization.
You are trying to say that because we have not seen it much in MMA (we have actually seen a version of it which I posted where it resembles somewhat dirty boxing and MT) that it 'never worked'.
Having been around here a while, and remembering the Coleman era and laughing at the guys who used to say Karate was just a bs art and wrestling and BJJ was the only legit systems before Machida came along (or before Pete Williams head kicked Coleman) I am surprised that people just don't get it and repeat the same errors of thinking even now.
The video I posted shows WC working in MMA. End of. The fact there is only really one WingChun MMA team out there led by Alan Orr (who is also a BJJ blackbelt) doesn't mean it can't be replicated at a higher level. It's just that that is such a small percentage of the total WC community that it is not happening on a wider scale. The fact WC has historically been self defence and real world oriented means this is unlikely to change although there may be additional MMA WC teams appearing.
However the fact that it has been done, and using WC as a base with the mechanics and techniques on the feet already ends your theory that it could never be practical.
Then we have at the elite level guys like Ferg who are using wc strategy and techniques effectively. It doesn't matter if he is not primarily a WC guy or he adds it to his type or whatever. Anyone who trains WingChun can see immediately what he is doing and is another great example of how WC can be used if trained live to produce a similar style to Ferguson at close range.
The hardest I have been hit is probably by WC guys. Elbows are also devastating. So taking away any technical strategy, there is enough power to make the style useful and practical which I have witnessed and developed also. This is not theory I know this from experience.
Then we can add the numerous accounts of it being used in real life especially in HK of the type I posted earlier.
Then let us look at historical development and what constitutes practical and 'real' in those conditions.
Your reasoning that what happens in Las Vegas sanctioned rule based sporting events on soft mats determines what is real is way off.
Rolling around on the floor for example is seldom seen in cma. Our understanding is that even in jiu jitsu it was about disabling an armoured samurai.
People carried weapons 300 years ago. Putting yourself in a position of vulnerability top or bottom on the ground for an extended period was probably an invitation to get stabbed or kicked in the head (as it is today).
A nice modern past time when combined with yoga is sport BJJ and with some MMA applications but such as style would not be worth wasting too much time in old days. A few standing submissions would be enough.
So we can see that contrary to your view, the evolution of MMA is not always more realistic. Sport BJJ for example is where the style became much less practical over time which even the Gracies talked about.
Then we have weapons skill. The WC double knives was an important part of the style. Skills translatable to other blades or a single blade or sword.
This is why so many of movements can be combined well with weapons training. This is real and practical martial (military) art not 'gloved combat sports'.
Then we have the whole 'illegal techniques' and neck chops etc. This has been discussed earlier but suffice to say this is valid martial technique and banned for a reason. You or shincheckin are free to test your belief that these are 'fantasy techniques' by going to any legit Wing Chun or high level traditional Karate school, signing a disclaimer and asking them to perform the techniques at full power . I don't recommend it. If you have reservations about the idea that answers the question.
There is plenty of evidence that it works. In fact it is technically illegal in MMA but happens sometimes and gets called a head kick or punch but is actually to the side of the neck like the kick that Holm knocked out Rousey with. WC uses these strikes alot with the forearm or side of hand. Why? Because it is combat tested and very dangerous and obviously that's why it was included.
Again , against an armed attacker these methods are 'equalizers' to an extent to disable immediately.
But hey, if thinking about these techniques as 'fantasy' gives you a sense of security or whatever then thats fine. I am actually ok with that since martial arts were never supposed be taught fully openly which is why styles purporting to teach these methods get mocked by sport stylists but whatever. Good for you with sticking to the pillow combat only since it does develop combat skill it's true even if limited.
Lastly we have barefist fighting with rules. Wong Shun Leung was famous for these (although even here obviously with no eyes, groin or neck/throat strikes)
In modern MMA as discussed WC requires integration with takedown and submission defence and proper sparring. As that training is limited thus far we rely on schools like Alan Orr and they have had some success thus far which I expect to see replicated in future more.
gave me big improvements in my hip
