The Road to Wing Chun applied in Combat Sports

[TheMaster]

Then why bother going for the niche of it then?

If the the top creme of the crop only trains a certain way and it ends up being basically generic MMA/KB, why bother looking aside from having a love for the culture of it? If we are looking at just pure pragmatic competing and fighting, hundreds of modern combat sport places are available everywhere (major city or small town); To find the rare golden goose WC gym(s) that have a similar style and approach to modern stuff means the prices will be higher than normal.

So.... why do all that effort researching where these unique rare group of WC gyms are, when the pages 1-5 on google has 10-50 gyms of boxing, KB, MT, and MMA available and for standard market prices?

Yeah you have a point....but there are fundamental differences also with especially sensitivity and techniques although outwardly it looks similar.
Also the rules limit things so everything starts to look more similar.
The WC palmstrike game is great for example but no chance to witness it in gloves fighting.

WC also has the whole additional layer of transitional to the non sport environment also and better translatability to knife or stick combat which may appeal to some.

 

[aerius]

Clearly, we should all train with Sensei Seagal, the one true master of WC.

 

[shincheckin]

Ok that's some good experience you have there.
So you're talking about starting with Ron Balicki with JkD?

Yes, WC methods are suited to knife fighting although I would agree that the whole idea of what works in knife fighting is dubious much of the time but the consensus experts in that area are the Filipino arts and they have field tested some of it. If you have as your base philosophy that what works empty hand should work with weapons you would be drawn more to the WC approach. Who's to say that wasn't even part of its origins or where it got it's 'reality' reputation?
I'm pretty sure the development of the style was from an era where weapons were carried and this is more realistic than beach fights in Brazil.

You seem to forget that martial art became martial sport not the other way around.

And I never said Bruce was some kind of fighting god he was a legit martial artist and pioneer who people have only recently started ragging into with the rise of MMA in the last few years as though that disqualifies him, actually it was what he wanted.

And I literally just posted a vid of WC working as a base combat art.
So no need for denial we have proven video evidence now which supports the logic and power of the style from practicing it.
No doubt there will be more in future.

And there have been well known WingChun grandmasters most famous was Bruce's main teacher Wong Shun Leung (Yip man was only technically his teacher).

Some grandmasters are not fighters (at least not in a sporting sense) but can train them.

You honestly think tkd is more practical than WC is delusional.

Never said tkd is more practical than WC, but I would agree to it. But I would like to emphasize that I feel TKD is only effective at a HIGH level. The guy that took a few soccer mom tkd classes as a kid is nothing. The man that dedicated his life to it and competed at a high level is a dangerous man.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Ok that's some good experience you have there.
So you're talking about starting with Ron Balicki with JkD?

Yes, WC methods are suited to knife fighting although I would agree that the whole idea of what works in knife fighting is dubious much of the time but the consensus experts in that area are the Filipino arts and they have field tested some of it. If you have as your base philosophy that what works empty hand should work with weapons you would be drawn more to the WC approach. Who's to say that wasn't even part of its origins or where it got it's 'reality' reputation?
I'm pretty sure the development of the style was from an era where weapons were carried and this is more realistic than beach fights in Brazil.

You seem to forget that martial art became martial sport not the other way around.

And I never said Bruce was some kind of fighting god he was a legit martial artist and pioneer who people have only recently started ragging into with the rise of MMA in the last few years as though that disqualifies him, actually it was what he wanted.

And I literally just posted a vid of WC working as a base combat art.
So no need for denial we have proven video evidence now which supports the logic and power of the style from practicing it.
No doubt there will be more in future.

And there have been well known WingChun grandmasters most famous was Bruce's main teacher Wong Shun Leung (Yip man was only technically his teacher).

Some grandmasters are not fighters (at least not in a sporting sense) but can train them.

You honestly think tkd is more practical than WC is delusional.

You posting a video of someone who looks shite, beating up someone who looks even shitter and claiming he is pure WC doesn't prove anything.

 

[TheMaster]

Never said tkd is more practical than WC, but I would agree to it. But I would like to emphasize that I feel TKD is only effective at a HIGH level. The guy that took a few soccer mom tkd classes as a kid is nothing. The man that dedicated his life to it and competed at a high level is a dangerous man.

If you agree to it that tells me all I need to know.
Now yes, TKD is an Olympic sport (by far the least respected and ignored Olympic level combat sport considering) so it has live sparring and training which is a plus.

I also think it can be dangerous at a high level on the feet.

But to say a style that focusss on highkicks is more practical as base art than a style that focusses on punches, elbows and some clinch work and low kicks is a foolish assessment guided by some emotional bias you have against WC from your JKD and Bruce Lee fanboy years is all.

 

[aerius]

But to say a style that focusss on highkicks is more practical as base art than a style that focusses on punches, elbows and some clinch work and low kicks is a foolish assessment guided by some emotional bias you have against WC from your JKD and Bruce Lee fanboy years is all.

So what you're saying is you don't know shit about TKD.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Anyone who has sparred with a high level TKD guy has had their eyes opened up to how effective it can be.

Its hard to spar with a high level WC guys, because there doest seem to be any. All the ones I've met are low level hobbiests, that are rubbish, but the all believed that the reason why they did terrible at sparring is because it works better on the streets.

The one thing they had in commen was they was all delusional.

I personally do like the concept of taking the telegraph out of techniques tho. I give credit to WC for that, even though its used in most martial arts, I feel WC make more of a point of it

 

[TheMaster]

Anyone who has sparred with a high level TKD guy has had their eyes opened up to how effective it can be.

Its hard to spar with a high level WC guys, because there doest seem to be any. All the ones I've met are low level hobbiests, that are rubbish, but the all believed that the reason why they did terrible at sparring is because it works better on the streets.

I don't disagree with any of this and at the same time it has nothing to do with the fact that people who train it live and spar beyond the hobbyist level have been able to make it work. So your point is what?
Most WC guys are out of shape hobbyists who don't spar.
The reality or streets excuse is generally foolish but is valid up to a point. How many people spar with elbow strikes? Even MT doesn't usually do that full on how can you.

So what you're saying is you don't know shit about TKD.

No ,I've seen Olympic TKD and I've seen them standing with their hands to their sides at range and throwing spinning kicks and high kicks.


And that is not more practical than the WC approach at all.
But it is fun to watch.

 

[shincheckin]

If you agree to it that tells me all I need to know.
Now yes, TKD is an Olympic sport (by far the least respected and ignored Olympic level combat sport considering) so it has live sparring and training which is a plus.

I also think it can be dangerous at a high level on the feet.

But to say a style that focusss on highkicks is more practical as base art than a style that focusses on punches, elbows and some clinch work and low kicks is a foolish assessment guided by some emotional bias you have against WC from your JKD and Bruce Lee fanboy years is all.

Not quite, you get defensive and resort to insults rather quickly and I'm probably the only other person on here to give WC any sort of credibility other than you. Given that bruce practiced WC and incorporated it into JKD, I don't see how being a Bruce fanboy would be "against " WC, hence why I'm able to advocate bits and pieces of it.

You also seemed to have missed my EMPHASIS on HIGH LEVEL TKD.

High level TKD fighters that have transitioned into full contact combat sports have proven its effectiveness...the same cannot be said for WC

High level TKD focuses on kicking people's heads off their shoulders....according to you high level WC doesn't exist, as there are only hobbyist level practitioners across the world for some strange reason, either way, both high and low level WC focus on unrealistic combinations with compliant opponents.

Kicking people in the head is much more effective than parrying a jab and doing some flashy 10 hit combo on a opponent that stopped moving after his jab was parryed. It just doesn't work. And anytime a WC tries he fails miserably.

Additionally the videos you posted fall under the WC "reaching" category

WC isn't total BS, just most of it is....take it for what its worth... it is what it is

 

[shincheckin]

Anyone who has sparred with a high level TKD guy has had their eyes opened up to how effective it can be.

Its hard to spar with a high level WC guys, because there doest seem to be any. All the ones I've met are low level hobbiests, that are rubbish, but the all believed that the reason why they did terrible at sparring is because it works better on the streets.

The one thing they had in commen was they was all delusional.

I personally do like the concept of taking the telegraph out of techniques tho. I give credit to WC for that, even though its used in most martial arts, I feel WC make more of a point of it

I'm friends with a TKD blackbelt from Scotland, hes a pro mma fighter and has fought on south Africa EFC. Sparring with him back in like 2011 is what opened my eyes to TKD. The kicks are not as powerful as muay thai, but they are still plenty strong, and they are much faster.

 

[aerius]

INo ,I've seen Olympic TKD and I've seen them standing with their hands to their sides at range and throwing spinning kicks and high kicks.


And that is not more practical than the WC approach at all.
But it is fun to watch.

As I said, you don't know shit about TKD if you're basing it on the Olympics.
I doubt you could even tell me which of the 2 main schools it is without looking it up in Google.

 

[shincheckin]

As I said, you don't know shit about TKD if you're basing it on the Olympics.
I doubt you could even tell me which of the 2 main schools it is without looking it up in Google.

True that, Olympic tkd is not the fighting tkd....dudes get ko in tkd all the time, all dudes in WC do is slap you 10 times

 

[aerius]

I'm friends with a TKD blackbelt from Scotland, hes a pro mma fighter and has fought on south Africa EFC. Sparring with him back in like 2011 is what opened my eyes to TKD. The kicks are not as powerful as muay thai, but they are still plenty strong, and they are much faster.

There's been 4 UFC champions I can think of off the top of my head with a black belt in TKD (Benson Henderson, Pettis, Namajunas, Shevchenko) and there's probably a dozen more who have a background in the sport. And they've all whipped out TKD kicks and landed them in their UFC fights which is a lot more than you can say about WC.

 

[shincheckin]

There's no emotional bias towards WC from anyone in here. I even stated I would be open to learning some of it if I knew someone that could teach me.

That being said, there's martial arts that have proven themselves effective and those that have proven themselves ineffective. WC has proven itself ineffective as a whole, with some effective bits and pieces to those with a open mind.

What's next? Wushu in the ring or streets? Hold on let me grab my bright yellow silk robe first.

 

[shincheckin]

There's been 4 UFC champions I can think of off the top of my head with a black belt in TKD (Benson Henderson, Pettis, Namajunas, Shevchenko) and there's probably a dozen more who have a background in the sport. And they've all whipped out TKD kicks and landed them in their UFC fights which is a lot more than you can say about WC.

But WC fucks shit up

Insert movie fight scene here or the WC "reaching out" videos.

 

[shincheckin]

Clearly, we should all train with Sensei Seagal, the one true master of WC.

There's the WC fights I was looking for lol

 

[aerius]

But WC fucks shit up

Insert movie fight scene here or the WC "reaching out" videos.

See the above video clip of Steven Seagal.
Bro, Sensei Seagal trained UFC champions!

 

[shincheckin]

When fighting is some sort of fantasy of yours WC is great. When fighting is a reality for you and it's your life on the line, fantasy martial arts won't cut it.

WC is a fantasy martial art.

Regarding WC and knife fighting, its probably a good time to post this

 

[shincheckin]

We also frequently hear the argument that WC is not for the ring or cage, it's for the streets, or even further, WC advocates state it's for armed combat, not unarmed combat.

Well all we need to do is take a look at the dog brothers, again, no WC there either.

 

[shincheckin]

How many people spar with elbow strikes? Even MT doesn't usually do that full on how can you

We wear elbow pads, but they are not thrown full force.

This brings up another flaw in your defense of WC due to them not sparring. They may not spare full contact 100%, but they do light sparring do they not?

MT is the same, we spar lightly, full on 100% sparring is not needed to fight.

Both spar lightly, 1 is effective 1 is not.