Basically Wing Chun seems to have become the current symbol of the common idea that "only sport martial arts are valid".
I am advocating a balanced view.
This goes back to Kano removing very dangerous techniques from Judo to allow them to go at it full on.
Then when his Judo guys fought the traditional ju jitsu guys they usually (not always) whooped them even with the 'dangerous moves' allowed since they were used to live training.
We get it. Not a revelation.
You seem to forget that I started with Judo. I know what live training is. Any of the real fights I've been in (not many but a few) usually I would use grappling.
Grappling has always been one of the bases and I have seen fighting from that.
One of the revelations to me was when I grabbed my old WC instructor in close and he was still able to hit me, hard with the same arm I was holding at the wrist.
Close range combat is their thing. I realized that the integration of the two systems enables one to seriously hurt a grappler from even close range. Likewise it enables one to hit and hurt, then throw a striker if one wishes.
You want WC to be this cliche of flurries like the movies. Probably beacause Bruce Lee was your idol and you were a martial nerd then you discovered MT and your intro to "real fighting" but you went too far the other way.
It's interesting you lump JKD in there as bs.
It was early MMA before MMA in the US. Bruce criticized point karate and "dry land swimming".
Obviously they still want to preserve the writings and connection to Bruce which is part of the issue.
But it naturally lends itself to cross training but more for a real life situation which is probably why u dislike it since we know for you "sport 100% = real life"
Some legit guys who come from JKD are Matt Thornton - he is great.
And another guy who came from a strong JKD background and still does it - with all the Inosanto stick work as well is none other than Erik Paulson.
I never liked it when guys look down on trailblazers and arts that came before just because what we do now has evolved in some ways and surpasses it.
Jkd was not mma. Bruce "concept" was mma. Back in the day people didn't really cross train, they were stuck in whatever they did out of some old school martial art tradition BS. Bruce was like hey screw that, I'll train a little this and a little that. His concept was to mix martial arts.....people have been doing that since then. It has evolved to what it is today, through trial and error and being tested and proven effective in the ring and cage. WC has not although its had just as much as a opportunity as any other art. Given bruce was a precursor to mma and an advocate of WC, you would think that advocacy would have influenced mma, it has not....bruce wasn't advocating MT, yet somehow MT has proven itself to be one of the most effective striking arts on the planet, which is why we see it so much in mma. So something the precursor to mma advocates is gone with the wind and something else dominates due to it being proven effective.
Now were again back to sport application vs real fight.....so your back to the elaborately rewording "too dangerous for the ring"
Your next null argument is sport vs real fight.....how is a boxing match not a real fight? It's not a fake fight. The goal is to KO your opponent. There's just certain rules. Only idiots like to think someone capable of fighting with rules can't fight without rules.
Effective infighting techniques fall under MT and dirty boxing. Like the videos you posted attempting to claim as WC.
WC hasn't proven itself and any attempt is usually reaching out very hard.
You like to make things up: such as the guy open to learning WC has an emotional bias towards it.....sure bud.
I'm expecting WC to be like flurries in the movies? No I'm expecting it to be like the previous video you posted. We just don't see it.
The only martial art nerd in lala land is you advocating WC. Which speaks volumes of yourself, and what you know about an actual "real fight"
What works in the ring works out of the ring.
What does not work outside of the ring, does not work in the ring.
There's things that work out of the ring that would work in the ring but aren't allowed for obvious reasons like eye pokes but shots hair pulling biting.....oh yeah and dim mak death touch lol.
So to summarize your arguments
1) too dangerous for ring
2) no grandmasters
To summarize mine
1) hasn't proven itself
2) your attempts at proving are "reaching"
I'm not going to change your mind. Which I wasn't aiming to do. I feel I have made my point. I'll use what works. You can use what works in theory against compliant opponents that stop fighting after a chop to the neck and a slap to the belly.
Chech out the hand traps to elbows regularly used in MT. Although I wouldn't be surprised if you fail to spot them. The only thing WC has going for it, is a very small percentage of it could carry over to MT. And a WC guy would probably have great sensitivity
