Law THE POLICE SHOOTING/USE OF FORCE MEGATHREAD: discussions to determine if justified or not

Are there plenty of other things that might have been tried according the the armchair squad. Of course they could have called animal control and used their tranquilizer guy and net.

Arm chair squad posted ECPD policy multiple times with font and color clues for the challenged.

300.3.6 ALTERNATIVE TACTICS - DE-ESCALATION As time and circumstances reasonably permit, and when community and officer safety would not be compromised, officers should consider actions that may increase officer safety and may decrease the need for using force:
(a) Summoning additional resources that are able to respond in a reasonably timelymanner.
(b) Formulating a plan with responding officers before entering an unstable situation thatdoes not reasonably appear to require immediate intervention.
(c) Employing other tactics that do not unreasonably increase officer jeopardy


Did pulling a felony stop at within brick range increase officer jeopardy? Of course it did. Did they know that Vargas was armed with a brick, and the situation was potentially unstable? Of course they did. Did they put themselves in jeopardy when there appeared to be plenty of time and space? Yes, it's obvious. Are they now using the danger they placed themselves in by disreguarding policy as justification for the shoot? YES.
 
I’m unhinged? Look at the crazy allegations you’re making with zero proof. You’re the one losing it and have become pretty much obsessed with me, getting in weakass and cheap comments. You went out of your way to run your mouth in the awards thread. Wow, it’s amusing how much of an effect I am having on you.

And once again, despite you denying what you said and changing it to “probably” back to definitely claiming I violated rights, beat people; planted evidence, and the really laughable one is that I murdered people. You’re absolutely insane and it’s even sadder that you’re not even trolling.

And forced retirement? Actually, yes. I have said it many times and even made a thread on here announcing that I had to retire because I had 3 surgeries from work injuries-left shoulder twice and tthe last one was spinal surgery and the state codes actually state that you can’t be a police officer or a firefighter with a fused spine. I put off the surgery for many years until the spinal damage was making my legs give out. The worst was when I was walking down some steps and my leg went weak and I fell down 12 steps. Taken to emergency room and they did a cat scan. The surgeon that told me weeks before that they could do a minimally invasive surgery, after seeing the updated cat scan, told me that “we have to go in there asap, or you could lose the use of your legs.” I knew that a fused spine meant retirement so I had refused to get the surgery until they told me that.

But no, you are stating that you would bet money that my retirement was forced because of some misconduct. So, now the tally is that I was forced to retire because of violating rights, I have beaten people, I planted evidence, and I have murdered people. Do you realize how pathetic and insane you are? I mean, in my nearly 20 years spent mostly in the war room, I have ruffled so many feathers, but you might actually be the most affected and gotten to person I have ever dealt with on here. Like kong, braklis, and probxinginsdr have nothing on you:
i am unhinged? i write a couple of sentences. you write responses that are the length of a novel desperately trying to convince people you are not a bad cop. As for the retirement, it was nice of your department to allow you to retire that way instead of losing it like you, i, and everyone else knows you should have.

on the awards thread, i simply nominated you and made one sentence. get over it Barney

as for cleveland, now you are back to shitting on the entire city again. make up your mind. i don't care if you shit on it. hell, it IS a shithole. difference is, i am not a cop. i don't have the life of people in my hands. Imagine being some mom innocently passing through your city and getting pulled over by you for going 3 mph over. you look at the license, see she is from cleveland and proceed to plant stuff on her since you assume they are all dirtbags anyway.

point is the world is a better place now that you are not terrorizing innocent people Lt. Pickles
 
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He had a deadly weapon in his hand and had already threatened someone with it. He was a danger to the public. He was justified in having the firearm ready the position. Until the guy was in position to throw it low ready would have been better, but that's just me. From the moment the guy went to the position to throw the brick shooting was justified.

Are there plenty of other things that might have been tried according the the armchair squad. Of course they could have called animal control and used their tranquilizer guy and net.

Well, I actually agree that there were many other options, but that’s the thing with law enforcement is that there are many right answers as well as many wrong answers or solutions to each scenario. For example, I think those officers should have cut him off using their vehicles. Box him in but goodness sake, keep the cruiser between you and this guy.

I would have chosen different tactics for sure, but that doesn’t make the decision to use deadly force to confront a person armed with a deadly weapon that has already committed felonious assault.

What’s funny is watching @Joshuaace @Via Heeto make complete asses of themselves and watching heeto come unraveled is like watching a train wreck. You feel awful for continuing to gawk at the carnage, but you can’t look away.

Josh has contradicted himself several times and stupidly bolstered my argument thinking he was refuting me. He claims the officers purposely baited Vargas into throwing the brick or attacking with the brick just so they could shoot him because that’s what they wanted to do.

He also claimed that Vargas threw the brick in self defense because the officers illegally and against policy had guns drawn and he must have feared for his own life, which is why he threw the brick. I guess that female caller must have caused him to fear for his own life as well since he threatened her with the brick.

He also claimed the officers violated department and state policies by not de-escalating the situation, but when I proved him wrong, he fell back on “well, he probably doesn’t speak or understand English.” So I guess a guy living in this country where the majority of people speak English even though we have no official language, had never heard the word “stop” and didn’t comprender(Spanish for comprehend) or entiendo (Spanish for understand). And he definitely, because not knowing English, didn’t comprehend the drawn guns pointed at him in a universal language of “don’t fucking attack us or we will shoot you.”

Josh also claims that the officers were required to use less lethal options before drawing guns. That’s assuming they had those options on them, but even if they did, in no way does an officer have to first try less lethal when dealing with a violent person armed with a deadly weapon.

Then he also claimed that a brick was not a deadly weapon. When I posted three brick fatality cases, he claimed I had to search long and hard to find those. Nope, wrong. It took me about two mins to search and pick the first three I came across. It took me longer to post the links than it did to find them. He also claimed that I could only find three and I had to use other parts of the world. Wrong again. I had to rule some out because they were thrown bricks at moving vehicles. I know of one I didn’t even use where the brick went through the windshield and killed the person but there are also incidents of the brick through the window caused people to crash and die. And the best part is I don’t even have to search for murders caused by bricks. All I had to do to justify the use of firearms is to point out that getting hit with a brick can cause serious injury, which is part of the definition of deadly force, which is any force that can cause serious injury or death. How do police officers respond to someone with a weapon that can cause serious injury or death? By using their own deadly force options. I cited Supreme Court cases but he continues to say that I am wrong and department policy supersedes Supreme Court case law:

Then there’s heeto. He is losing so badly that he has accused me of planting evidence, putting people in jail to rot, violating rights, was forced to retire because of misconduct, terrorized my community, claims I hated my community, and the kicker is that he believes that I have murdered people in the past.
 
I found @nhbbear guys! This was apparently filmed on his last day of work



Wow. It’s amazing you think that’s funny or that anyone else would think that was funny. Jesus, you’re actually calling attention to yourself saying “hey hey hey, look at me guys-see how funny and witty I am-you’ll be my friend, won’t you?”

You are making a total fool of yourself. Not that you had any kind of reputation that anyone would know who you are, or which banned poster you are that has had a beef with me for who knows how many years-I have pissed so many twats off over my nearly two decades on here.
 
@nhbbear

Save the story. But please take the time to answer a couple questions using your expertise and experience.

Whether it be in the criminal investigation, internal investigation, or under examination in Court. How do the Officers (especially those that discharged weapons) answer theses questions?

Were your actions based on your training?
Did that training and PD policy guide your actions? If they did, explain how.
If you deviated from training and policy, explain why?
Did you use any de-escalation tactics? Describe them in detail?
When Vargas was walking away with a brick, and you were in your squad car, Why did you conclude he had the ability, and INTENT to cause immediate harm to anyone?
Did you employ any non-lethal? Why not?
What non-lethals are you trained in?
What non-lethals were on site?

I don't want a story. I want answers to direct questions.

I plead the 5th is gonna be a popular answer. I envision Reps and Defense Attorneys whispering {don't answer that}
 
He’s definitely a retired cop.

No, clearly it is a grift/schtick that I have been using for almost 20 years. Because let’s face it, it is so difficult to become a cop and I just couldn’t do it so I have pretended. I learned all about cop stuff and studied Supreme Court case law and use of force so I could keep up the charade. The thread that I made many years ago with well over 50,000 views about my experiences as a cop-all made up. As he has been calling me out saying “fiction” when I discussed incidents I was involved in. I admit it now, he got me, I was never a cop and it’s a fantasy of mine.

Meanwhile, @Joshuaace actually wouldn’t have been able to be a cop ever because he was a “troubled teen” and ended up in the courts, which explains why he hates cops and even pretend cops on sherdog. Well, it was a fun two decades of pretending, but I am going to come clean. I work in fast food and have since I was 18. I almost made team leader once, but I got caught snacking on people’s French fries. I couldn’t help it, I was hungry and they never gave me a break because we were so busy. But I have good skills. I take out the trash faster than everyone else because I don’t smoke and I take the trash out to the dumpster and come straight back because I am a hard worker. Everyone else smokes a cigarette when they take out the trash. In fact, that was how I got to where I am as the guy that makes the French fries, which is probably the most important job because everyone really likes French fries.
 
No, clearly it is a grift/schtick that I have been using for almost 20 years. Because let’s face it, it is so difficult to become a cop and I just couldn’t do it so I have pretended. I learned all about cop stuff and studied Supreme Court case law and use of force so I could keep up the charade. The thread that I made many years ago with well over 50,000 views about my experiences as a cop-all made up. As he has been calling me out saying “fiction” when I discussed incidents I was involved in. I admit it now, he got me, I was never a cop and it’s a fantasy of mine.

Meanwhile, @Joshuaace actually wouldn’t have been able to be a cop ever because he was a “troubled teen” and ended up in the courts, which explains why he hates cops and even pretend cops on sherdog. Well, it was a fun two decades of pretending, but I am going to come clean. I work in fast food and have since I was 18. I almost made team leader once, but I got caught snacking on people’s French fries. I couldn’t help it, I was hungry and they never gave me a break because we were so busy. But I have good skills. I take out the trash faster than everyone else because I don’t smoke and I take the trash out to the dumpster and come straight back because I am a hard worker. Everyone else smokes a cigarette when they take out the trash. In fact, that was how I got to where I am as the guy that makes the French fries, which is probably the most important job because everyone really likes French fries.

Admit to the rest of Sherdog that you hurt your back while shooting a gay porno for Onlyfans
 
No, clearly it is a grift/schtick that I have been using for almost 20 years. Because let’s face it, it is so difficult to become a cop and I just couldn’t do it so I have pretended. I learned all about cop stuff and studied Supreme Court case law and use of force so I could keep up the charade. The thread that I made many years ago with well over 50,000 views about my experiences as a cop-all made up. As he has been calling me out saying “fiction” when I discussed incidents I was involved in. I admit it now, he got me, I was never a cop and it’s a fantasy of mine.

The commitment to the story over time is what makes it a disorder.
 
@nhbbear

Save the story. But please take the time to answer a couple questions using your expertise and experience.

Whether it be in the criminal investigation, internal investigation, or under examination in Court. How do the Officers (especially those that discharged weapons) answer theses questions?

Were your actions based on your training?
Did that training and PD policy guide your actions? If they did, explain how.
If you deviated from training and policy, explain why?
Did you use any de-escalation tactics? Describe them in detail?
When Vargas was walking away with a brick, and you were in your squad car, Why did you conclude he had the ability, and INTENT to cause immediate harm to anyone?
Did you employ any non-lethal? Why not?
What non-lethals are you trained in?
What non-lethals were on site?

I don't want a story. I want answers to direct questions.

I plead the 5th is gonna be a popular answer. I envision Reps and Defense Attorneys whispering {don't answer that}

And I have answered or addressed every single one of those questions at some point in this discussion. Some of those “direct questions” can’t be answered by any of us because we don’t know the answers. For example, neither of us know what training these officers have had, whether they had less lethal options, what less lethal training they have had.


The only ones we can answer come from the video-yes, for the tenth time, they tried to deescalate by telling him that stealing a beer is no big deal and don’t make it worse. And we can answer the one about why on earth would we ever think the man that threatened to smash a woman with a brick would have the ability and/or desire to anyone harm.

Oh, and actually, I can answer a few more if those questions. They violated policy by not using the plethora of less lethal tools they had and violated training because they wanted to “bait” him into throwing the brick so they could shoot him. Also, they knew that by pointing a firearm at Vargas that he would be in fear for his life and had no choice but to throw the brick and would be justified in doing so because the officers had absolutely no reason to stop him because he was walking away to go home and “sleep off the alcohol” and Vargas didn’t actually have to stop because it was not a consensual encounter and if he doesn’t want to talk to the police, he doesn’t have to. Also, clearly, Vargas didn’t understand English, which is obvious because he clearly Hispanic, and the officers knew he would misunderstand what they were saying when they said “drop the brick” and he thought they were ordering him to throw the brick at the officers. He thought he was doing what they ordered him to do and that shithead shit him for it!
 
Admit to the rest of Sherdog that you hurt your back while shooting a gay porno for Onlyfans

Oh my gosh, you saw that? I am so embarrassed. I feel like such a clumsy dunce. See, I have this one subscriber that has been with me since the beginning and he asked me specifically to do something special for him. He pays a little extra each month, but it is worth it to him because I do what he wants and that helps him get off, but he requested that I use my giant black dildo that sticks to the wall. He asked me to pretend it was a glory hole and really slam my ass back like the power bottom I am, and with that particular dildo, I have to use a lot of lube because of how big it is. I don’t realize that the astroglide had spilled on the floor and when I went to ram my ass on the dildo, I slipped in the astroglide and fell. I just lay there screaming about my back and thankfully, he called 911 to come and help.
 
The commitment to the story over time is what makes it a disorder.

Alright, I came clean, ok? I answered your direct questions in the other post. What more do you want from me? I apologized. Should I make an apology thread for deceiving people for almost 20 years? If it makes any difference, I wanted to be a cop-I really did and I think I could have been good at it, but I never got my ged and I couldn’t pass the psych test anyway because I was a troubled teen.

Might as well come all the way clean. I don’t have a masters either. I live alone in my Mom’s basement. I made up the stories about my wife and kids. I just have a lot of cats, and they ignore me most of the time. I think I am going to get a dog because their love is unconditional and when I beg a dog to come over and sit with me, as long as I have treats, they will listen whereas my cats give me a “fuck off” look.

And I know it’s asking a lot of you, but do you plan to respond to my other reaponses to your posts?
 
Lt. Pickles (aka @nhbbear ) types more than any poster ever in an attempt to show he isn't unhinged. The unabomber is jealous of how long his posts are
 
And I know it’s asking a lot of you, but do you plan to respond to my other reaponses to your posts?

Put the questions you want me to answer in 1 post without the story, I will answer them, without a story.
 
Put the questions you want me to answer in 1 post without the story, I will answer them, without a story.

Well, I didn’t ask questions, I responded to your posts and you didn’t respond to my arguments
 
Arm chair squad posted ECPD policy multiple times with font and color clues for the challenged.

300.3.6 ALTERNATIVE TACTICS - DE-ESCALATION As time and circumstances reasonably permit, and when community and officer safety would not be compromised, officers should consider actions that may increase officer safety and may decrease the need for using force:
(a) Summoning additional resources that are able to respond in a reasonably timelymanner.
(b) Formulating a plan with responding officers before entering an unstable situation thatdoes not reasonably appear to require immediate intervention.
(c) Employing other tactics that do not unreasonably increase officer jeopardy


Did pulling a felony stop at within brick range increase officer jeopardy? Of course it did. Did they know that Vargas was armed with a brick, and the situation was potentially unstable? Of course they did. Did they put themselves in jeopardy when there appeared to be plenty of time and space? Yes, it's obvious. Are they now using the danger they placed themselves in by disreguarding policy as justification for the shoot? YES.

He was a danger to the public . They were required to protect the public and contain him and protect the public.

If they had at hand to deploy right then say a bean bag gun then they might have tried that. A tazer maybe but I have little confidence in it. Plus you you would be in rand of the brick.

The shooting was justified and their first priority addressed that is protecting others from him.
 
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