"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[Gamer007]

someone like harden overall ability to score is probably the best ever

 

[Crash Lance]

getting married/divorced, getting into bar fights, not having proper training camps, no team behind you is far from “peak”....

Also al Iaquinta fought for interim, was riding a 5 fight win streak and was 8-1 in his last 9 fights in ufc.

On the other hand, hardy was on a 4 fight win streak in ufc and got an actual title shot in supposedly one of the deepest weight classes.

And yes sport is more overall popular, more ppl around the world do it, there are more mma organizations around which increases the talent pool.

Overall skill sets also increases.

Again someone like mike perry would be one if the most complete fighters in 2010.

his striking would be above average

his grappling would be above average

his conditioning would be above average

today hes just an average fighter.

Khabib Nurmagomedov vs. Al Iaquinta was for the UFC Lightweight World Championship. It wasn't for any INTERIM title.

Before UFC 223 began, Nurmagomedov had an MMA record of 25-0.

Nurmagomedov is the UFC Lightweight World Champion (with 2 title defences).

If anything, Nurmagomedov should've received a title shot many years before UFC 223.

 

[pankrat]

GSP and Fitch are from 2 different generations. GSP was from 1 or 2 generations before Fitch. He came from the same generation as Jay Hieron and Karo Parisyan. He was just that dominant..

GSP and Fitch debut back in 2002. They both actually got in the UFC with just few months of difference. They are from the same generation.

 

[grimballer]

Khabib Nurmagomedov vs. Al Iaquinta was for the UFC Lightweight World Championship. It wasn't for any INTERIM title.

Before UFC 223 began, Nurmagomedov had an MMA record of 25-0.

Nurmagomedov is the UFC Lightweight World Champion (with 2 title defences).

If anything, Nurmagomedov should've received a title shot many years before UFC 223.

sure on paper it was for the title, but the reality is the real champ never got beat.

also al Iaquinta was like a 3rd replacement for that bout after tony got injured. Pettis couldn’t make weight and Ac didn’t approve Felder.

The other moron is trying to compare that to hardy getting a title shot after beating swick...

 

[pankrat]

sure on paper it was for the title, but the reality is the real champ never got beat.

also al Iaquinta was like a 3rd replacement for that bout after tony got injured. Pettis couldn’t make weight and Ac didn’t approve Felder.

The other moron is trying to compare that to hardy getting a title shot after beating swick...

Swick was 9-1 in UFC at the time only loss to Okami at 185 (who would have absolutely destroyed Perry) and was coming as a favourite.

Still nobody though Hardy was worthy of a tittle shot but he was in the right time at the right place...just like Iaquinta.

Now you are saying that Perry would be the most complete fighter by 2010 standards. Perry, who got armabarred in the first round by Cerrone, who is around since before 2010, you monumental moron.

And yeah. Hardy and Swick could very well give Cerrone a tougher fight than Perry and even Iaquinta did

 

[grimballer]

You are just projecting, prick. And as a matter of fact, you are getting roasted by several people in this same thread LOL loser

Besides, I dont have nothing to argue about MMA with a shertard who delivers this opinion

"Mike Perry would be the most complete fighter in 2010"
- @grimballer

Keep begggin for my attention, you won't get it besides embarrassing you for being so illiterate with 20,000 posts in a mma forum

Is that why you coming back desperate for attention?

Again you’re repeating same thing over and over.

the reality is

i know you’re a moron and have no idea what you’re taking about

You know you’re a moron and have no idea what you’re talking about

that’s why you’re all upset and keep coming back for more

you’re like a sexual assault victim trying to deal with her ordeal by creating a bond with her attacker.

There’s levels to this kid..

You’re a bottom floor

 

[pankrat]

I disagree. Many of these facts and knowledge have been lost throughout the past 80,000 years.

For the past 200 years, nuclear bombs (and everything weaker than nuclear bombs) and Boxing techniques were considered to be the "only ways to go to war."

Thankfully, MMA techniques are being created and re-created, discovered and RE-DISCOVERED.

During the Summer Olympics in Ancient Greece, there were tournaments for Pankration.

The sport of MMA is brand-new. However, the discipline that is now called MMA always existed (but was forgotten) and it was called Pankration.

Anything is possible. I can only imagine what the next 10-30 years of evolution in MMA fights will bring.

I think you have a very American centric approach to the matter, no disrespect. I mean this sentence:

"For the past 200 years, nuclear bombs and Boxing techniques were considered to be the "only ways to go to war."

Apart from the fact that there was Thai boxing and kickboxing since long time ago worldwide...

Russians were already competing in Sambo, Japanese in shoot-wrestling and Kudo, and of course Brazilians in the Vale Tudo scene since before the 90s....which are all pretty realistic forms of full-contact fighting.

Said that, the sport of MMA evolved leaps and bound in the '90s as a consequence of establishing a professional circuit and consequent proffesionalized MMA gyms.

Indeed, MMA tecniques and its effectiveness are constantly re-discovered but I would say that, at this point, it's more of a tactical edge than technical, apart from the improved levels of athleticism.

The sport evolves but not at the pace many people in these boards assume. I mean we have a genius in this same thread saying that Mike Perry would be the most complete fighter by 2010 standards

There is only few people in each generation who really takes the sport to the next level, according to one of the most respected MMA coaches in America in Matt Hume, who also agrees with Jon Fitch in that the overall grappling ability in MMA in recent years has dropped:

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

I said this in a thread I made a few months ago about how the evolution of mma is a myth.

It's stagnant.

I totally disagree, look at alk the techniques that went from being barely ever utilized to super popular in the last few years. Calf kicks, oblique kicks, spinning back kicks, wheel kicks etc.. Not so sure about the grappling but the striking level on average has improved significantly imo. There used to be way more Demian Maia tyoe fighters with trash standup and good ground games in the past. Now you have to be solid everywhere (unless you're a heavyweight).

 

[pankrat]

I totally disagree, look at alk the techniques that went from being barely ever utilized to super popular in the last few years. Calf kicks, oblique kicks, spinning back kicks, wheel kicks etc.. Not so sure about the grappling but the striking level on average has improved significantly imo. There used to be way more Demian Maia tyoe fighters with trash standup and good ground games in the past. Now you have to be solid everywhere (unless you're a heavyweight).

No doubt the standup (footwork, technique and estrategy) has improved in MMA.
That's actually Fitch's point, that promoters have incentivated standup fighting which has lead to fighters focusing his training on improving the standup - as it will give you better professional opportunities - while dedicating less time to grappling/ground training

 

[grimballer]

I hope you feel better now but the fact rermains the same: you are the offficial clown of this thread of mine that you love so much, and you're getting roasted as an illiterate fool by different people in this same thread.

Also:

Yes it’s your thread, congrats! Is that your biggest accomplishment in life?

I didn’t start talking to you though, you started chasing me around desperate for attention.

And it’s funny you talk about me “getting roasted by different ppl”, when you’re the one being basically called a moron by another poster in this thread.

Now like you said it is your thread, but if I knew it was a thread made by a low iq ass clown moron I would’ve definitely avoided it.

so next time give ppl heads up and put a notification that it’s a: low iq ass clown thread so ppl with an iq over 50 and with an actual mma knowledge can avoid it.

 

[pankrat]

Yes it’s your thread, congrats! Is that your biggest accomplishment in life?

I didn’t start talking to you though, you started chasing me around desperate for attention.

And it’s funny you talk about me “getting roasted by different ppl”, when you’re the one being basically called a moron by another poster in this thread.

Now like you said it is your thread, but if I knew it was a thread made by a low iq ass clown moron I would’ve definitely avoided it.

so next time give ppl heads up and put a notification that it’s a: low iq ass clown thread so ppl with an iq over 50 and with an actual mma knowledge can avoid it.

Cool story bozo but the facts remain that:
- You are the offficial clown of this thread
- You're getting roasted by different people in this same thread for being such a moron
- You delivered this irrefutable prove of illiteracy (despite 20,000 posts in an mma forum ):

mike perry would be one of the most complete fighters in 2010.

<{Red Card}>

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

No doubt the standup (footwork, technique and estrategy) has improved in MMA.
That's actually Fitch's point, that promoters have incentivated standup fighting which has lead to fighters focusing his training on improving the standup - as it will give you better professional opportunities - while dedicating less time to grappling/ground training

What is an estrategy? Is that like a computer generated gameplan? Sounds pretty cool.

 

[pankrat]

What is an estrategy? Is that like a computer generated gameplan? Sounds pretty cool.

English is not my first language.
I mean strategy. Or tactic if you prefer.
You really didn't get it or it's just a weak troll attempt?

 

[FlyingDeathKick]

English is not my first language.
I mean strategy. Or tactic if you prefer.
You really didn't get it or it's just a weak troll attempt?

I was just attempting to make a joke, sorry lol. It does sound like an interesting idea though.

 

[pankrat]

I was just attempting to make a joke, sorry lol. It does sound like an interesting idea though.

lol
Actually it's not so unrealistic. Would not be surprised if with all the info we have today about fighters and their habits you could get a computed generated gameplan based on all that info.

I mean, there are people investing huge money on technology to prevent aging and ultimately attain immortality - by natural causes - so everything is possible at this point :S

 

[Crash Lance]

English is not my first language.

The vast majority of folks in United States of America can barely speak English.

I think you have a very American centric approach to the matter, no disrespect.

I've never been outside of United States of America.

If you ever visit this nation, you might notice that 99% or 100% of United States of America folks insist that United States of America is the only place in the entire universe, United States of America is the only nation in the entire galaxy, and United States of America is the only nation on Planet Earth.

The fact is, the organization that's called the UFC started in United States of America. UFC 1 was in 1993.

However, the discipline that's called Pankration started THOUSANDS of years ago in the Summer Olympics in Ancient Greece.

Thankfully, the UFC, Bellator MMA, Professional Fighters League, and other organizations are now on TV networks that are in United States of America. All of these MMA techniques will continue to be invented and reinvented, discovered and REDISCOVERED. That's wonderful (obviously).

Apart from the fact that there was Thai boxing and kickboxing since long time ago worldwide...

Russians were already competing in Sambo, Japanese in shoot-wrestling and Kudo, and of course Brazilians in the Vale Tudo scene since before the 90s....which are all pretty realistic forms of full-contact fighting.

Yep, I'm well-aware that Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fights exist. I've watched a few over the years. In a way, Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fights have many different disciplines inside of them. Obviously, MMA fights have more disciplines inside of them than Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fights do.

I've even written messages on Sherdog about the entire UFC Middleweight Division. I keep thinking that every MMA fighter in the Middleweight Division keeps giving easy MMA fights to Adesanya.

I insist that every MMA fighter in the Middleweight Division is doing exactly what Adesanya wants them to do.

Adesanya is the UFC Middleweight World Champion (with 2 title defences).

Why is it that every MMA fighter in the Middleweight Division keeps making Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fights inside of the UFC? What do they think the result will be if they make a Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fight against Adesanya?

What did Whittaker think would happen if he made a Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fight against Adesanya?

What did Romero think would happen if he made a Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fight against Adesanya?

What did Costa think would happen if he made a Kickboxing/Glory/K-1/Muay Thai fight against Adesanya?

We'll see what happens when the UFC gives a title shot to someone else that's in the Middleweight Division.

 

[kiwiburger]

I agree somewhat but all these guys have more access to elite level grapplers to train w/ compared to fitch's time, they should be training with if they're in the ufc.

Just because there not doing it in the cage, doesn't mean they're not drilling it a thousand times in the gym. idk fitch is a legend in this area, and I respect his opinion

 

[pankrat]

I agree somewhat but all these guys have more access to elite level grapplers to train w/ compared to fitch's time, they should be training with if they're in the ufc.

Just because there not doing it in the cage, doesn't mean they're not drilling it a thousand times in the gym. idk fitch is a legend in this area, and I respect his opinion

Fair points.
They definitely drill it, not sure how much in the offensive end when your style is to stand.
Fitch asked about how is it possible that MVP's opponents who are geting outclassed standing - as expected - dont exploit such a glaring weakness in Page. Do we assume he can deal with elite grapplers? Paul Daley almost succeed

Even Adesanya in UFC has not faced an opponent who wants the fight in the ground - or actually wins fights that way - in 4 championship fights being himself a pure kickboxer. I reckon he looks better in every fight but Im not quite sure the sloppy technique Vettori exposed is totally fixed. Meanwhile the best wrestlers at 205lbs are all out of UFC.

 

[IIIIIIII]

i was never a huge fan of fitch. i've always respected his approach to mma, and he is tough as well. but his take on this is just awful. he thinks that mma moving more to stand-up, means less skill? no, it just means you are a ground fighter, and would prefer mma being more ground-based. well, it's mma. it's mixed. you never learned enough skill on the feet, and now you complain because of that?

you have to be well-rounded to become a champ. fitch never put enough effort into standing.

 

[cmw43]

Fitch never really adapted, blame yourself not mma...

He took the Champ to a draw last year on a five fight win streak, what did he need to change?