"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[tru3f4n]

I said this in a thread I made a few months ago about how the evolution of mma is a myth.

It's stagnant.

maybe from three to five years ago to now but not from when Fitch was fighting.

 

[Joker Jiujitsu]

There are multiple factors playing into the level of MMA and quality of UFC fighters. The techniques and skills and training styles at the very peak have definitely evolved. May not be a whole lot, but it's like any sport; you're standing on the shoulders of giants. Each generation is going to improve upon past techniques. However, with the proliferation of MMA and the oversaturation of training facilities, the quality in some cases has decreased, with more black belts, more instructors, etc. Naturally, if you only had 100 black belts before and now have thousands, it isn't likely each of those thousands will be as skilled. But I think at the peak, there are better skilled fighters mostly. That said, GSP, Fedor, Anderson, etc. could still be champions today if they were in their primes.

 

[grimballer]

Swick was 9-1 in UFC at the time only loss to Okami at 185 (who would have absolutely destroyed Perry) and was coming as a favourite.

Still nobody though Hardy was worthy of a tittle shot but he was in the right time at the right place...just like Iaquinta.

Now you are saying that Perry would be the most complete fighter by 2010 standards. Perry, who got armabarred in the first round by Cerrone, who is around since before 2010, you monumental moron.

And yeah. Hardy and Swick could very well give Cerrone a tougher fight than Perry and even Iaquinta did

and yet hardy got a title shot after going 4-0 in ufc and beating swick who was 4-0 as a ww.

only a low iq moron would compare that to al Iaquinta getting a title shot for a vacant title after one of the top contenders got injured, and 1st and 2nd replacements didn’t get approved by ac. He was literally last minute sub in.

And gotta love how you’re stuck on perry getting armbared by a bjj black with 17 sub wins in his career is some sort of proof he sucks...

i guess benson Henderson also sucks cause he was the only armbar win in Pettis career and gsp was Hughes last armbar win so that probably means he sucks as well...

incredible logic there!

Keep up the good work

 

[VaselineSweep]

i was never a huge fan of fitch. i've always respected his approach to mma, and he is tough as well. but his take on this is just awful. he thinks that mma moving more to stand-up, means less skill? no, it just means you are a ground fighter, and would prefer mma being more ground-based. well, it's mma. it's mixed. you never learned enough skill on the feet, and now you complain because of that?

you have to be well-rounded to become a champ. fitch never put enough effort into standing.

This right here. And that's exactly what happened when he fought GSP for the title... he got demolished standing, had GSP on his back for like 2 seconds before GSP escaped and reversed him lol

 

[pankrat]

and yet hardy got a title shot after going 4-0 in ufc and beating swick who was 4-0 as a ww.

only a low iq moron would compare that to al Iaquinta getting a title shot for a vacant title after one of the top contenders got injured, and 1st and 2nd replacements didn’t get approved by ac. He was literally last minute sub in.

And gotta love how you’re stuck on perry getting armbared by a bjj black with 17 sub wins in his career is some sort of proof he sucks...

i guess benson Henderson also sucks cause he was the only armbar win in Pettis career and gsp was Hughes last armbar win so that probably means he sucks as well...

incredible logic there!

Keep up the good work

I see you keep obsessesed with the thread.
I'd respect if apart from perform as the official clown you ellaborated in your arguments. But you don't.

Regarding the issue that Fitch points out, that undoubtedly has gone over your <50iq bald head but its why I made this thread that you love so much:

Who is the best grappler that Mike Perry, a consummate striker, has faced in 13 fights in UFC?
If your answer is "old generation" Cerrone, there you have the result,
Let's see the 2nd best then. Who is he? Don't tell me is Mickey :S

Step up the meh work, alleged high iq mongoloid

 

[grimballer]

I see you keep obsessesed with the thread.
I'd respect if apart from perform as the official clown you ellaborated in your arguments. But you don't.

Regarding the issue that Fitch points out, that undoubtedly has gone over your <50iq bald head but its why I made this thread that you love so much:

Who is the best grappler that Mike Perry, a consummate striker, has faced in 13 fights in UFC?
If your answer is "old generation" Cerrone, there you have the result,
Let's see the 2nd best then. Who is he? Don't tell me is Mickey :S

Step up the meh work, alleged high iq mongoloid

well you made an idiotic claim that getting armbared by a bjj black belt with 17 sub wins in his career means that fighter sucks...

To put it in context Your top contender hardy was getting subd in Bush leagues by midgets.

Perry also has a win over Alex Oliveira. The guy who choked out Carlos Condit (top contender from 2010).

 

[RockyLockridge]

I hope you’re not insinuating that a prime Fitch could be champion. Usman may be not as good on the ground, but overall he is a much more complete MMA fighter. He’d hurt Fitch worse than Colby.

I think Usman is a more winnable match up for fitch actually.

 

[Givvee]

He's not wrong, there are a lot of guys who are in the UFC now that would have never ben able to make it 10 years ago. At the highest level, the fighters are as good as they have ever been, but as in any sport there are cycles.

At LHW for example, The Jon Jones that we saw in 2011, was he much better than the current versions of Reyes and Blachovic who fought for his vacated title? YES, he would mop the floor with them.

If you look at the current top HW fighters, are they the best HW fighters the sport has ever seen? No, not even close.

 

[pankrat]

well you made an idiotic claim that getting armbared by a bjj black belt with 17 sub wins in his career means that fighter sucks...

To put it in context Your top contender hardy was getting subd in Bush leagues by midgets.

Perry also has a win over Alex Oliveira. The guy who choked out Carlos Condit (top contender from 2010).

Not only mma math, but with a guy in his 16th year of a career, plenty of wars and in a losing skid
You can't get cheaper, I asked you to step up clown

How is that you can barely name a fighter who has actually tried to take down a pure striker in Perry and when he does is Mikey Gall have you ever though about it?

Mike Perry could very well beat prime Dan Hardy, who is also a favourable match up for him. He could of courso lose too, far from a lock.
Only a moron would present Hardy getting a tittle shot as the standards of MMA in 2010 though. A low iq moron who doesnt understand politics, which is again the point of this thread even if it is miles above your head.

Hardy was barely regarded top10 WW in UFC, let alone worlwide, as he squeezed close decs with Swick and Gono.

Mike Perry would get smoked by the elite in 2010...not just by Cerrone, who was at LW by then, but of course Fitch would grapplefuck him all day long.

mike perry would be one of the most complete fighters in 2010.

 

[pankrat]

I think Usman is a more winnable match up for fitch actually.

I think Usman can force Fitch to stand and beat him there. Dont remember anyone having any succes clinching wth Usman or shooting as Maia, would really surprise me if Fitch could get anything going there, as crafty MMA grappler as he is.

To be fair, Fitch wasnt capable of beating the best man of his generation neither, not even close. He was ranked #2 quite some time and I think he was a legit top5 but there were some WWs I'd have favoured over Fitch apart from GSP.
I think Fitch was certainly capable of outgrappling ranked WWs today imo.

 

[grimballer]

Not only mma math, but with a guy in his 16th year of a career, plenty of wars and in a losing skid
You can't get cheaper, I asked you to step up clown

How many top WWs has submitted Cerrone? Where is Oliveira ranked at WW, 10 years into his career, top30? How is that you can barely name a fighter who has actually tried to take down a pure striker in Perry and when he does is fucking Mikey Gall have you ever though about it you monumental mongoloid because tha'ts what the thread is about and you are official clown on it feel proud

By the way, Mike Perry could very well beat prime Dan Hardy, who is also a favourable match up for him. He could of courso lose too, far from a lock.
Only a moron would present Hardy getting a tittle shot as the standards of MMA in 2010 though. Only a low iq moron who doesnt understand politics, which is again the point of this thread even if it is miles above your peanut head.

Hardy was barely regarded top10 WW in UFC, let alone worlwide, and he squeezed a close dec with another fringe top10 in Swick where he came as the underdog. Swick who again could win or lose to Perry but if handled Riggs, Burkman or Loiseau definitely can give Perry - and Cerrone - a competitive fight; he was dangerous and experienced standing, had a good chin, better sub game than Perry, and wrestled with the best in AKA in a daily basis. You don't have idea though, to you is just a not big name,

Mike Perry would get smoked by the elite in 2010...not just by Cerrone, who was at LW by then, but of course Fitch would grapplefuck him all day long.

So now you basically agree that a guy who’s not even top 15 in 2020 could beat a guy who fought for a title and was ranked as low as 5 at some point?

Smh

do you even know what you’re arguing anymore?

Hardy being as low as 5 means he was “elite” at that time.

keep in mind a relic Matt Hughes was still top fighter back then

who else was top fighter back then?

Fitch with no striking
Koscheck with limited striking
Alves with suspect tdd
Condit no tdd
Paul Daley suspect tdd

again you put 2020 Perry with his skill set (who’s not even top 15) and he becomes a gatekeeper.

His striking is better than Hughes, kos, Fitch

his tdd/ability to scramble is better than condit and hardy and comparable (arguably better) than Alves and Daley

his conditioning would be one of the best at that time and he can take a punch

so again you put 2020 perry in 2010 ufc landscape and he becomes one of the most complete fighters.

his fight iq (similar to your poster iq) is different story...

 

[kflo]

Cowboy's resume is a gatekeeper's resume. Hes had longevity i give you that. But prime for prime Hardy and Swick batters him if you know anything about mma.

Cowboy is a natural LW. He has no business at WW.

The lawler that cowboy was even (at ww) with likely finishes hardy and swick.

 

[pankrat]

The lawler that cowboy was even (at ww) with likely finishes hardy and swick.

It was the only win in 6 fights for Robbie; its expected for a guy with his wear and tear to lose a step, specialliy since USADA around.
Cerrone's record at WW is like 6-6. Hardy and Swick were no world beaters but they handled legit WWs and even MWs back when Cerrone was already a top LW. I think they could give him a competitive fight, certainly tougher than Mike Perry.

 

[Paynebringer]

He took the Champ to a draw last year on a five fight win streak, what did he need to change?

To a draw you say maybe if he had adapted a more inventive style he would've won and continued that streak.

 

[pankrat]

So now you basically agree that a guy who’s not even top 15 in 2020 could beat a guy who fought for a title and was ranked as low as 5 at some point?

Smh

do you even know what you’re arguing anymore?

Hardy being as low as 5 means he was “elite” at that time.

keep in mind a relic Matt Hughes was still top fighter back then

who else was top fighter back then?

Fitch with no striking
Koscheck with limited striking
Alves with suspect tdd
Condit no tdd
Paul Daley suspect tdd

again you put 2020 Perry with his skill set (who’s not even top 15) and he becomes a gatekeeper.

His striking is better than Hughes, kos, Fitch

his tdd/ability to scramble is better than condit and hardy and comparable (arguably better) than Alves and Daley

his conditioning would be one of the best at that time and he can take a punch

so again you put 2020 perry in 2010 ufc landscape and he becomes one of the most complete fighters.

his fight iq (similar to your poster iq) is different story...

All those former top WWs you call one-dimernsional and "suspect" most likely beat any version of Perry and were less "suspect" grapplers than him.

You still struggle to name the best TD artist that a pure striker in Perry has faced in 13 match ups in UFC, yet he is no suspect to you, "the most complete fighter" you say. like a moron. based on his displays vs....Gall, Griffin, who?
Your abysmal sheep IQ doesnt allow you to understand that Perry suits Fitch's stance in this thread perfectly

 

[kflo]

It was the only win in 6 fights for Robbie; its expected for a guy with his wear and tear to lose a step, specialliy since USADA around.
Cerrone's record at WW is like 6-6. Hardy and Swick were no world beaters but they handled legit WWs and even MWs back when Cerrone was already a top LW. I think they could give him a competitive fight, certainly tougher than Mike Perry.

I was responding to someone saying they batter cowboy.

lawler was one fight removed from the title.

 

[pankrat]

I was responding to someone saying they batter cowboy.

lawler was one fight removed from the title.

I dont think they batter cowboy but have dealt with legit strikers at 170 and 185. They can give Cerrone a competitive fight standing and won't get submitted as Perry imo

 

[grimballer]

if you didnt notice this thread you love so much is about MMA. Everyone along 19 pages of thread has understood is about MMA as a whole, not just UFC landscape...until fellow grimball, solid contender to #1 p4p shertard

All those former top WWs you call one-dimernsional and "suspect" most likely beat any version of Perry and were less "suspect" grapplers than him.

You still struggle to name the best TD artist that a pure striker in Perry has faced in 13 match ups in UFC, yet he is no suspect to you, "the most complete fighter" you say. like a moron. based on his displays vs....Gall, Griffin, who?
Your abysmal sheep IQ doesnt allow you to understand that Perry suits Fitch's stance in this thread perfectly

And yet guys with no tdd, like hardy and condit, were getting title shots during Fitchs era...

so much for his point about “overall ability has dropped”



Also Perry did beat Ellenberger (guy who has wins over top guys from that era in koscheck and shields) and Oliveira (guy who choked out another top guy from that era in condit)

that’s what actually happen, not what you think (with your limited knowledge) what would happen

 

[mjfan23]

He is right.

Guys from his era or even before he was fighting like Glover, Reem, and Rua are on a Solid run still so not much evolution or new talent especially at the higher weight classes

 

[Demented]

Outside of Izzy I dont think the strikers are too impressive anymore. I miss Wanderlei, Crocop,liddell, Shogun,Ninja, Anderson Silva, All the attempted K1 fighters trying out in pride, etc etc... Maybe not the most technicle of fighters but good stand up fighters that were fun to watch