"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[Feardoesnotexistinmydojo]

Timestamped

Cliffs:

- Fighters are better athletes but less technically sound than used to b because a lot of the ground and grappling training has been abandoned for the show of standup and being flashy.

- Fighters who you can take down and put in bad positions pretty easily because they are just not used to opposition doing it

- There are a lot of guys who have shorter careers because they focus too much in the standup

- "If we (him and Swick) were to come up at this time, we could be as succesful technically...but if you don't sell tickets the way the promoter wants, they have much more control over fighters nowadays. You literally need a certain number of social media followers to even get signed"

I don't entirely agree but let's remind Fitch is a leading fighter of one of the best and most prolific MMA gyms in the world across two decades. Debut in 2002, arguably beat the Bellator champion in 2019

Disagree, the standard of technique has got substantially better, Fitch or Swick coming through today wouldn’t have cracked top 10. Fighters got much better takedown defence and the ground game evolved, it used to become more of a wrestle/submission wrestling style, either pinning down and stalling or looking for a sub. The ground and pound was an afterthought and it has improved massively (see Khabib). But know it’s used more smartly, takedowns aren’t double legs shot from across the cage anymore

 

[pankrat]

Disagree, the standard of technique has got substantially better, Fitch or Swick coming through today wouldn’t have cracked top 10. Fighters got much better takedown defence and the ground game evolved, it used to become more of a wrestle/submission wrestling style, either pinning down and stalling or looking for a sub. The ground and pound was an afterthought and it has improved massively (see Khabib). But know it’s used more smartly, takedowns aren’t double legs shot from across the cage anymore

Fitch in his prime would not be ranked top10 today? He was ranked top15 still in his 40s, after almost 20 years of grind - and injuries. Very arguably beat Rory past year...which would give him a top10 spot.

> Fitch didnt just mindlessly shoot for double legs across the cage, not at all, nor GnP was an afterthought by 2010 man, we are not talking about 1995.
> The undisputed WW champion in 2020 is Kamaru Usman. He just defended vs short notice Masvidal, who is in this game since 2005. Barely did hurt him.
> Khabib is Khabib, who stepped up his game in AKA along with Fitch btw. Khabib'd dominate past competition as he does today.

Fitch is a staple of AKA, the gym who has produced more UFC champions this decade - including Khabib - if im not mistaken. Actually tested his skills with top10 competition across two decades.
Just to put his opinion in context. Of course we can disagree but Fitch certainly knows better what he is talking about than any of us.

 

[grimballer]

"gotta love the mmath without context"

I delivered context moron, I referenced the age and mileage of Alves and Diego, the health issues that forced Swick to retire...and you tell me about Perry getting married in his late 20s; holly shit you are such a monumental mongoloid

Then you deliver a ridiculous mma math about Shields, Ellenberger, Kos and Condit losses of course with no context whatsoever

Can you get more shertard? Its like you literally have every single feature of the textbook shertard. and a gold belt

Well a guy who’s getting married/divorced within a same year, gets into bar fights, doesn’t have a team behind him and his new gf is his only cornerman is far from “peak” you simpleton

Also you stated using mmath as an argument

Again according to you then

perry > condit, shields and koscheck

 

[PurpleStorm]

Fighters now have to be at least half decent in everything or their weaknesses will be quickly exposed.

 

[pankrat]

Well a guy who’s getting married/divorced within a same year, gets into bar fights, doesn’t have a team behind him and his new gf is his only cornerman is far from “peak” you simpleton

Also you stated using mmath as an argument

Again according to you then

perry > condit, shields and koscheck

"Getting married and get into bar fights" is a more meaningful context than age, mileage and health issues?

Hardy fought for the tittle like Al Iaquinta did not long ago. Righ place, right time.

There is a bigger skil gap in lighest divisions and WMMA relative to 2010, because of money and talent pool.
Overall there is more depth now of course; it doesnt make an above average fighter today in Mike Perry "one of the most complete fighters" a decace ago it's fucking ridiculous

2010 Swick and Hardy could very well give Cerrone a tougher fight than 5'7" Al Iaquinta did, let alone Perry.
GSP could give Usman a tougher challenge than anybody to date
Fitch would grapplefuck any version of Perry all day long.

 

[pankrat]

Fighters now have to be at least half decent in everything or their weaknesses will be quickly exposed.

Fitch is talking relative to his - and GSP generation. Not 1995. Elite fighters were at least half decent by 2010.

Fitch did spoke some time ago about how is it possible that a fighter with a glaring weakness as Michael Page, as skilled standing as he is, didt not get exposed more often. Well, promoters only math him up with standup fighters...and still Paul Daley - who is not better than in 2010 - almost outgrapple him for the upset lol

Another British striker in Darren Till has climbed to top5 ranks at both WW and MW in UFC...yet who is the best TD/grappling especialist he has beat to this day?

 

[iwantmy2dollars]

The NFL is now an offensive league. Several years ago the defensive dominated. Granted some of this is rule changes but over the years the game evolves. The same is likely said for MMA. The stand up to grappling wave has ebbed and flowed many times since the early days and it will again based on who has success.

 

[pankrat]

The NFL is now an offensive league. Several years ago the defensive dominated. Granted some of this is rule changes but over the years the game evolves. The same is likely said for MMA. The stand up to grappling wave has ebbed and flowed many times since the early days and it will again based on who has success.

Dont know about American footbal and how it is promoted but Fitch's point is that "who has succes" or how "the game evolves" is heavily determined by promoters inffluence. They offer better opportunities and easier path to the top to stand up fighters than grapplers, which obviously affects how pro fighters approach their training, according to Fitch.

 

[grimballer]

The NFL is now an offensive league. Several years ago the defensive dominated. Granted some of this is rule changes but over the years the game evolves. The same is likely said for MMA. The stand up to grappling wave has ebbed and flowed many times since the early days and it will again based on who has success.

Same could be said for basketball. Sure there too there were rule changes to make the game more offensive, but overall you can see how players today are more overall skilled than 10 or 20 years ago.

now you have guys like curry or lillard literally being able to shoot the bell as soon as they cross the half court.

someone like harden overall ability to score is probably the best ever

And there wasn’t a player as complete as lebron James.

Now take into consideration that mma is relatively new sport compared to other sports and you could argue it’s not really a sport itself but a combination of other sports

and it’s easy to see why it will evolve so quickly.

 

[grimballer]

Fitch is talking relative to his - and GSP generation. Not 1995. Elite fighters were at least half decent by 2010.

Fitch did spoke some time ago about how is it possible that a fighter with a glaring weakness as Michael Page, as skilled standing as he is, didt not get exposed more often. Well, promoters only math him up with standup fighters...and still Paul Daley - who is not better than in 2010 - almost outgrapple him for the upset lol

Another British striker in Darren Till has climbed to top5 ranks at both WW and MW in UFC...yet who is the best TD/grappling especialist he has beat to this day?

and during that era it was mostly one dimensional or undersized fighters.

most grapplers had limited striking

most strikers had limited grappling

even at the highest level.

gsp was in reality ahead of the game

 

[grimballer]

"Getting married and get into bar fights" is a more meaningful context than age, mileage and health issues? You are a fool.

Hardy fought for the tittle back then like Al Iaquinta did not long ago. Righ place, right time.

There is a bigger skil gap in lighest divisions and WMMA relative to 2010, because of money and talent pool.
Overall there is more depth now of course; it doesnt make an above average fighter today in Mike Perry "one of the most complete fighters" a decace ago it's fucking ridiculous

2010 Swick and Hardy could very well give Cerrone a tougher fight than 5'7" Al Iaquinta did, let alone Perry.
GSP could give Usman a tougher challenge than anybody to date
Fitch would grapplefuck any version of Perry all day long.

getting married/divorced, getting into bar fights, not having proper training camps, no team behind you is far from “peak”....

Also al Iaquinta fought for interim, was riding a 5 fight win streak and was 8-1 in his last 9 fights in ufc.

On the other hand, hardy was on a 4 fight win streak in ufc and got an actual title shot in supposedly one of the deepest weight classes.

And yes sport is more overall popular, more ppl around the world do it, there are more mma organizations around which increases the talent pool.

Overall skill sets also increases.

Again someone like mike perry would be one if the most complete fighters in 2010.

his striking would be above average

his grappling would be above average

his conditioning would be above average

today hes just an average fighter.

 

[Crash Lance]

Humans have been fighting hand to hand combat forever. I don't think we will see anything novel happen. There are only so many ways the body moves.

I disagree. Many of these facts and knowledge have been lost throughout the past 80,000 years.

For the past 200 years, nuclear bombs (and everything weaker than nuclear bombs) and Boxing techniques were considered to be the "only ways to go to war."

Thankfully, MMA techniques are being created and re-created, discovered and REDISCOVERED.

During the Summer Olympics in Ancient Greece, there were tournaments for Pankration.

The sport of MMA is brand-new. However, the discipline that is now called MMA always existed (but was forgotten) and it was called Pankration.

Anything is possible. I can only imagine what the next 10-30 years of evolution in MMA fights will bring.

 

[pankrat]

and during that era it was mostly one dimensional or undersized fighters.

most grapplers had limited striking

most strikers had limited grappling

even at the highest level.

gsp was in reality ahead of the game

You didn't even address the points of the post you're replying. It's like you go in autopilot with your simpleton shitposting

 

[pankrat]

someone like mike perry would be one of the most complete fighters in 2010.

his striking would be above average

his grappling would be above average

his conditioning would be above average

today hes just an average fighter.

Let me summarize for you:

We have a monumental shertard who believes that Mike Perry, who started training MMA late in his life, who was losing to Alan Jouban in 2016, armbared by Cerrone in 2018, and has just gone to decision with Mickey Gall, is the most complete fighter jby 2010 standards

Cerrone - who is in the elite since 2010 - would be the first one to laugh at your statement; and btw Hardy and Swick back in 2010 could very well give him a tougher fight than Iaquinta and Perry did, you moron.

 

[grimballer]

You didn't even address the points of the post you're replying. It's like you go in autopilot with your simpleton shitposting

Only a low iq moron would come to that conclusion

congrats!

 

[grimballer]

Let me summarize for you:

One one hand we have Fitch, a staple of AKA, the gym who has produced more UFC champions this decade - including Khabib - and who has actually tested his skills with top10 competition across two decades, that thinks fighters have generally improved athleticism and standup to favour the promoters, but the overall grappling ability has dropped sustantially

On the other hand, we have a monumental shertard who believes that Mike Perry, who started training MMA late in his life, who was losing to Alan Jouban in 2016 and has just gone to decision with Mickey Gall, is the most complete fighter just a decade ago

By the way, Hardy and Swick back in 2010 could very well give Cerrone a tougher fight than Iaquinta and Perry did, you moron.
Cerrone - who is in the elite since 2010 - would be the first one to laugh at your statement about "Mike Perry most complete fighter in 2010" lol what a fucking ignorant you are yet you have 20,000 posts in a karate forum how is even possible?

let me summarize it for you...

you’re obviously a low iq moron who doesn’t understand mma

congrats!

 

[pankrat]

let me summarize it for you...

you’re obviously a low iq moron who doesn’t understand mma

congrats!

Sure...

"Mike Perry was the most complete fighter in 2010"
- @grimballer

 

[grimballer]

Sure...

"Mike Perry was the most complete fighter in 2010"
- @grimballer

No moron, Mike perry didn’t even fight in 2010... how dumb can you be?

 

[pankrat]

No moron, Mike perry didn’t even fight in 2010... how dumb can you be?

Oh sorry nerd.

"Mike Perry would be the most complete fighter in 2010"
- @grimballer

Now? Or are you embarrassed of your statement? It's normal

 

[grimballer]

Oh sorry nerd.

"Mike Perry would be the most complete fighter in 2010"
- @grimballer

Now? Or are you embarrassed of your statement? It's normal

You’re all over the place kid and don’t even know what you’re taking about.

A 12 year old mentally challenged girl would make better arguments than you