"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[jsbx45]

Fitch wasn't even that great in the UFC. I respect him as a fighter, but lets be real here. His greatest moment was being on the GSP's HL reel.

This is a silly statement. You sound like a noob. For a while there, no one except GSP could stop Fitch, and it was a HUGE statement for GSP to dominate Fitch like he did. Fitch cleaned out the division almost as thoroughly as GSP with the exception of GSP.

 

[kflo]

This is a silly statement. You sound like a noob. For a while there, no one except GSP could stop Fitch, and it was a HUGE statement for GSP to dominate Fitch like he did. Fitch cleaned out the division almost as thoroughly as GSP with the exception of GSP.

noone who fought fitch beat him back then. but there were plenty of other tough matchups for him that he never fought. alves is literally the only title contender that prime fitch beat (unless you want to count diego who fought for lw title). it's silly to argue he cleaned out a division.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

Fitch is gonna make a company that makes fighters more promotable On social media so that they get more money when they sign for peanuts.. CTE?

 

[pankrat]

I know you weren’t aiming the question at me, however.. I would have to go with Gastelum

The fact Gastelum might be the best grappling especialist Adesanya has fought truly helps Fitch's case in this thread.
How did a pure kickboxer as Adesanya got to be MMA champion and defend thrice without facing a better MMA grappler especialist than Kelvin Gastelum? Same for Till.

Gastelum is definitely a standup especialist in MMA, focus his training in footwork/hands way more than matwork. He is a solid wrestler but edges his competition in the feet. Weidman and Magny outgrapple him; got exposed in the ground by Hermansson in one minut and by Jacare in the 1st round too. 39 y.o. Jacare under Usada with one round of gas tank. Till clinched his way with him.

Kelvin is a great boxer by MMA standards imo but not an impressive MMA grappler by any means. Derek Brunson could make a better case than Gastelum though imo

 

[Billthebutcher]

for a guy that recently got submitted and fights maybe once a year i dont believe him. jon just trying to pad a future trainer career.

 

[jsbx45]

noone who fought fitch beat him back then. but there were plenty of other tough matchups for him that he never fought. alves is literally the only title contender that prime fitch beat (unless you want to count diego who fought for lw title). it's silly to argue he cleaned out a division.

Nah. He beat em all as they came and we're offered. Problem with you noobs, is everything can be taken out of context with noob hindsight.

 

[kflo]

Nah. He beat em all as they came and we're offered. Problem with you noobs, is everything can be taken out of context with noob hindsight.

Yeah I’m a total noob.

name the fighters he beat to clear the division genius.

yes. He beat who he faced. He just didn’t happen to face the top of the division much.

 

[jsbx45]

Yeah I’m a total noob.

name the fighters he beat to clear the division genius.

yes. He beat who he faced. He just didn’t happen to face the top of the division much.

Yup. Noob.

 

[kflo]

Yup. Noob.

nice copout response....

 

[jsbx45]

Figure out where fight finder is on your own noob.

 

[CasualBot]

The sport must've evolved because Silva broke his leg, Fedor lost,
and Lesner beat Frank Mir & Couture



Let's not forget Serra and Bisping were both champs.

 

[xP]

his point kind of contradicts itself.

He says that the emphasis on standup makes the overall ability drop, but that doesn't make any sense. For one thing, it is a SHIFT in ability in the mma metagame. A shift is not a decline.

Then he says fighters are easier to takedown and control but that couldn't be further from the truth. That was true for HIS time. How many fights did Fitch or Kos, or just fighters in general from that itme period, win because the other guys level of wrestling was just so low they couldn't compete? The standard of takedown defense and scrambling off your back now is so much higher for guys with no wrestling background. The only guys who win with takedown and control/submission gameplans are guys who are incredibly good at it like Khabib or Usman; specialists. This fact is another reason that the skill level is higher now. Because these are guys with better standup than fighters from the past, who also have better wrestling.

I do think that the level of submission grappling on the mat has stagnated. It might be a little lower because it's just not a rewarding way to fight with the unified rules and everyone's improved grappling. but thats just where the game is right now.

 

[kflo]

Figure out where fight finder is on your own noob.

yeah, continue the copout.

waiting for all the top fighters he "cleared out" in his prime.......

 

[pankrat]

magny and chiesa and of course maia are tough matchups for fitch. i'm not sure who i would favor in those matchups.

So how does Neil Magny gets more credit than Jon Fitch? First of all, I've never seen Fitch being outclassed in the ground as Magny was by the smaller RDA.
They also have two common opponents in Maia and Erick Silva. Fitch gave both a tougher test.
Fitch has outwrestled better wrestlers than Magny while also has the cardio to keep up the pace which is usually one of Magny's main weapons. Fitch in his prime would be the clear favourite in this one.

Chiesa has gone to a decision with Diego Sanchez past year...a guy who is not even half the fighter he was when Fitch beat him 13 years ago. The fact you don't know who would you favour in that match up is pretty telling about how much you underrate Fitch, imo

 

[kflo]

So how does Neil Magny gets more credit than Jon Fitch? First of all, I've never seen Fitch being outclassed in the ground as Magny was by the smaller RDA.
They also have two common opponents in Maia and Erick Silva. Fitch gave both a tougher test.
Fitch has outwrestled better wrestlers than Magny while also has the cardio to keep up the pace which is usually one of Magny's main weapons. Fitch in his prime would be the clear favourite in this one.

Chiesa has gone to a decision with Diego Sanchez past year...a guy who is not even half the fighter he was when Fitch beat him 13 years ago. The fact you don't know who would you favour in that match up is pretty telling about how much you underrate Fitch, imo

who said nagny gets more "credit"? he's a tough matchup for most fighters and definitely very tough for guys who don't have power to take him out (like fitch). they do have one more common opponent, btw......and fitch didn't face alot of wrestlers. and fitch was outwrestled by the smaller bj (until of course bj gasses...)

chiesa beat diego 30-26. fitch won a split decision. not sure why you bring that up as if either outcome proves anything. it's not like diego is easy to finish on the ground even now. again, it's not an easy matchup for a guy who doesn't finish fights (fitch went 19 fights straight without a finish).

 

[pankrat]

who said nagny gets more "credit"? he's a tough matchup for most fighters and definitely very tough for guys who don't have power to take him out (like fitch). they do have one more common opponent, btw......and fitch didn't face alot of wrestlers. and fitch was outwrestled by the smaller bj (until of course bj gasses...)

chiesa beat diego 30-26. fitch won a split decision. not sure why you bring that up as if either outcome proves anything. it's not like diego is easy to finish on the ground even now. again, it's not an easy matchup for a guy who doesn't finish fights (fitch went 19 fights straight without a finish).

I assume no need to tell you about the difference between Hendricks / Sanchez in their prime and past it (and under USADA). It's night and day.
Beating Sanchez in 2007 by SD is a way more legit win than beating him in 2019 even if it is by flying armbar.

Magny is a tough matchup for most people due to his well-rounded skill-set, cardio and durability but any especialist in MMA should have his way with Magny as far as cardio doesnt fail him because he is not elite in any area.
Fitch would force Magny to wrestle with him and he is not getting outgrappled in that match up nor running out of gas and the puncher's chance is always thin for Magny so I don't see a clear way for Neil to win that one.
I definitely disagree with "power" being what gives Magny problems btw; the guy is durable as fuck and usually outlasts the more poweful type of athletes with his endless cardio. The Lombard match was the best example of it, but not the only one.

I just didnt see anything from Chiesa against opponents who werent far removed from their prime to assume he would not be a clear underdog vs prime Fitch tbh. I admit he surprised me vs RDA so I could be wrong or maybe RDA has lost more than one step. We'll see in their next fight

 

[MPD-Psycho]

I agree with the theory that it’s still evolving but not as fast now.

 

[pankrat]

It would be just a case of nostalgia and it wouldn’t be based in reality.

Gilbert burns is basically Alves 2.0 except hes better than Alves pretty much everywhere.

and you keep repeating that “condit gave gsp his toughest fight” like that means anything.

gsp literally td him at will, and expect that 3 round where he landed that kick and a bit of gnp he didn’t do much.

He basically had no tdd and would lose to any decent grappler he would face.

He got his title shot after one most pathetic performances ever where he constantly ran away.

That’s the same time period dan hardy was a title contender?!?

would he even make to ufc today?

Mike Swick was in a 9-1 run in UFC, only loss to Okami at 185. Hardy in a winning streak himself beat Swick in a tittle eliminator.
Of course they both would be UFC caliber by today standards although not in the tittle picture. you had Mike Perry in the rankings and Cerrone top10 not that long ago. how a guy who joined 12 years ago can be so clueless?

 

[John Creed]

Before anyone on Sherdog says it: "If you're a fan of Jon Fitch, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Jake Shields, Georges St-Pierre, Yushin Okami, Kamaru Usman, and many other MMA fighters, then you're a fan of blankets, pillows, sofas, and other furniture."

Not fair to put GSP in the same category as those guys. GSP had great stand-up and he showed it in many of his fights, especially his earlier fights. He just leaned on the grappling sometimes because he became so good at it and it's a higher percentage style

 

[grimballer]

Mike Swick was in a 9-1 run in UFC, only loss to Okami at 185. Hardy in a winning streak himself beat Swick in a tittle eliminator.
Of course they both would be UFC caliber by today standards although not in the tittle picture. you had Mike Perry in the rankings and Cerrone top10 not that long ago. how a guy who joined 12 years ago can be so clueless?

“Clueless” in the eyes of the low iq moron who has no idea what’s hes talking about...

Cowboy was a title contender at lw and had some solid wins at ww.

Perry had couple of decent wins that got him ranked.

neither guy was title contender at ww.

now who did swick beat as a ww?

Josh Burkman, Marcus Davis, Jonathan goulet and Ben Saunders...

yeah definitely as murderers row right there...

get outta here you clown