"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

Jon Fitch was fantastic at what he did. It was just plain boring some times but that's what he had to work with.
Fitch could still drown a lot of up and coming fighters due to their inexperience. As a boxing fan I never found Klitschko fun to watch. Painful how long the HW division was ruled by Wlad (Vitali was good craic to be fair). However that's his style. Its a sport, not WWE.
I liked watching Mayweather fight like a cobra on speed. Its again not the most exciting but its absolutely technically amazing.
Thats how I see sports. I think MMA is trying to be one.
 
Cat Biscuits said:
It has always come down to effectiveness. Ground oriented games aren't always exciting, but specialists who are very effective are still fun to watch.

Ineffective ground fighting is just as boring to me as ineffective standup. Watching a sparring match on the feet isn't any better or worse than blanket fighters on the ground.
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Well stated. Bryce Mitchell, Charles Oliveria, good examples of guys with exciting ground games off the top of my head.
 
grimballer said:
It would be just a case of nostalgia and it wouldn’t be based in reality.

Gilbert burns is basically Alves 2.0 except hes better than Alves pretty much everywhere.

and you keep repeating that “condit gave gsp his toughest fight” like that means anything.

gsp literally td him at will, and expect that 3 round where he landed that kick and a bit of gnp he didn’t do much.

He basically had no tdd and would lose to any decent grappler he would face.

He got his title shot after one most pathetic performances ever where he constantly ran away.

That’s the same time period dan hardy was a title contender?!?

would he even make to ufc today?
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Dan Hardy would headline for sure if he returned.. the early prelims.
 
ArmenianAssasin said:
Fitch wouldn’t be a top 20 fighter now
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I agree. He was an also-ran / never-was in UFC during GSP’s reign, putting together 2 streaks of mostly forgettable decisions, and then pissed hot towards the end of his career. GSP tooled him on the feet, and so would most of the current top MMA welterweights.
 
Eric Silva 2.0 said:
It shouldn't be best striker but best MMA fighter. I say let the grapplers grapple. If you can't stop Marty then you got to deal with getting beat up in the clinch and GNP'ed. Strikers will learn TDD and the sport improves. I don't like emphasis on striking only. It's bad for the sport and encourages the casual idiots. The casuals eventually leave because you can't satisfy that crowd. That's why the big sports are always changing the rules to accomodate them (football...can't touch receiver anymore..no bump and run...no hard tackling etc.. NBA no hand checking, you can palm, travel etc...). MMA is a great sport, if you don't like grappling then as the british say, piss off!
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Again though I think part of the problem is that the sports devolved when it comes to grappling and part of what started that was IMHO guys like Fitch looking to win via control alone. It was an effective tactic for awhile in the US environment but it didnt take long before you had fighters developing counters to it, because relatively few fighters have genuinely dangerous sub grappling it was possible to pull off alot of quite cheap tactics.

You look back to Pride for example and fighters giving up their back to stand up was MUCH less common and I think a big reason for that they were much more likely to be facing high level sub grapples who giving your back up to was much more dangerous.

Its part of why Maia carried on being relevant for so long, at WW especially elite BJJ is so rare he gives alot of fighters problems when they try to use these tactics.
 
I think you are underappreciating Maia. I've seen a lot more guys use uppercuts and knees to catch guys coming in for takedowns. Also, those elbows to the side of the head are very effective (Hendricks vs GSP round 1 for example). I don't like stand up fights only. Look at Khabib and Marty. Great grappling still wins and Marty has improved tremendously on the feet and Khabib has shown some improvement too.
 
pankrat said:
Israel vs 2010 Silva plays out similarly to their actual fight but more tight. A sweet feint fest that could turn out uneventful. I think Silva has a better chance of landing a devastating shot.

Kamaru vs 2010 GSP is also a toss-up imo, I don't think GSP has an easy time anywhere but he could edge a decision. Similarly to the Hendricks fight.

Khabib vs 2010 BJ, Edgar, Maynard or Pettis would probably end dominating, but some could give him a tougher fight than his most recent challengers.

Volk vs 2010 Aldo, close one. Hominick gave Aldo a tough fight and could get outpointed but was also faster and more capable of finishing the fight than Volk imo

Yan vs 2010 Cruz, I favour Dominck by angles and TDs. if not for the injuries Cruz would be a p4p all-time great imo
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Hominick didn't give Aldi a tough fight,;it was a gutsy performance in wich he was battered for 4 rnds
 
Blayt7hh said:
It’s not a myth it does continue to evolve. The evolution is just in short steps now instead of the leaps and bounds we were seeing in the past.
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It's not a myth but it's way overstated in these boards. Regarding the heavier weightclasses in MMA there has not been lot of "evolution" at the highest levels in this past decade, and it's more of a tactical edge than anything else at this point.
 
pankrat said:
It's not a myth but it's way overstated in these boards. Regarding the heavier weightclasses in MMA there has not been lot of "evolution" at the highest levels in this past decade, and it's more of a tactical edge than anything else at this point.
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I do agree with that. I do also believe that some of the best fighters of the golden era would be in the title picture today
 
Fitch is right. Just look at how quick Dana is to send guys like him, Shields, Okami packing. Even Phil Davis.

If Kabib wasn't a dominant champ that brings in $$ from the Middle-East/Russia and was the #8 LW, he'd probably be released or put on undercards.

At the same time fighters have gotten very good at nullifying BJJ/wrestling without actually being great at either. So it is a double whammy favouring stand up.

The interesting thing though is the impact being in nothing but standup brawls will have on these fighters. How much damage have Holloway and Poirier taken on the feet over their career? And they are still relatively young. That ain't good for the noggin.
 
That's just not true. Both standup and ground techniques are better than they've ever been. It used to be people brawling, and then the first person to take someone down and get mount would win. Now mount doesn't mean squat, other than that it sets up taking the back.

There's a lot more going on in the fight game now, and the reason dominant grapplers (like Khabib) are so dangerous is that they're so far beyond everyone else. Everyone is more skilled on the ground now, so things that worked years ago don't anymore. The result is it looks like everyone is average, when in reality everyone just nullifies each other.
 
Gamer2k4 said:
That's just not true. Both standup and ground techniques are better than they've ever been. It used to be people brawling, and then the first person to take someone down and get mount would win. Now mount doesn't mean squat, other than that it sets up taking the back.

There's a lot more going on in the fight game now, and the reason dominant grapplers (like Khabib) are so dangerous is that they're so far beyond everyone else. Everyone is more skilled on the ground now, so things that worked years ago don't anymore. The result is it looks like everyone is average, when in reality everyone just nullifies each other.
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Those guy aren't good grapplers. They didn't develop any real grappling skills. They just developed nullifying skills. Like Fitch type wrestlers in the past developed BJJ nullifying skills, but didn't actually develop any real BJJ; hence all Fitch could do was lay and pray. Fighters just have wrestling nullifying skills now. All together, they're less skilled than they were in the past, for sure.
 
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