The Miguel Torres - Demetrious Johnson Robbery

[Marcusklimstra]

Yeah I was upset with decision too...THat was actually one of the best fights I have seen in a long time. SO many excellent scrambles and techniques displayed. MMA is for wrestlers not BJJ, which is unfortunate.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I actually agree. I think he lost round 2 by getting his guard passed at the very end.
Also Mighty Mouse did a little bit more damage in the second half of the fight.

how about migule passed mms guards as well, not to mention he swept him and mounted him?

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

how about migule passed mms guards as well, not to mention he swept him and mounted him?

Well, it was a close fight for sure. I watched it after reading this thread and looking for a way to actually giving it to the other guy. It just seemed he had a little edge to me in round 2. But maybe if I watch it again, I change my mind again.

To be honest it was a little frustrating that he couldn't pull through on any of the subs and even more so how little he did with the position after reversing, you gotta admit that much.

 

[YeahBee]

Joe loves wrestlers. I was also shocked he wasn

 

[Drew Foster]

Just saw the fight. I had Torres winning the fight. I knew, however, about 1 minute into the second round, that unless Torres finished, the judges would give it to Mouse. It's a damn shame. Torres was close to finishing on a couple chokes it looked like. Even if he wasn't, he had more effective striking and grappling offense than Mouse. Still close, as there were some moments were Mous was definitely in control on the ground, and obviously his takedowns were great. Fun fight.

 

[YeahBee]

the takedowns only look so good because Torres doesn't defend much. I think it is a sound philosophy actually

He knew he would be taken down anyway so better to focus on getting getting his guard going, not waste energy defending, when he knows that you are losing on the score cards if you are pressed up against the fence to

A Silva is kinda the same way

And his philosophy works both ways, when he got tagged standing he took DJ down

instead of like most guys meeting strength with strength Torres adapts, he is like a rock paper scissor fighter

 

[Drew Foster]

the takedowns only look so good because Torres doesn't defend much. I think it is a sound philosophy actually

He knew he would be taken down anyway so better to focus on getting getting his guard going, not waste energy defending, when he knows that you are losing on the score cards if you are pressed up against the fence to

A Silva is kinda the same way

And his philosophy works both ways, when he got tagged standing he took DJ down

instead of like most guys meeting strength with strength Torres adapts, he is like a rock paper scissor fighter

Yeah one or two of Mouse's takedowns almost looked like guard pulls honestly.

 

[YeahBee]

he is so tall for the weightclass that defending will always be hard, just like Grove vs Boetsch

hips are so high up for those lanky dudes, and even defending against the cage you are working against a guy using his bodyweight and strength with only strength so you'll tire out

 

[joe90210]

they need to allow upkicks and heel kicks from the guard to give the guy on the bottom more weapons and also knees to the head from side control, that will give the wrestlers more incentive to try and pass the guard.

 

[gullis187]

they need to allow upkicks and heel kicks from the guard to give the guy on the bottom more weapons and also knees to the head from side control, that will give the wrestlers more incentive to try and pass the guard.

If they allowed the 12 to 6 elbows stalling in the guard would be fucking gone. Look at Florian - Lauzon. So pissed those elbows arent allowed. Wrestling biased rules!!

 

[VicDienekes]

Aggression, no?

Unqualified aggression isn't really in the scoring criteria. Judges are supposed to look specifically for effective aggression, which probably speaks to knoxpk's comment on what value missed submissions should be afforded. However, the unified rules hold that creating threatening submission attempts constitutes control in addition to being effective grappling and should be weighted accordingly. Though giving up position in the process would aid your opponent's case for the ten points as effective defense, effective grappling and control of the arena. Seems fair to me.

The rules aren't really the problem, the inept judges are.

Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.

Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.

Effective striking is judged by determining the number of legal strikes landed by a contestant and the significance of such legal strikes.

Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.

Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler's attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking; taking down an opponent to force a ground fight; creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.

 

[Drew Foster]

they need to allow upkicks and heel kicks from the guard to give the guy on the bottom more weapons and also knees to the head from side control, that will give the wrestlers more incentive to try and pass the guard.

If they allowed the 12 to 6 elbows stalling in the guard would be fucking gone. Look at Florian - Lauzon. So pissed those elbows arent allowed. Wrestling biased rules!!

I agree. Nowadays, if you have just basic submission defense from inside the closed guard you are in no real submission danger unless someone pulls out some crazy low percentage move like a gogoplata.

The only real option for the fighter on bottom these days is to get up. In some ways, I have no problem with that, and it's what Dave Camarllo teaches the guys at AKA.

 

[KJGould]

Stand, Sweep, Submit.

 

[facejam]

No matter what, if you're on top, you are the dominant fighter. Whoever looks dominant, wins the fight. Even if you're a blanket for the whole fight, stupid but that's how the judges are.

 

[TheCuttlefish]

I didn't know MMA gave out points for takedowns. How many points did Torres get for his sweeps?

Well there have to be points somewhere right? Otherwise the judges are just pulling decisions out of their ass... oh.

I was just making the joke, since this a grappling forum, that DJ scored more points than Torres did. Obviously it's not fair to judge the fight that way since Torres would have pulled guard in a BJJ match and passed up a few attempts to mount/sweep late in rounds to go for subs.

 

[johil d'o]

I thought it could have gone either way. Miguel has an amazing guard. It made me realize the advantage of super-flexible legs, lower back and hips -- he could lay his legs out sideways like he's doing the splits from his back and basically off-balance his opponent by shifting his hips and moving his legs.

 

[YeahBee]

they need to allow upkicks and heel kicks from the guard to give the guy on the bottom more weapons and also knees to the head from side control, that will give the wrestlers more incentive to try and pass the guard.

the no upkicks and heel kicks and even Florian-esque elbows are completely counteracted by the no knees on the ground

knees on the ground by wrestlers would fight deciding way way way more then any thing that the dude on bottom could do

 

[gullis187]

knees on the ground by wrestlers would fight deciding way way way more then any thing that the dude on bottom could do

thats true, a wrestler with a firm frontheadlock + knees to the head would be devestating.

 

[Jaxx]

Whilst we are it it, bring back headbutts + watch wrestlers win even more.

Watched the fight again. Great match and very close, absolutely not a robbery. I know Torres has a good guard but why not use more striking with that unbelievable reach advantage?

 

[td82394]

I don't get it. Mighty Mouse might've got the TD, but Miguel was the one on top for the majority of the fight IMHO.