The Miguel Torres - Demetrious Johnson Robbery

top game.

In judo guard and halfguard are neutral, and considered an advantageous position.

And you fail to realize that under IBJJF rules he also won, the strikes and the submission attempts (which under IBJJF is only one advantage 0 points) is what people say tilts the balance over to Torres, both which have ZERO relevance to either Judo or BJJ where they dont exist.

So, dont play the style issue where there is none.
 
I remember thinking Mouse owned the standup....
 
In judo guard and halfguard are neutral, and considered an advantageous position.

And you fail to realize that under IBJJF rules he also won, the strikes and the submission attempts (which under IBJJF is only one advantage 0 points) is what people say tilts the balance over to Torres, both which have ZERO relevance to either Judo or BJJ where they dont exist.

So, dont play the style issue where there is none.

torres had like 5 sweeps, plus 2 guard pass and one mount...

mm had like 5 tds, no sweeps, and 2 guard pases...

I seriusly will like to know how could he have won that fight under ibjjf rules.

Johnson 0 13 of 23 57% 63 of 92 5 of 5 100% 0 3 1
Torres 0 10 of 19 53% 95 of 115 0 of 1 0% 3 5 2

those are the stats, just because someone thought was bright enough to say, Hey mm won the grappling fight unde ibjjf rules donesnt mean is right...

TDs 5x2= 10
Guard passes 3x3= 9
Sweeps O, fightmetric does not make difference between sweeps and reversals, MM had no sweeps.

Tds 1x2=2
Guard passes 5x3=15
Sweeps 2x3= 6
Mount 1x4=4

19 vs 27 ...

is really not that hard to check the facts...
 
I broke it down by grappling only rules in a bunch of other threads. MM won easily by IBJJF and ADCC. The stand up was basically non existent.

More importantly just beacuse all of these guys gave the fight to torres does not make it right. I posted the rules, i explained why I felt it was so close that either decision could be argued. The first us definitely Torres, but how in the hell can we give Torres the second(as all the sherdog pbp guys did. He had 0 actual sweeps. He swept to a standup then got taken down. MM passed his guard to side control?

The third is the question. It was clearly very close, but MM had three TDs, was swept to mount, but got passed on top once. Either way you score it, its close. Personally I think 10-10 is the fairest. Although watching it for the first time the last TD kinda gave MM the edge, after the rewatch I felt 10-10 was the best score.


I disagree, he gave up positions, and finishing fights in the second and third are incredibly difficult. The sweat makes subs almost nonexistent, and although he had him on the defensive he did give up postions in the 2nd and 3rd.

For the record, MMA judging the way it is actually gives points for having an active guard. That seems awfully fair when I have never seen that in a BJJ comp. How much better can it get, give more emphasis to the guard so guys are throwing up sloppy attempts to look active becasue its weighted more than before?

Close fight, good fight, 29-28 either guy is acceptable, i prefer 29-29 draw. NO way is it 30-27 imo.

you broke the grappling match WRONG.

under Ibjjf MM got his ass kicked, not sure about ADCC, because I read that reversals are giving points just as sweeps... not sure about the rules.
 
torres had like 5 sweeps, plus 2 guard pass and one mount...

mm had like 5 tds, no sweeps, and 2 guard pases...

I seriusly will like to know how could he have won that fight under ibjjf rules.

Johnson 0 13 of 23 57% 63 of 92 5 of 5 100% 0 3 1
Torres 0 10 of 19 53% 95 of 115 0 of 1 0% 3 5 2

those are the stats, just because someone thought was bright enough to say, Hey mm won the grappling fight unde ibjjf rules donesnt mean is right...

TDs 5x2= 10
Guard passes 3x3= 9
Sweeps O, fightmetric does not make difference between sweeps and reversals, MM had no sweeps.

Tds 1x2=2
Guard passes 5x3=15
Sweeps 2x3= 6
Mount 1x4=4

19 vs 27 ...

is really not that hard to check the facts...

Fightmetrics counts guard to halfguard as pass and doesnt has the 3 second rule.

And Judo has no "points"
 
I really hope Dana, Coker and whoever else has power to sway the Athletic Commissions to recognize that takedowns with no damage shouldn't be so highly valued. Its right there in the rules that damage takes precedent over effective grappling and takedowns should be valued the same as a sweep or near submission.

Matches like this make me want to boycott the UFC or Strikeforce until changes are made. If only we had a jiu jitsu channel (or a channel that dedicated a few hours day to grappling), I would probably skip half of or most of the mma events.
 
Anyone just catch this fight on the UFC 130 prelims? Seriously, what do you have to do to make it clear to the judges that you're the offensive fighter despite being on your back? Even though Torres was able to sweep Mighty Mouse in rounds 1 and 3 and was constantly going for the finish, he still loses 29-28? At worst, I saw this fight as 30-28 in favor of Torres with the 2nd round being 10-10 (and even that's a stretch, IMO).

Anyway, if it hadn't already been established that the guard is all but dead in MMA, it seems pretty clear now. If you don't finish the fight, you're going to lose even if your opponent wasn't able to do any damage and mounted virtually zero offense. I honestly can't even see how the takedown could be perceived as the round-winning factor in a fight such as this one, as it consistently put Johnson into defensive positions.

Anyone have any thoughts on the fight or the current status of the guard in MMA?

That what will happend when you not fight for the fan.
 
even mighty mouses own corner was telling him he was losing and to stop going for the takedowns. :icon_lol:

I feel like torres won, but by the slimmest of margins. Like a close split decision.
Regardless, it was still the most interesting fight of the night.
 
If this fight was scored by pride judges or anyone who understands grappling at all then torres would have won 30-27. It is true that mighty mouse controlled where the fight was with his takedowns but if torres had just held on the fight would have been stood up many times.

This fight shows a sad truth that it can be more beneficial for fighters to stall fights from the bottom instead of working for sweeps and submissions.
 
Fightmetrics counts guard to halfguard as pass and doesnt has the 3 second rule.

And Judo has no "points"

yep, but actually, miguel did passes mm guard lots of times, everytime he would achive hafl guard, he would've passed.
 
you broke the grappling match WRONG.

under Ibjjf MM got his ass kicked, not sure about ADCC, because I read that reversals are giving points just as sweeps... not sure about the rules.

Where? I went rd by rd. And a sweep only gets points if its held for atleast three seconds. Reversals are never given pts. So going from side control bottom to side control top doesn't get PTA IIRC.

I'm all for debate, but at least come with an argument besides I'm wrong.
 
Where? I went rd by rd. And a sweep only gets points if its held for atleast three seconds. Reversals are never given pts. So going from side control bottom to side control top doesn't get PTA IIRC.

I'm all for debate, but at least come with an argument besides I'm wrong.

miguel did hold the sweeps for more than 3 secs.

I know, and Miguel clean sweep him at least 2 times... MM did not do it once...
 
Miguel got one clean sweep in the 3rd as far as I could tell. He nearly had 2 cleans sweeps in the third but was unable to stabilise mount from a guillotine / elevator sweep (his feet and knees were floating off the ground while Johnson worked to regain guard to alleviate the choke).
 
Just watched it & i gotta agree on Torres winning that fight
 
Only Mighty Mouse nutlickers would think he won that fight.
 
Miguel got one clean sweep in the 3rd as far as I could tell. He nearly had 2 cleans sweeps in the third but was unable to stabilise mount from a guillotine / elevator sweep (his feet and knees were floating off the ground while Johnson worked to regain guard to alleviate the choke).

This is how I saw it too. Personally I don't think the near sweeps that led to basically an escape should really count as effective grappling.but he got mount from the sweep and the attempts make it close. I personally scored it 10-10. But 10-9 either way can be argued fairly.

But I think the second was easily MM although I can see the argument for Torres too
 
Miguel got one clean sweep in the 3rd as far as I could tell. He nearly had 2 cleans sweeps in the third but was unable to stabilise mount from a guillotine / elevator sweep (his feet and knees were floating off the ground while Johnson worked to regain guard to alleviate the choke).

he got a clean mount on the 3rd. rewatch the fight again.
 
2:05 left on the 3erd, he got a hip bump and a mount.
 
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