The Miguel Torres - Demetrious Johnson Robbery

[cjlewis01]

2:05 left on the 3erd, he got a hip bump and a mount.

That would be the clean sweep. He nearly swept him two other times. He used the sweeps to stand up, Then got taken down. 3 times on that rd alone.

Waiting for where I messesd up scoring that fight

 

[KJGould]

he got a clean mount on the 3rd. rewatch the fight again.

I know he got one clean sweep in the third, he held it with a low mount and grapevines for a while. I'm debating the one later on when he has a guillotine.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I know he got one clean sweep in the third, he held it with a low mount and grapevines for a while. I'm debating the one later on when he has a guillotine.

sorry, my bad...

 

[cjlewis01]

you broke the grappling match WRONG.

under Ibjjf MM got his ass kicked, not sure about ADCC, because I read that reversals are giving points just as sweeps... not sure about the rules.

Here is my breakdown following GRAPPLING RULES, IBJJF, and ADCC.

If you think I am wrong please tell me where and explain your POV.

Here is the breakdown of Torres Vs MM


round 1
Torres
sweep(guard to Mount-2 pts IBJJF, 4 ADCC
Guard Pass(guard to side)-3 I, 3 A
ADV on first choke attempt- IBJJF
Guard Pass- 3 I, 3 A
Adv on another sub attempt.
Totals- IBJJF - 8, ADCC- 10

Johnson
TD to guard- 2 IBJJF, 2 ADCC
Reversal- 0 IBJJF, 4 ADCC(I am not sure about this one. I thought anything from sidecontrol bottom was an escape and not awarded pts. anyone with more experience please clarify
Back w/o hooks- 0 IBJJF, 3 ADCC
Totals 2 IBJJF, 9 ADCC

Any help on this would be cool, I am not that good at keeping score

RD 2

Torres
None of the sweeps landed him on top for 3 seconds IMO,
Possible advantages in IBJJF, I counted three

Johnson
TD x 2
Pass to Side x 1

7 Adcc and IBJJF

after 2 rounds I have it
ADCC-16-10 johnson
IBJJF - 9-8 johnson

Round 1 to Torres, Round 2 to Johnson

Round 3
Torres
Sweep x 1
ADV x 2 for almost completion of sweep and choke

3 IBJJF, 4 ADCC

Johnosn
TD x 3
Pass to Side
Back w/o hooks

13 ADCC, 9 IBJJF

TOTALS

29-14 ADCC Johnson RD 2, 3 obviously his
18-12 IBJJF Johnson also RD 2, 3 obviously his.

I think the judges got it right, and remember guys if its not 3 seconds its most likely just scrambling

For all those saying it was a ROBBERY really need to question the definition of a robbery. This was a close fight and I disagree that the bottom on fighter should be allowed "active points" in a grappling match. ADVs work because there an actual score being kept.

I also can't see how we change the scoring system and not make it possible to be abused by guys throwing up sloppy attempts and losing position(not saying torres did that). The current system actually gives an active guard its own emphasis in the criteria. That is huge, how much more do we want.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

torres mounted him on the 3rd, I think you should re watch the fight.

 

[elbigsam]

I really support the idea that mma does away with judges. If it goes the distance then it is a draw. With win money on the line, it seems like finishes would be the norm. There is no accurate way to judge a mma fight. Can't really judge damage, some guys are bleeders. Can't judge effective takedowns vs guard. Just lose the judges alltogether

 

[Jeff Goldblum]

when will judges award points for sub attempts and sweeps? And before some says, "not every sub attempt will cause a tapout," ..I know this, but on the same hand not every strike causes a KO - and they still gain you points.

surely giving some incentive for sub attempts could only be a positive thing for the sport... at least you are Trying to finish a fight rather than lay and pray.

 

[Oblivian]

when will judges award points for sub attempts and sweeps? And before some says, "not every sub attempt will cause a tapout," ..I know this, but on the same hand not every strike causes a KO - and they still gain you points.

surely giving some incentive for sub attempts could only be a positive thing for the sport... at least you are Trying to finish a fight rather than lay and pray.

Do you honestly think sub attempts aren't given any points at all? I disagree with you on that. I think there are just a lot of considerations for it. How long was the sub in? How close was it? Did the fighter end up losing position? Etc.

 

[YeahBee]

I really support the idea that mma does away with judges. If it goes the distance then it is a draw. With win money on the line, it seems like finishes would be the norm. There is no accurate way to judge a mma fight. Can't really judge damage, some guys are bleeders. Can't judge effective takedowns vs guard. Just lose the judges alltogether

I would support this only if fights were longer. I don't want to see artificial fighting to please a crowd.

scoring should be based upon who would win in a NHB setting

 

[Oblivian]

I really support the idea that mma does away with judges. If it goes the distance then it is a draw. With win money on the line, it seems like finishes would be the norm. There is no accurate way to judge a mma fight. Can't really judge damage, some guys are bleeders. Can't judge effective takedowns vs guard. Just lose the judges alltogether

I can't believe some of the shit that I read on this forum.

You've got to be kidding me, right? Do you realize how many draws we would have? Do you not realize the other implications that brings? If someone is behind in a fight, why not just try to hold on so it's a draw? Someone getting the total shit kicked out of them for 3 rounds will be the same as really close fight.

People need to quit acting like all decisions are so bad. I swear MMA fans can be so dramatic. Think of all the solid fights that we've had that go to decision. Some fighters are just tough as hell or have great sub defense. Not everyone is fighting specifically to go to a decision - it just happens.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I can't believe some of the shit that I read on this forum.

You've got to be kidding me, right? Do you realize how many draws we would have? Do you not realize the other implications that brings? If someone is behind in a fight, why not just try to hold on so it's a draw? Someone getting the total shit kicked out of them for 3 rounds will be the same as really close fight.

People need to quit acting like all decisions are so bad. I swear MMA fans can be so dramatic. Think of all the solid fights that we've had that go to decision. Some fighters are just tough as hell or have great sub defense. Not everyone is fighting specifically to go to a decision - it just happens.

I dont think its a good idea, but right now, what we seeing is guys holding down other guys, and no matter what happens on the ground, if he can successfuly stay on top, even when getting his ass whooped (ala King mo vs mousasi) he wins... so its really not that much differnt.

 

[Wutang]

I dont think its a good idea, but right now, what we seeing is guys holding down other guys, and no matter what happens on the ground, if he can successfuly stay on top, even when getting his ass whooped (ala King mo vs mousasi) he wins... so its really not that much differnt.

I think in the eyes of the judge it shows that the person on top is dictating the position and where the fight goes. In the case of MM, most of the fight was where he wanted it. He would takedown, almost get reversed, stand back up and get another takedown. Torres had a very hard time controlling where the fight went.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I think in the eyes of the judge it shows that the person on top is dictating the position and where the fight goes. In the case of MM, most of the fight was where he wanted it. He would takedown, almost get reversed, stand back up and get another takedown. Torres had a very hard time controlling where the fight went.

I didnt seem like Miguel was that uncofortable off his back, so we may pop the question, who was controling whom?

 

[MickCollins]

In the case of MM, most of the fight was where he wanted it.

In many cases, I agree with you. However, in that fight, MM wanted the fight on the ground and was getting beaten on the ground. Miguel didn't seem to care if the fight was on the ground or standing. Being on top doesn't mean you are winning a fight on the ground, which is how the Judges saw it and its bullshit.

 

[10thplanetbjj]

this is exactly how i saw it, too. i think mighty mouse had some good escapes though.

I thought Miguel one rounds 1 and 3. At the same time he didn't do enough and i can see why MM got the decision. However, educated judges would have given it to Miguel. Wasn't shocked like many the Miguel lost. Lay and pray and its best. Fight was very similar to brilz vs noguiera only noguiera managed to sweep and stay on top and do some actual damage, which miguel didnt do.

 

[mixmaster staph]

I thought Miguel one rounds 1 and 3. At the same time he didn't do enough and i can see why MM got the decision. However, educated judges would have given it to Miguel. Wasn't shocked like many the Miguel lost. Lay and pray and its best. Fight was very similar to brilz vs noguiera only noguiera managed to sweep and stay on top and do some actual damage, which miguel didnt do.

Let me guess, you learned a new move called "The Necromancer" and wanted to try it out?

 

[Magjee]

Sherdog play-by play had it:

30-27 Torres
30-27 Torres
30-28 Torres

Versus all three ringside judges going 29-28 Johnson.

It sucks, Torres is a top fighter, very exciting and a good guy