The evangelical vote

[jeremyemilio]

so you don't even know what scripture they are referring to, are not curious enough to ask and yet still make the claim that it is not in there?

i don't really have an opinion on this and haven't looked into it that deep. many scholars believe it is a direct prescription for abortion but of course there will be apologist doing everything they can to make it sound like that is not the case.

this comes after drinking the prescribed drink offered by the priest.




Numbers chapter 5
Here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.” (NIV)

Most scholars agree that "miscarry" is a really odd translation there, and that the original seems to suggest becoming barren.

 

[jeremyemilio]

^^^^^^

you might also be interested in the fact that biblical historians are certain that if you go back far enough to at and before the time that abraham was asked to sacrifice his child by God that human sacrifice was a regular practice by the semetic peoples.

Yes. But then God revealed himself to Abraham as a Deity who wasn't into that sort of thing. That's more or less what the incident with Abraham and Isaac is about. This was pre Moses and pre Law, remember.

 

[jeremyemilio]

That's all it really comes down to. They vote on this one issue and forget the other GOP stances like the death penalty, kicking people off healthcare, and just general lack of charity.

And the irony is that God actually approves of abortions in the Bible.

In most studies Conservatives have been found to be significantly more charitable than Progressives.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Trump needs a bible that has an arrow and says this side up. Also, his favourite verse is , ah lots of them. Hahahaha

I think Trump was holding that Bible right side up. The ribbon bookmark generally comes out the bottom of a Bible. The suggestion that the Bible was being held upside down seems to have come from people who were less familiar with Bibles than Trump is (and to be clear, regardless of which way the Bible was pointing, it's obvious that he's pretty unfamiliar and is just putting on a very bad show of it).

 

[woodguyatl]

hi everyone!

the election is upon is and as the day fast approaches, there's a voting bloc that has proven indestructible over the past few decades for the GOP; the mighty evangelical christian vote.

i was curious - why do you think they're rallying to President Trump over former VPOTUS Biden?

i can understand why they'd support Bush 1 over Mike Dukakis. Mr. Bush was a war hero, displayed folksy humility, was married to someone who looked very ancient, and seemed like an all-around good guy (with the exception of his decades long efforts to destabilize Central America, which were almost certainly war crimes). plus, Dukakis had a funny looking picture taken of him in a tank.

i can understand why they'd supported Bush 2 over Al Gore. the younger Bush was a born again christian and an amiable former drunk. plus, evangelicals were probably nauseated by the scandalous behavior of outgoing President Clinton, what with the blowjob and blue dress and associated terribleness.

i can even understand why they'd support Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton - since its commonly understood that Mrs. Clinton was the most villainous, mephistophelian entity to exist in human existence. due to her rampant and unbridled corruption evangelicals had no choice, afterall.

which brings us to the here and now.

Joe Biden, a catholic, attends mass every sunday (roughly one in five Americans attends religious services weekly). he carries a rosary in his pocket.

"All of you remind me of how Scripture describes a calling born out of the wilderness," Biden told the virtual audience. "A calling to serve, not to be served. A calling toward justice, healing, hope — not hate. To speak the good news, and followed by some good deeds. It's not just enough to speak the good news, but good deeds."

Sister Carol Keehan, who's often credited as a key player in the passage of the Affordable Care Act when she was president of the Catholic Health Association, agreed.
"He's very clear about justice," she said. "When Joe Biden talks about faith, he talks very much about things like the Gospel of Matthew — 'what you've done to the least of my brother, you've done to me.' "

Friends and staffers say Biden focuses on faith, rather than religious doctrine; he prays with voters, rather than proselytizes.


is Joe Biden perfect? like, is he a saint? no...i'm not saying that. he has, at the very least, given birth to Hunter Biden, which to some constitutes a treasonous offense. i get it. but other than that, doesn't Joe seem like someone who sort of believes in God? like, its part of his life, and if its a charade, he's managed to keep the act up for quite a while.

why are evangelicals rejecting Mr. Biden for Mr. Trump?

- IGIT

Evangelicals don’t view Catholics as Christian. Instead they view it more as an ancient cult.

 

[jeremyemilio]

The Bible literally has God telling Moses to abort fetuses of unfaithful women.

Literally only one respected translation (the NIV) of dozens interprets it that way, and almost all scholars think it's a bad interpretation. A few verses later it is stated that if the woman is not guilty, once she has gone through her voodoo magic witch trials ritual (because let's be real, here, this is frightful stuff, abortion aside) she will be able to conceive and gave children. That alone suggests that the effect of the bitter water is to make one barren, not to abort the fetus.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Biden believes women have a right to choose and given the opportunity will appoint judges that agree. Closed case. For them abortion is murder.

Now if evangelicals wanted to think a little deeper they’d grapple with the fact that Trump doesn’t care if people die from the coronavirus. But rational thought and logic isn’t cool for a lot of these folks. The smart ones are conflicted over Trump.

People are able to accept a whole host disgusting behaviours if the actor is at arm's length and aligns with them politically. Just look at the number of people who still joke around about Bill Clinton's predatory behaviour with a young intern as being some irrelevant sideshow trumped up by the GOP.

My rule of thumb is this: If you would be shocked and disgusted to see a given behaviour in your own spouse, or sibling, or parent, or child, you probably shouldn't be so quick to give complete strangers a pass just because they align with you politically.

 

[skold]

 

[jeremyemilio]

hi HOLA,

when Donald Trump said, "two corinthians", i thought for a moment he was introducing a joke. as in, "two corinthians walk into a bar...".

- IGIT

A lot of people say Two Corinthians.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

I think Trump was holding that Bible right side up. The ribbon bookmark generally comes out the bottom of a Bible. The suggestion that the Bible was being held upside down seems to have come from people who were less familiar with Bibles than Trump is (and to be clear, regardless of which way the Bible was pointing, it's obvious that he's pretty unfamiliar and is just putting on a very bad show of it).

Honestly, it doesn’t matter, it was his look of confusion that was the kicker. I just find it funny that the religious right has decided to hitch itself to Donald trump of all people. I get it, he is leading the political party they support, so it makes sense. But when you hear more and more about trump and what kind of person he is, well you are gonna hear the term hindsight is 20/20 a lot after he is out of office.

 

[ElKarlo]

You’ve seen the picture, right? Probably shouldn’t be joking about that.

Exaggerating to distract is his tactic. Back out the lucifer and other nonsense and the other claims are founded in reasonable evidence. Guy is just making smoke screen

 

[Squarechoke]

They support Trump because calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean that you're putting in the effort to actually follow the Christian teachings. I only see INO Christians in the US.

 

[Topguntrophey]

“F Christmas” - naked First Lady

 

[ultramanhyata]

"When Joe Biden talks about faith, he talks very much about things like the Gospel of Matthew — 'what you've done to the least of my brother, you've done to me.' "

Some journalist just needs to ask Trump, "Do you believe the meek will inherit the earth?"

 

[ultramanhyata]

And the irony is that God actually approves of abortions in the Bible.

That is inaccurate. Though it is true that the law of Moses very clearly differentiates between the accidental killing of a child in utero and the accidental killing of a birthed human being. And makes the punishment for the latter greater than the punishment for the former.

 

[IGIT]

The Evangelical support for the GOP (and conservative parties in other parts of the world) is overstated. People who align more closely with progressive values are much less likely to define themselves as evangelicals... even if they attend the same churches as evangelicals and volunteer and worship alongside of evangelicals.

I'm not saying there's no correlation. But it's not as monolithic as often portrayed.

Walk into most Evangelical churches and conduct a truly anonymous survey on a range of topics, and you'll find out that an awful lot of them align with progressives on LGBTQ+ issues, women's rights, social programs, the economy, and more.

(Abortion is still somewhat more of a sticky topic, and likely will remain so for a long time.)

But when those people are called in polling efforts, they don't declare themselves as Evangelicals because that word carries connotations with which they don't identify.

hiya jeremyemillo,

i can't say i know that much of the mindset of evangelical voters on a first hand basis; all i know is what i read -

The survey’s findings about 2020 voting intentions are in line with long-term trends in party identification. White evangelical Protestants – Trump’s strongest supporters – are the most solidly and consistently Republican among major religious groups in the electorate, and they have grown even more uniformly Republican in recent decades.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...vor-trump-over-biden-but-support-has-slipped/

there is a bit of slippage in his support from evangelicals, but over 70% of them are still solidly behind the POTUS.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

A lot of people say Two Corinthians.

hi again jeremy,

it was Mr. Trump's unusual cadence. i guess it didn't line up with what i'm used to hearing when folks quote scripture.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Some journalist just needs to ask Trump, "Do you believe the meek will inherit the earth?"

hi there ultra,

this story always warms my heart;

One day in 2015, Donald Trump beckoned Michael Cohen, his longtime confidant and personal attorney, into his office.

Trump was brandishing a printout of an article about an Atlanta-based megachurch pastor trying to raise $60 million from his flock to buy a private jet. Trump knew the preacher personally—Creflo Dollar had been among a group of evangelical figures who visited him in 2011 while he was first exploring a presidential bid. During the meeting, Trump had reverently bowed his head in prayer while the pastors laid hands on him. Now he was gleefully reciting the impious details of Dollar’s quest for a Gulfstream G650.

Trump seemed delighted by the “scam,” Cohen recalled to me, and eager to highlight that the pastor was “full of shit.”

“They’re all hustlers,” Trump said.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...cretly-mocks-his-christian-supporters/616522/

without commenting too much on what President Trump's heartfelt convictions are, i just don't understand why evangelicals find Joe Biden so distasteful.

i get that Mr. Biden supports a woman's right to choose and that's heavy lift for evangelicals, but if you look at the data, the US rate of abortions decreases under Democratic presidents and policies, while the rate remains pretty stagnant under Republican administrations.

i find their lockstep support of Mr. Trump mystifying. it makes me wonder what its really based on.

*muses*

if the Democratic party platform shifted into one that was entirely "pro-life" i think the evangelicals would still turn their backs on the Democrats.

i think the issue is bigger than abortion, in the same way steadfastly "fiscally conservative" Americans still vote for Republicans for the Presidency, despite the reality that it was Carter, Clinton and Obama who've been the fiscal conservatives.

there's something else going on.

- IGIT

 

[HereticBD]

there's something else going on.

It's called putting people in power that will be more favorable to them. Joe Biden can be a good Christian all he wants, but when you represent a party that's openly hostile to staunch Christian values, it doesn't matter. Much like it doesn't matter to them if Trump bangs a hooker on a mountain of blow, as long as the ends justify the means.

It's really not that complicated.

 

[StrikerKing]

Probably because the left vehemently hates Christianity and sides with Marxist radicals like BLM/Antifa who have burned down churches and attacked churchgoers.

This is a absurdly broad, and false, generalization.