Crime Texas: Two fat hillbillies kill a Father over garbage

[Ghost in the Dark]

Any idea of when the first hearing will be yet?

 

[retsdon]

Not sure how this 'stand your ground' law is supposed to work. On your own property when you're dealing with an unwanted intruder, perhaps fair enough. But in a public place when both parties are carrying weapons of any kind, basically it's an invitation to a Mexican standoff. What would have happened if both sides had been armed with guns? The OK Coral?

In this case both parties were at fault, but in my view the onus of responsible behavior should always rest with the person carrying the lethal weaponry. A firearm is supposed to be a defensive weapon of last resort and that definitely wasn'tthe case here. Certainly the party who got shot was verging on irrational anger and making threatening noises. But at any point in this whole tragedy the two fat blokes could have said 'Look, we can see you're very angry, listen maybe we can sort this out later when you've calmed down', and just turned and walked away. No, instead they calculatedly goaded the man towards a physical confrontation. And how can the fat father claim the right to designate a couple of square feet in a public alley 'his ground' and then kill someone who steps onto it? How is that law supposed to work? Can I just do this anywhere?

People are saying that the wife or the brother in law should have tried to defuse the situation - and I don't think anyone could argue with that. But they weren't the ones to kill someone. If I were jury and judge in this case, I'd hang that father and - especially the shotgun wielding son - out to dry.

 

[Madmick]

@KaraHoward
I don't care that the rednecks are headed to prison, but frankly, I don't find you a reliable witness/narrator.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/john-miller-michael-miller-aaron-howard/

“He [Howard] didn’t even swing it, he threw it over both of their heads and it landed behind them in the alley,” Box told KTXS. “That’s when the old man fired past my face and shot Aaron in the chest twice with the pistol.”

He threw the bat at the father. It is caught in of the frames from your own video:

I have no sympathy for decision-making this terrible. I don't see this as the behavior of a victim.

 

[Ruprecht]

@KaraHoward
I don't care that the rednecks are headed to prison, but frankly, I don't find you a reliable witness/narrator.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/john-miller-michael-miller-aaron-howard/

He threw the bat at the father. It is caught in of the frames from your own video:

I have no sympathy for decision-making this terrible. I don't see this as the behavior of a victim.

It's clear from the video that two shots were fired before the bat was thrown, but the camera is on the son at that stage.

 

[Madmick]

It's clear from the video that two shots were fired before the bat was thrown, but the camera is on the son at that stage.

Not the point. The bat wasn't thrown "over their heads". Ergo, I have no reason to believe that he didn't swing the bat before this when I couldn't see what was happening.

 

[Ruprecht]

Not the point. The bat wasn't thrown "over their heads". Ergo, I have no reason to believe that he didn't swing the bat before this when I couldn't see what was happening.

Who is claiming that he did swing the bat though? The dialogue suggests that he was stepping towards them after they told him they would shoot him if he came any closer.

 

[Madmick]

Who is claiming that he did swing the bat though? The dialogue suggests that he was stepping towards them after they told him they would shoot him if he came any closer.

Don't know, don't care.

I'm focused on the discrepancy between the claim here and the video evidence. It's an untruth.

 

[Ruprecht]

Don't know, don't care.

I'm focused on the discrepancy between the claim here and the video evidence. It's an untruth.

In terms of the bat being thrown over their heads and landing in the alley, not in terms of the bat being swung which doesn't appear to be claimed by anyone (he doesn't appear to have been in striking range).
Since shots had already been fired at that stage, I'd assume the attention was already on Aaron.

 

[Madmick]

In terms of the bat being thrown over their heads and landing in the alley, not in terms of the bat being swung which doesn't appear to be claimed by anyone.
Since shots had already been fired at that stage, I'd assume the attention was already on Aaron.

We don't know what happened before the first shots. We never did. We do know the claim about the bat being thrown "over their heads" is a lie. Knowing this, there is no reason to trust any claims about what did or did not happen prior to the shots that we couldn't see as declared by the progenitor of that lie.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

We don't know what happened before the first shots. We never did. We do know the claim about the bat being thrown "over their heads" is a lie. Knowing this, there is no reason to trust any claims about what did or did not happen prior to the shots that we couldn't see as declared by the progenitor of that lie.

Jeezus, Mick, it could just be the normal amount of embellishment you might expect from somebody associated with this situation, and who has admitted to questioning their actions that day. Not only that, but that still frame is hardly the kind of evidence you want to go all in on when being confrontational with the avowed widow of a recent murder victim. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[Madmick]

Jeezus, Mick, it could just be the normal amount of embellishment you might expect from somebody associated with this situation, and who has admitted to questioning their actions that day. Not only that, but that still frame is hardly the kind of evidence you want to go all in on when being confrontational with the avowed widow of a recent murder victim. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

The caveat is the space this sort of "embellishment" will fill if one allows it. Bargaining takes many forms. I'm not being confrontational. She's the one who came to Sherdog and this thread. This is candor.

I don't perceive Aaron as a victim beyond a collapse of proportion. I can't control if that frankness offends people. Pathos isn't my moral authority.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The caveat is the space this sort of "embellishment" will fill if one allows it. Bargaining takes many forms. I'm not being confrontational. She's the one who came to Sherdog and this thread. This is candor.

I don't perceive Aaron as a victim beyond a collapse of proportion. I can't control if that frankness offends people. Pathos isn't my moral authority.

If this thread could teach us anything its to know when to hold 'em, know when to walk away. You've been dealt a 4 (screen cap) and you're pushing chips around like you caught your 4th ace on the river.

 

[Madmick]

If this thread could teach us anything its to know when to hold 'em, know when to walk away. You've been dealt a 4 (screen cap) and you're pushing chips around like you caught your 4th ace on the river.

This isn't a game. There are no chips, and there are no stakes.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

This isn't a game. There are no chips, and there are no stakes.

You're calling the avowed wife of a murder victim a liar.
What is at stake are her emotions, and your dignity.
Your gambling both on a still frame of a chaotic video from a cell phone.
Not worth it.

 

[Madmick]

You're calling the avowed wife of a murder victim a liar.
What is at stake are her emotions, and your dignity.
Your gambling both on a still frame of a chaotic video from a cell phone.
Not worth it.

Right here you demonstrate the special value you place on pathos. I didn't show up to his funeral. I didn't stalk her on her social media. She came here. I don't see the rationale behind the expectation that this thread must become an effort to manage her grief. It is not my duty to console her.

I am not in control of her emotions. She is in control of her testimony.

 

[retsdon]

Not the point. The bat wasn't thrown "over their heads". Ergo, I have no reason to believe that he didn't swing the bat before this when I couldn't see what was happening.

Well, as I said further up the thread, in a situation like this the onus should always be on the one with the firearm to walk away. Their lives or property weren't under imminent threat, there was no crime in progress, and there's no reason to suppose that if they'd retreated Aaron would have followed. Sorry, if you deliberately goad an irrationally angry man - even if he then turns violent - as far as I'm concerned that doesn't constitute self-defense.

 

[deadshot138]

Madmick doing his best F. Lee Bailey impersonation here. Thankfully he’s not representing the red necks in court. They likely have public defenders.

 

[Madmick]

Well, as I said further up the thread, in a situation like this the onus should always be on the one with the firearm to walk away. Their lives or property weren't under imminent threat, there was no crime in progress, and there's no reason to suppose that if they'd retreated Aaron would have followed. Sorry, if you deliberately goad an irrationally angry man - even if he then turns violent - as far as I'm concerned that doesn't constitute self-defense.

I imagine that's why they have been charged with first degree homicide.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

I imagine that's why they have been charged with first degree homicide.

You are behaving really weird in this thread and a senior mod too. Maybe take a step back from the forum, walk your dog or some thing and come back later?

TX doesn't have degrees of murder, it has:

Murder

In order to be charged with murder, the defendant must have knowingly and willingly caused the death of another person. The biggest distinguishing factor between murder and manslaughter involves the intent of the perpetrator. If the defendant intended to cause serious bodily harm or death, or intended to commit a felony other than manslaughter that resulted in death, he or she can be charged with murder.

The distinction between capital murder and murder is made when the killing was committed in a way that can result in capital punishment in Texas. Some of the criteria for capital murder include killing a police officer or firefighter, having been paid to commit murder, murdering someone in prison, or killing more than one person.

With regard to capital murder, obviously, the punishment can result in the execution of the defendant. A defendant who is convicted of capital murder could also be given life in prison without the possibility of parole. A murder charge without capital implications, on the other hand, is a first-degree felony which can result in anywhere from 5 to 99 years in prison and a fine of no more than $10,000.

Several defenses, such as insanity or a crime of passion defense, can result in lesser charges or penalties in murder cases.


Manslaughter

Many states have two different forms of manslaughter: voluntary and involuntary. Texas, however, combines these two charges into one and has enhanced penalties for certain aggravating factors.

To be convicted of manslaughter, a defendant must be proven beyond reasonable doubt to have recklessly caused the death of another person. As opposed to murder, intent does not need to be proven in order to convict someone of manslaughter.

While Texas does not distinguish between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, it is the only state that has a specific crime known as “intoxication manslaughter,” which is reserved for when a death is caused by someone who was impaired by drugs or alcohol. This charge most often applies to impaired motorists. All manslaughter charges in Texas are second-degree felonies which carry prison sentences of 2 to 20 years and fines up to $10,000. Intoxication manslaughter may also result in minimum sentencing (meaning you must serve a certain period of time before being eligible for parole) and a mandatory 240-800 community services hours.

/

Looks like murder to me.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

Edit - I cant read

Oh yes you can't.