STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[YellowBanenoo]

If you liked that, you're gonna love this.

You know Rian cleaned Kathleen kennedy's old saggy cunt with his tongue in order to get that directing job.

 

[YellowBanenoo]

What I wanted to see in TLJ

What they gave me

 

[BisexualMMA]

Apparently if you make strong female characters, you have an agenda.

If you have strong male characters, you're just making a movie.

Not to be argumentative...but the director tweeted this.

I don't think people have an issue with a female protagonist or strong female characters. There weren't nearly this many complaints about Rey being the lead in The Force Awakens, or Jin being the lead in Rogue One.

However, The Last Jedi does continually abound with men being emasculated, chastised, demoted or nullified by female characters. I would say to the point of absurdity. Poe's entire character arc is an essay on toxic masculinity.

It's an entirely different approach to female characters, and especially their relation to male characters, than something like Aliens, GI Jane or Working Girl, all three of which are movies that I frequently praise.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Ya’ll are being skillfully trolled re: Luke the molester scene

OR ARE YOU

Remember the priest boner in little mermaid!?! And all that other subliminal sex shit in Disney movies!?

I know this post is only semi-serious, but for what it's worth, I think what Rian Johnson is doing is different. In these Disney instances, some goof just stuck a perverted frame or image in there to see if he could get away with it. As a credit of sorts to Johnson's filmmaking, the things he put in had a purpose for his characters and narrative.

 

[minute bull]

 

[BisexualMMA]

A war criminal against her own Resistance, she is best known for thwarting rebel fighter Finn's attempt to disable a weapon that was about to murder every remaining member of the Resistance. Since this act of treason, speculation has abounded as to whether she is a First Order double agent.

She also once released a space horse into the wild.

 

[liljoe]

I forgot to mention the Yoda scene which Yoda felt so out of place I actually at first thought it was Snoke projecting a fake Yoda or like a representation of the darkness in Luke or something. So that was kinda weird.

Really? You are aware it's essentially a play on the first time he appears in ESB. Just pops up on Luke out of nowhere. Exact same thing.

 

[YellowBanenoo]

 

[DrBdan]

Really? You are aware it's essentially a play on the first time he appears in ESB. Just pops up on Luke out of nowhere. Exact same thing.

The issue in my eyes is that Yoda was never really a goofy character. He was only goofy when he first met Luke and was testing him. Once he revealed himself to be Yoda he was serious (and also in the prequels). The topic of the conversation was serious (I liked the "we are what is moved past, that is the burden of the master" line though I don't think enough training or experience was shown for Rey to have moved passed Luke) so Yoda should have been serious.

This highlights an issue with ep 7 and 8 (especially 8). They want to use the built-in appeal of the old characters while adding more modern touches and it feels inconsistent. If you want a cocky Jedi then write one into the story (or go watch Rebels where you have cocky Ezra and wise Kanan) but don't have Luke brushing dirt off his shoulder (a modern reference) moments after having a touching moment with Leia (we only care because of the originals).

 

[BisexualMMA]

The issue in my eyes is that Yoda was never really a goofy character. He was only goofy when he first met Luke and was testing him. Once he revealed himself to be Yoda he was serious (and also in the prequels). The topic of the conversation was serious (I liked the "we are what is moved past, that is the burden of the master" line though I don't think enough training or experience was shown for Rey to have moved passed Luke) so Yoda should have been serious.

This highlights an issue with ep 7 and 8 (especially 8). They want to use the built-in appeal of the old characters while adding more modern touches and it feels inconsistent. If you want a cocky Jedi then write one into the story (or go watch Rebels where you have cocky Ezra and wise Kanan) but don't have Luke brushing dirt off his shoulder (a modern reference) moments after having a touching moment with Leia (we only care because of the originals).

For all my criticisms of this film, I actually liked Luke brushing the dirt off his shoulder. I thought that entire scene was executed quite masterfully. The wink to C3PO, the framing of the showdown...

Unfortunately, he was also doing it so well so he could stick it to the audience by killing Luke for no reason right after.

I will agree with you that there were issues where modern things were thrown in, at least with dialogue. I thought several of the lines were really "not very Star Wars." Things like "let's go chrome dome" and Poe referred to something as a "big ass [whatever it was]." There were a few other instances...but I think those lines could have used another pass. Then again, maybe it was intentionally more of "2017ing Star Wars up bitches."

 

[Loiosh]

Not to be argumentative...but the director tweeted this.

I don't think people have an issue with a female protagonist or strong female characters. There weren't nearly this many complaints about Rey being the lead in The Force Awakens, or Jin being the lead in Rogue One.

However, The Last Jedi does continually abound with men being emasculated, chastised, demoted or nullified by female characters. I would say to the point of absurdity. Poe's entire character arc is an essay on toxic masculinity.

It's an entirely different approach to female characters, and especially their relation to male characters, than something like Aliens, GI Jane or Working Girl, all three of which are movies that I frequently praise.

I had seen that tweet; FYI, Poe was a traitor and a mutineer.

And HOLY SHIT were there a metric fuckton of complaints about Rey in the first movie.

Look, I have said repeatedly that I didn't care for TLJ. There are a lot of things that were just bad. The characters weren't bad because of a feminist agenda, they were just bad.

 

[Bob Gray]

The Jedi seem to always be doing this. This is why Luke's behavior in TLJ shouldn't be that surprising.

It is not something that's out-of-character for a Jedi. It's actually in line with the tradition established by earlier stories.

But it goes back to one of the bullet points that divides the camps on this movie. It isn't what they do, it's how. You can have Luke being doubtful, you just have to sell it. Him being doubtful and breaking off from the force is exactly the same thing as sayin "I'm going to let the most insidious influence in the Galaxy further corrupt my nephew and let the dark side of the force achieve as much power as it wants."

Because doubts? Or something?

They never sold this whole "Kylo is so dark Luke wanted to kill his own nephew". Especially with him still being so conflicted. As a side note, Rian Johnson said recently in an interview that he thinks Kylo is still redeemable and Vader is worse than he ever was which makes no goddamn sense given Luke's actions in episodes 6 and 8.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I had seen that tweet; FYI, Poe was a traitor and a mutineer.

And HOLY SHIT were there a metric fuckton of complaints about Rey in the first movie.

Look, I have said repeatedly that I didn't care for TLJ. There are a lot of things that were just bad. The characters weren't bad because of a feminist agenda, they were just bad.

Well, I was not one of the complainants about a female protagonist. But I think the agenda in The Last Jedi is pretty apparent...blatant even.

Lines like Poe when he first sees Admiral Holdo... "Not what I expected."

The movie couldn't just have a female admiral. It had to tell the audience through Poe, "yeah that's right we've got a female admiral." Just let the female admiral speak for herself through her actions.

I think I have to disagree with a bit of your statement about the bad characters. I think the feminist agenda specifically damaged characters that might / would have otherwise been good. Had Poe not needed to be put in his place and needed to learn to follow directions from women, there would have been no reason for Holdo to keep her plan from him, which was basically the worst part of her character. Well, that or the hair. I think teaching Poe and the audience that lesson crept into the plot dynamics and created an unnecessary issue.

 

[TrueBias]

I had seen that tweet; FYI, Poe was a traitor and a mutineer.

And HOLY SHIT were there a metric fuckton of complaints about Rey in the first movie.

Look, I have said repeatedly that I didn't care for TLJ. There are a lot of things that were just bad. The characters weren't bad because of a feminist agenda, they were just bad.

Agreed and its why i dont give the feminism undertone any thought. The movie has so many fuckups that if that shit is there too, its merely part of thr list.

That's what i hated about this star wars movie and it must he clear... Its not just 1 or 2 things. Its a collection of fuckups. This and this alone is why i am absolutely astounded at anyone saying this movie was good or better than a 6. I literally cant believe them. It always comes across as someone fucking with me.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Well that's only going to get worse. Disney has said their plan is to make one Star Wars movie a year for as long as people will continue to pay to see them.

I guess thats the way Hollywood is now.

 

[Loiosh]

Well, I was not one of the complainants about a female protagonist. But I think the agenda in The Last Jedi is pretty apparent...blatant even.

Lines like Poe when he first sees Admiral Holdo... "Not what I expected."

The movie couldn't just have a female admiral. It had to tell the audience through Poe, "yeah that's right we've got a female admiral." Just let the female admiral speak for herself through her actions.

I think I have to disagree with a bit of your statement about the bad characters. I think the feminist agenda specifically damaged characters that might / would have otherwise been good. Had Poe not needed to be put in his place and needed to learn to follow directions from women, there would have been no reason for Holdo to keep her plan from him, which was basically the worst part of her character. Well, that or the hair. I think teaching Poe and the audience that lesson crept into the plot dynamics and created an unnecessary issue.

Why is it an agenda, and not simply plot points?

This film clearly had a different take on things. It broke a lot of archetypes. It did so poorly.

Were those archetypes an agenda, or were they just how things are?

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but compared to Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, I thought Hamill looked quite young and capable. Certainly, of the three, the one most believably up to the task of an adventure.

He definitely aged the best out of the three. I thought he looked small even next to Daisey Ridley

 

[Loiosh]

Agreed and its why i dont give the feminism undertone any thought. The movie has so many fuckups that if that shit is there too, its merely part of thr list.

That's what i hated about this star wars movie and it must he clear... Its not just 1 or 2 things. Its a collection of fuckups. This and this alone is why i am absolutely astounded at anyone saying this movie was good or better than a 6. I literally cant believe them. It always comes across as someone fucking with me.

This was literally the only Star Wars film where I felt nothing at all during the film.

The one moment I got excited was Luke walking out alone, and then they took that away from us.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Why is it an agenda, and not simply plot points?

This film clearly had a different take on things. It broke a lot of archetypes. It did so poorly.

Were those archetypes an agenda, or were they just how things are?

Like I said, the emasculation and negation of the male characters was so consistent throughout the movie that it seems clearly to me to be part of one of the theses of the film.

I think the film pursued a feminist agenda to the point that it sacrificed the integrity of the narrative to some degree in order to achieve this.

But as I'm sure anyone who has read this thread knows, I think this was at most a distant second when it comes to my issues with the film, if it even is #2.

 

[BisexualMMA]

He definitely aged the best out of the three. I thought he looked small even next to Daisey Ridley

To Harrison Ford's credit, he is almost 10 years older than Mark Hamill.

When 75 years old I reach, look as good, I will not.