Crime Springfield, Ohio: migrant workers from Haiti exploited

[ChosenOne]

The plan seems to be essentially this:

1. Allow millions of migrants to cross the border with no resistance

2. Give them temporary IDs while their application is "processed" and after 150 days, a work permit

4. Their applications are never processed. In the rare event of a rejection, no effort is made to remove them from the country

5. New permanent underclass, millions strong thus very hard / impossible to remove (the gov. has no intention of removing them), to be exploited by the corpos forever, or until the powers that be decide to use them for something else

The criminals running the US openly flaunt the rule of law every day, so you saying they're "legal" doesn't mean much. It's "legal" on a technicality, and because the laws on the book are never enforced. It's unethical, underhanded, borderline criminal and only barely accepted by the public through copious amounts of propaganda, also creating useful idiots like you in the process.

ya, you are hopelessly lost.

This discussion is about the Haitian workers who Springfield business leaders and politicians actively went out and recruited in 2017, when Trump was POTUS, giving them help with the temporary worker process and providing the path way to citizenship because the town was suffering a crisis level shortfall of workers putting ever more businesses and the town itself at risk.

Your rant above does not apply to this thread at all.

 

[ChosenOne]

That's in the case of sylum seekers. There is indeed a problem with the asylum process, there's a huge backlog and it leads to the scenario you described there playing out. The bipartisan border bill was supposed to help deal with that by allocating funding for more judges and lawyers to better process asylum seekers in a timely manner.

But Haitians are different, they are here under TPS which is a similar but distinct system whereby immigrants from a given country like Haiti and Venezuela are allowed to stay because the situation back home is catastrophic.

And that is not even the case here.

These are people Springfield went looking for and targeted. They sat around and put together marketing material on 'moving to SPringfield' and put together lawyers to help them with the process.

Many of these Haitians were already in other parts of the country, legally working and moved to Springfield based on that marketing material as it seemed to offer a better path for them, with more opportunity and legal help.

 

[ChosenOne]

Or you just eliminate some of these trash jobs from the economy. Who is it helping for some impoverished person to work two shitty low paying part time jobs? The corporate owners and that's it. Why do we need to keep importing people to work for a substandard wage? The "job metrics" are a lie. We don't fucking need millions and millions of shitty low paying jobs that no American will work because they can't pay rent making $10 or $12 an hour.

That is how small towns crumble. Lack of working age folks means not enough to fill in job openings which causes those businesses to contract and ultimately leave town which further reduces overall demand in the local economy which means more economic contraction. If the argument is that you'd rather see small towns die off than take in immigrants then that's fine but if you're arguing that keeping immigrants out helps the local economy then I totally disagree.

Mike is as clueless as possible.

Eliminating 'trash jobs' and shrinking the economy does not result in more good jobs just springing up for the people like him who want them.

He has it exactly backwards, especially when it comes to these smaller communities. It is being able to sustain the 'trash jobs', such as my example of the migrants coming in to pick grapes for the wine industry in Canada, that is the basis for an entire ecosystem of jobs to sustain, when otherwise they would have no jobs and be ghost town areas.

Those 'trash jobs' lead to restaurants, bars, hotels, and more factories etc being able to open and sustain as HISTORY has taught us.

Imagine giving Mike the power to change history. As the Italians, Russians, Poles, Roma, Jews, Irish, and wave after wave came to America, after the Great Depression and in almost all instanced filled the 'trash jobs' , Mike instead kept them out, and just had those industries die.

Sorry but MIke wants to play the "i am not xenophobic, i am nice' but his inability to recognize ALL OF HISTORY denies what he is saying is true, means he is hopelessly lost in xenophobic rhetoric, at best, or a willing repeater of it and xenophobic/racist, at worst.

There really is no option C i can see.

 

[Mike]

Did all 20k spontaneously come to Springfield in one year?

Who brought them in?

The employer. Obviously?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Or you just eliminate some of these trash jobs from the economy. Who is it helping for some impoverished person to work two shitty low paying part time jobs? The corporate owners and that's it. Why do we need to keep importing people to work for a substandard wage? The "job metrics" are a lie. We don't fucking need millions and millions of shitty low paying jobs that no American will work because they can't pay rent making $10 or $12 an hour.

I agree it would be great if everyone made above-average wages. What's your plan to make that happen? Trying to reduce our total economic output will just reduce wages.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Just look at any threads about immigration (legal or illegal) and you’ll find the common sentiment from lefties that these folks are a boon to our economy.

Something I think a lot of you hacks can't wrap your heads around is that liberals and leftists disagree with elected Democrats about the issue. Liberals tend to be more pro-market than the average Democrat, and leftists tend to be more extreme in their anti-market sentiment.

 

[Mike]

Sigh. Businesses closing because there aren't enough workers is surely not helping anyone. Towns going bankrupt because of so many businesses shutting their doors is not helping anyone either.

Regarding the first paragraph, when employers are desperately looking for people aren't job seekers going to go for the best positions they can get? Of course, the lowest paying jobs will generally be their last choice. Whether those jobs pay a living wage or not, this is not evidence of it.

What is this circle circle nonsense? So do you or do you not agree that if employers are allowed to pay a substandard wage, employees will eventually seek our jobs that are paying market rate? Isn't this what the fuck you guys said is supposed to happen in a free market economy? If what's on offer is complete SHIT then workers will just decide not to work there?

Oh wait I forgot you "capitalists" embrace a communist model really fuckin fast when nobody in the first world wants to work for a third world salary.

 

[Jack V Savage]

What is this circle circle nonsense? So do you or do you not agree that if employers are allowed to pay a substandard wage, employees will eventually see our jobs that are paying market rate? Isn't this what the fuck you guys said is supposed to happen in a free market economy? If what's on offer is complete SHIT then workers will just decide not to work there?

Oh wait I forgot you "capitalists" embrace a communist model really fuckin fast when nobody in the first world wants to work for a third world salary

A capitalist model suggests that whatever people are working for, unless they are being forced, is by definition market wages.

And if workers don't want to work for the highest wages the market is offering, the business is just not viable. Like if Uber drivers don't accept wages low enough for the company to be profitable, we just don't have Uber. Same applies to tomatoes or anything else.

 

[Mike]

Mike is as clueless as possible.

Eliminating 'trash jobs' and shrinking the economy does not result in more good jobs just springing up for the people like him who want them.

He has it exactly backwards, especially when it comes to these smaller communities. It is being able to sustain the 'trash jobs', such as my example of the migrants coming in to pick grapes for the wine industry in Canada, that is the basis for an entire ecosystem of jobs to sustain, when otherwise they would have no jobs and be ghost town areas.

Those 'trash jobs' lead to restaurants, bars, hotels, and more factories etc being able to open and sustain as HISTORY has taught us.

Imagine giving Mike the power to change history. As the Italians, Russians, Poles, Roma, Jews, Irish, and wave after wave came to America, after the Great Depression and in almost all instanced filled the 'trash jobs' , Mike instead kept them out, and just had those industries die.

Sorry but MIke wants to play the "i am not xenophobic, i am nice' but his inability to recognize ALL OF HISTORY denies what he is saying is true, means he is hopelessly lost in xenophobic rhetoric, at best, or a willing repeater of it and xenophobic/racist, at worst.

There really is no option C i can see.

What a fucking joke lmao. You forgot to add Posted From My Life In The Upper Middle Class while I watch some poor fuck I don't care about starve because he doesn't have any leverage. But hey it's not my problem, I only PRETEND to care about the working class. I mean I don't have to live in poverty so it isn't MY problem.

 

[ShadowRun]

Amd then I mention I'm black when they start going that route and they act super surprised that I brought it up. Oh race what's that got to do with anything?!?!

Ya full time troll who is a mod tried to play that on you I see . lol

 

[Natural Order]

The party of unions turning a blind eye to scab practices by big companies. Lol

 

[Jack V Savage]

What a fucking joke lmao. You forgot to add Posted From My Life In The Upper Middle Class while I watch some poor fuck I don't care about starve because he doesn't have any leverage. But hey it's not my problem, I only PRETEND to care about the working class. I mean I don't have to live in poverty so it isn't MY problem.

This is exactly backwards. You're trying to mask bigotry as concern for poor people, while advocating policy that will make people poorer.

 

[Andy Capp]

What is this circle circle nonsense? So do you or do you not agree that if employers are allowed to pay a substandard wage, employees will eventually seek our jobs that are paying market rate? Isn't this what the fuck you guys said is supposed to happen in a free market economy? If what's on offer is complete SHIT then workers will just decide not to work there?

Oh wait I forgot you "capitalists" embrace a communist model really fuckin fast when nobody in the first world wants to work for a third world salary.

LOL I'm not "you guys". You keep dodging what I said and making up something else instead. I don't understand why. You've been attributing qualities to me that are completely made up since my first post ITT.

Re: the bold text, you cut out the part of my post where I agreed with you that strengthened protections for workers, especially foreign workers, are very important and a benefit to everyone. You cut out the part of my post that shows huge amounts of jobs left unfulfilled and the economic woes that accompany that circumstance. You ignore all reasoning that contradicts you and respond with emotional attacks.

Guess what? I'm working class, just like you. In fact, I'd bet a nickel you make more than I do and I work six days a week on average. I live in a little house with a modest mortgage. Your accusations about me aren't worth a flying fuck.

I think your country is shit when it comes to the rights of workers. Every "right to work" state can get fucked with a sharp stick. I think you need a national minimum wage that includes service people and gig workers such as we have here in Canada.

But none of that is good enough reason to let the town of Springfield die just because you object to them bringing in workers from another country.

 

[Andy Capp]

The party of unions turning a blind eye to scab practices by big companies. Lol

But is that what they are? Or is it that the population has shrunk so much there's no one to work there?

Pro tip: Read my other recent posts ITT for the answer.

 

[Mike]

Ya full time troll who is a mod tried to play that on you I see . lol

It's honestly super, super sad how bad leftists have gotten in the last five years. People I legit used to consider friends don't even know who I am anymore and attack me relentlessly for not towing a party line. It's so sad what happened to intelligent debate in the world in the last ten years or so. Not on my side on everything all the time? RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.


I don't even know what the fuck to do with these "modern" citizens anymore. When I was growing up people knew you couldn't fucking trust politicians or corporate America. Everyone is indoctrinated now and it shows. "Show me 1000 pieces
of evidence or everything must be fine comrade"

They think corruption doesn't exist unless you have supreme court level evidence and give large greedy corporations the benefit of the the doubt in literally every situation. Only people that don't understand how selfish and evil corporate America is could be this naive.


Like I said and will keep saying they were brought up middle class or higher never having to suffer any hardship at the hands of corporations and it absolutely shows.

These people are soft and naive, because they've never experienced what life is like for people at the bottom.

 

[Andy Capp]

Ya full time troll who is a mod tried to play that on you I see . lol

 

[Mike]

LOL I'm not "you guys". You keep dodging what I said and making up something else instead. I don't understand why. You've been attributing qualities to me that are completely made up since my first post ITT.

Re: the bold text, you cut out the part of my post where I agreed with you that strengthened protections for workers, especially foreign workers, are very important and a benefit to everyone. You cut out the part of my post that shows huge amounts of jobs left unfulfilled and the economic woes that accompany that circumstance. You ignore all reasoning that contradicts you and respond with emotional attacks.

Guess what? I'm working class, just like you. In fact, I'd bet a nickel you make more than I do and I work six days a week on average. I live in a little house with a modest mortgage. Your accusations about me aren't worth a flying fuck.

I think your country is shit when it comes to the rights of workers. Every "right to work" state can get fucked with a sharp stick. I think you need a national minimum wage that includes service people and gig workers such as we have here in Canada.

But none of that is good enough reason to let the town of Springfield die just because you object to them bringing in workers from another country.

You live in a house while I live in a studio apartment despite the fact that I do extremely exhausting manual labor. We aren't the same my guy. I live in FUCKING POVERTY and will die without ever reaching the middle class.

And you get that large corporations are corrupt as shit but still have this frankly childish idea that fairness happens somewhere. If the employees have no leverage there is NO fairness.

Yet again I don't have to google shit I've been poor and working class my entire life. Explain to me why the major corporations operating there paying market rate don't seem to be having these issues?

MANY of them are companies I've worked for or had business relationships with here. In Nevada fucking nobody working manual labor is making $12 or $13 an hour. Fucking nobody is importing thousands of third worlders to work below cost.

It's many of the same fuckin companies operating there. Explain to me why for example Chewy can pay a living wage no fucking problem in Nevada or Ohio but these fucking slum lords have to import 3rd world labor?

 

[Jack V Savage]

LOL I'm not "you guys". You keep dodging what I said and making up something else instead. I don't understand why. You've been attributing qualities to me that are completely made up since my first post ITT.

Re: the bold text, you cut out the part of my post where I agreed with you that strengthened protections for workers, especially foreign workers, are very important and a benefit to everyone. You cut out the part of my post that shows huge amounts of jobs left unfulfilled and the economic woes that accompany that circumstance. You ignore all reasoning that contradicts you and respond with emotional attacks.

Guess what? I'm working class, just like you. In fact, I'd bet a nickel you make more than I do and I work six days a week on average. I live in a little house with a modest mortgage. Your accusations about me aren't worth a flying fuck.

This is the thing. The guy isn't listening to reason and thinks that personally attacking everyone who points out issues with his reasoning or factual errors is going to make everyone a Republican. I don't get the point of posting if he doesn’t want to engage with alternative thought.

 

[Andy Capp]

You live in a house while I live in a studio apartment despite the fact that I do extremely exhausting manual labor. We aren't the same my guy. I live in FUCKING POVERTY and will die without ever reaching the middle class.

And you get that large corporations are corrupt as shit but still have this frankly childish idea that fairness happens somewhere. If the employees have no leverage there is NO fairness.

Yet again I don't have to google shit I've been poor and working class my entire life. Explain to me why the major corporations operating there paying market rate don't seem to be having these issues?

MANY of them are companies I've worked for or had business relationships with here. In Nevada fucking nobody working manual labor is making $12 or $13 an hour. Fucking nobody is importing thousands of third worlders to work below cost.

It's many of the same fuckin companies operating there. Explain to me why for example Chewy can pay a living wage no fucking problem in Nevada or Ohio but these fucking slum lords have to import 3rd world labor?

What a fucking stupid thing to argue about. I got lucky in that I married in middle age with no kids so we have two incomes, and even so my wife's boss kicked in to help us with the down payment. We're the very definition of house poor. Even at that we had to move out into a rural area to find something we can afford when we were evicted from our rental in 2021. If our car wasn't fully paid off we'd be really struggling. As it is we're forced to be pretty frugal.

None of the rest of this addresses anything I said. And I didn't ask you to google fuck all. I provided the information. You're just not listening and you haven't been listening to anyone since your first comment ITT. I empathise with your situation. No one is applauding people being underpaid. But there's no denying that a company going out of business because there just aren't enough people to do with work is a bad thing also.

 

[Mike]

What a fucking stupid thing to argue about. I got lucky in that I married in middle age with no kids so we have two incomes, and even so my wife's boss kicked in to help us with the down payment. We're the very definition of house poor. Even at that we had to move out into a rural area to find something we can afford when we were evicted from our rental in 2021. If our car wasn't fully paid off we'd be really struggling. As it is we're forced to be pretty frugal.

None of the rest of this addresses anything I said. And I didn't ask you to google fuck all. I provided the information. You're just not listening and you haven't been listening to anyone since your first comment ITT. I empathise with your situation. No one is applauding people being underpaid. But there's no denying that a company going out of business because there just aren't enough people to do with work is a bad thing also.

So you got fucking lucky to end up in the middle class yet you still don't seem to think things are fucked here for the average person that WASN'T lucky.


Cool. The puzzle pieces are there guy I can't put them together for you.