Crime School shooting in Georgia

How can you not grasp the differences? Anyone can walk into a bank, they are physically much smaller, with one primary large space, the focus of the security is to protect the money because that bad guys are going after, they are not going in there to kill people. The security policy is also to just give them what they want and try to catch them later.
The point is they have limited entry points and sensitive areas are protected. Sure, anyone can walk into a bank, but not just anyone can get into more secure areas. Protecting the sensitive areas of a school should be equal to protecting the sensitive areas of a bank. Protect the kids like banks do the money. Just don't give them what they want and worry about catching them later.
My comment was in response to your statement "I want them to be as protected as banks and every government building in the country" I was only pointing out how that stating EVERY government building vastly oversimplifies the reality to the point your statement becomes meaningless. In fact public schools are protected in a manner exactly like a government building because they are government buildings.
When was the last time you were in a courthouse? Or a major Federal facility in Washington DC? I'm well aware that every government building in the country isn't equipped with the same level of security. Again, the point is to at least make some attempt to have a more secure facility. Heck, I'd be happy with something that tried to be like the TSA but applied to schools. That would at least be a start to trying to secure schools.
The purpose of my comments is not to play semantic games or be insulting at all, although I realize my attempts to lighten my tone with bad humor and stupid pop references often gets in my own way. My intent is to get down to a more meaningful level of discussion that this topic deserves . Nothing about this is easy and everyone wants the same thing, the more we can get down to sharing thoughts on those real world complexities the more chance there will be at progress.
Fair enough.
Those guys that stopped the kid are cops bro, most likely only armed with handguns at the time. They are school resource officers, law enforcement officers with specific training to work in schools. That training is not just combat related but equally or more importantly focused on being an active, positive presence in the school and building positive relationships with the kids. I don't know much about how they stopped him, but it seems like that would be valuable for other law enforcement agencies to understand.
Everyone complains about how it has been determined that cops have no responsibility to protect us . . . and point out the major failures in their responses to school shootings. I'm aware that SROs are cops. But how many of them are dedicated to ONLY school security? And who are they employed by? If they're not school employees that needs to change. Schools should be hiring dedicated security who aren't cops.
 
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To be fair, I’d say mismanagement and administration is probably the issue in 90% of public schools.
Parental involvement can also play a major role in how successful a school might be.
 
Government run systems quite often out-perform private ones.
I find that this is very rarely the case. Especially when it comes to health care. The government is great at setting itself up to fail by implementing ridiculous standards and requirements that often aren't worth the investment because the return is usually negative.
 
Didnt Vance say that school shootings are just a part of life, or something to that effect? Wasnt HE standing behind a bullet proof barrier when he said it?
Here's what the man actually said. The implication that he's saying we just need to accept it and move on is incorrect, but the Harris campaign is pushing exactly that.

 
I’d love examples of those systems or any government agency that promotes and rewards employees for being efficient or programs that are given more money for being under budget.
We're rewarded so greatly that if we try to save money we can't even carry over funding from one fiscal year to the next and future budgets are impacted because "we didn't need that money".
 
Uh, that's literally how every Government program runs. You dont think they ever get promoted or rewarded? You dont think funding is cut or expanded based on performance?

My wife's entire professional life in the public sector is exactly this.
At the federal level, we do get individual performance awards based on our annual evaluations. I can't say that in my 29+ years of federal service that any program I've worked under has ever had funding cut for performance reasons. But that's usually due to the fact that we're only funded at like 80% of our actual need as it is.
 
Great, more authority figures who ain't shit themselves trying to make themselves feel like bigshots at someone else's expense, just what we need.

Personally, the reason I really hate all the paranoia we live in is because i don't like being accosted by strangers when I'm going about my business, the more paranoia and the more rationalization to fuck with people that some of these morons are given, the more I can't relax. Just complicates everything, and all of that shit isn't good for the kid's mental state. If I had kids, i'd flat out not have them in an environment like that. Hell, teachers didn't know how to treat kids when I was a kid, adding more adult assholes to the mix won't help anything.

Sounds like you haven't grown up much. You talk like a whiney entitled little brat.
 
What do we think about charging the parents for negligent homicide?

And how did the kid even get the weapon? Was it not locked or secured? Or his dad let him do whatever he wanted with his Christmas present?
 
How did they release his manifesto so soon-a day after the shooting but it took over a year for the trannie shooter???
 
What guns laws could prevent this?

None. Since it is apparently against the law to murder people (who knew?) then why would anyone expect criminals to obey gun laws?

If you asked me what we could do about school shootings, hardening the targets are the only thing I can come up with. Metal detectors, school cops, etc.

As for street violence, I have a few ideas I have spouted here many times.

They fuckjng need to take felons with firearms much more seriously. That crime alone with no other offenses should net five years. Felons are your biggest offenders when it comes to gang shootings, robberies, and other crimes. There are five purposes of criminal law-deterrence, incapacitation, retribution, rehabilitation, and restitution and restoration. Of those, incapacitation is my favorite. It keeps criminals unable to commit additional crimes. 23% of offenders commit 61% of all crimes. That’s a lot of recidivism (rate at 43%).

On top of that, make gun crimes an enhanceable offense and add several years for any crime if they use a gun. Again, incapacitating the criminal is the goal.

You just got several slides worth of the classes I teach at my university for free.
 
What do we think about charging the parents for negligent homicide?

And how did the kid even get the weapon? Was it not locked or secured? Or his dad let him do whatever he wanted with his Christmas present?

Personally, I am glad. However, I think there needs to be a specific crime associated with this type of offense. Charging the father with four counts of murder is extreme. He is facing 83 years for basically buying his kid a gun. Not a non serious offense, but they are treating him the same as if he pulled the trigger. There are felony murder surges which basically go after an accomplice to a felony crime that results in murder-think of two guys robbing a bank and one shoots a guard, they charge the mom shooter with felony murder as a coconspirator, but I think charges of murder for the father are extreme-same as the other parents they charged and convicted with similar charges in another school shooter.
 
- The kid got abused at home and got bullyed at school. His retarded daddy gave the kid a A.R 15.


Georgia school shooting suspect was troubled by a broken family, taunting at school, his father said​


BY RUSS BYNUM
Updated 11:08 AM BRT, September 7, 2024

It was just the two of them, the teenager and his father, since an eviction a year earlier ended with the boy’s parents parting ways in a separation that fractured the entire family.

That’s what Colin Gray told a Georgia sheriff’s investigator who came to his door in May 2023 asking whether an online threat to commit a school shooting had been posted by his son, Colt.

“I don’t know anything about him saying (expletive) like that,” Gray told Jackson County sheriff’s investigator Daniel Miller, according to a transcript of their interview obtained by The Associated Press. “I’m going to be mad as hell if he did, and then all the guns will go away.”

Now both Colt, 14, and Colin Gray, 54, are charged in the killings of two students and two teachers Wednesday at Apalachee High School in Barrow County, outside Atlanta. Nine others were hurt, seven of them shot. The Grays appeared Friday for the first time in court, where their attorneys declined to immediately seek bail.

The teen is charged with murder, and his father is accused of second-degree murder for providing his son with a semiautomatic, AR 15-style rifle used to kill children. Arrest warrants say the elder Gray did so knowing his son “was a threat to himself and others.”

Jackson County authorities ended their inquiry into Colt Gray a year ago, concluding that there wasn’t clear evidence to link him to a threat posted on Discord, a social media site popular with video gamers. The records from that investigation provide at least a narrow glimpse into a boy who struggled with his parents’ breakup and at the middle school he attended at the time, where his father said others frequently taunted him.

“He gets flustered and under pressure. He doesn’t really think straight,” Colin Gray told the investigator on May 21, 2023, recalling a discussion he’d had with the boy’s principal.

Shooting guns and hunting, he said, were frequent pastimes for father and son. Gray said he was encouraging the boy to be more active outdoors and spend less time playing video games on his Xbox.

When Colt Gray killed a deer months earlier, his father swelled with pride. He showed the investigator a photo on his cellphone, saying: “You see him with blood on his cheeks from shooting his first deer.”

“It was just the greatest day ever,” Colin Gray said.

There’s no mention in the investigator’s report and interview transcript of either Gray owning an assault-style rifle. Asked if his son had access to firearms, the father said yes.

But he said the guns weren’t kept loaded and insisted he had emphasized safety when teaching the boy to shoot.

“He knows the seriousness of weapons and what they can do,” Gray said, “and how to use them and not use them.”

An eviction upended the Grays’ family in summer 2022.

On July 25 of that year, a sheriff’s deputy was dispatched to the rental home on a suburban cul-de-sac where Colin Gray, his wife, Colt and the boy’s two younger siblings lived. A moving crew was piling their belongings in the yard.

The Jackson County deputy said in a report that the movers found guns and hunting bows in a closet in the master bedroom. They turned the weapons and ammunition over to the deputy for safekeeping, rather than leave them outside with the family’s other possessions outside.

The deputy wrote that he left copies of receipt forms for the weapons on the front door so that Gray could pick them up later at the sheriff’s office.

The reason for eviction is not mentioned in the report. Colin Gray told the investigator in 2023 that he had paid his rent.

It was following the eviction, he said, that his wife left him, taking the two younger siblings with her.

Colt Gray “struggled at first with the separation and all,” said the father, who worked a construction job.

“I’m the sole provider, doing high rises downtown,” he told the investigator. Two days later, there was a follow-up interview with Colin Gray while he was at work. He said by phone: “I’m hanging off the top of a building. ... I’ve got a big crane lift going, so it’s kind of noisy up here.”

Middle school had also been rough for Colt Gray. He had just finished the seventh grade when Miller interviewed the father and son.

Colin Gray said the boy had just a few friends and frequently got picked on. Some students “just ridiculed him day after day after day.”

“I don’t want him to fight anybody, but they just keep like pinching him and touching him,” Gray said. “Words are one thing, but you start touching him and that’s a whole different deal. And it’s just escalated to the point where like his finals were last week and that was the last thing on his mind.”

The investigator also interviewed the boy, then 13, who was described in a report as quiet, calm and reserved.

He denied making any threats and said that months earlier he’d stopped using the Discord platform, where the school threat was posted. He later told his father his account had been hacked.

“The only thing I have is TikTok, but I just go on there and watch videos,” the teen said.

A year before they would both end up charged in the high school shooting, Colin Gray insisted to the sheriff’s investigator that his son wasn’t the type to threaten violence.

“He’s not a loner, Officer Miller. Don’t get that,” the father said, adding: “He just wants to go to school, do his own thing and he doesn’t want any trouble.”

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-...alachee-high-92fce6b86f5e2ad23c3337aff1997cab
 
They are obviously different things, which is why there should be different classifications. Terms like “mass shooting” should make such a distinction.

The “agenda” is using “street crime” stats to try and inflate the impact of school shootings and make people think they’re at risk when they’re not.

Most gungrabbers don’t want to make this distinction though, because the will of citizens to give up their 2nd amendment rights wanes significantly once they understand actual stats and risk factors.

I don’t see the need for the distinction because I don’t place more value on kids in rural areas lives over ones in cities.

Whether a kid gets killed by his incel classmate or gang banger classmate, who cares as most of the measures proposed would hopefully address issues that cause both to have access to guns.

Same goes for suicide. It’s clearly a violent death that happens significantly more often in places where gun access is easy but people want to pretend it doesn’t count as a violent death in gun stats. Does suicide suddenly not affect all demographics?
 
I took a UW class, the teacher asked why murders peaked in, think it was the sixties, answer was, more young males, the baby boom. More young males, more violence.

With the numbers we have, it makes sense that some assholes would try to cook up ways to circumvent all that testosterone, but I don't know if there is a way really. Especially in a country like ours. Men are really impossible, just talk to them about anything, they'll act like they have all the right answers and these are just nobodies, that's the male ego in action. When you have millions of those, it's gonna cause problems. Evolution never prepared us to live the way we do, not at all.
- If that's was the case, Wond't there be several roid heads involved in killings?
 
- If that's was the case, Wond't there be several roid heads involved in killings?
I don't know, maybe roid heads would have a different pathology. Usually these killers are disgruntled because they feel left out of one thing or the other, that seems to be the case with all or nearly all of them. Such a silly thing to be pissed off over, but that's it.
 
The point is they have limited entry points and sensitive areas are protected. Sure, anyone can walk into a bank, but not just anyone can get into more secure areas. Protecting the sensitive areas of a school should be equal to protecting the sensitive areas of a bank. Protect the kids like banks do the money. Just don't give them what they want and worry about catching them later.

Come on bro, you can't lock kids behind several feet of concrete and steel in an airtight vault requiring many levels of authentication to unlock.

It would be extremely heartless to actually want kids in schools to be protected like money in banks since banks are willingly to sacrifice all of the money in the bank at any given time before asking anyone to risk their life for it. It is just money and they are insured against those losses so they get it back. I don't think you really want to treat kids or teachers' lives the same way.

I guess if there is one policy that I can relate to the intent of your comparison it would be the very effective procedure of locking down classrooms and securing the doors to prevent shooters from entering. There are reports of that saving lives in this case as well as previous cases.
When was the last time you were in a courthouse? Or a major Federal facility in Washington DC? I'm well aware that every government building in the country isn't equipped with the same level of security. Again, the point is to at least make some attempt to have a more secure facility. Heck, I'd be happy with something that tried to be like the TSA but applied to schools. That would at least be a start to trying to secure schools.

I've been in enough courthouses to see that it is nothing like a school. The nature of a courthouse creates a very high concentration of law enforcement officers in the building that does not happen in schools.
Everyone complains about how it has been determined that cops have no responsibility to protect us . . . and point out the major failures in their responses to school shootings. I'm aware that SROs are cops. But how many of them are dedicated to ONLY school security? And who are they employed by? If they're not school employees that needs to change. Schools should be hiring dedicated security who aren't cops.

Everyone does not complain about that nor has it been determined in any version of reality that cops have no responsibility to protect us All SROs are dedicated to ONLY school security, that is the definition of the job. They are employed by the local PD or Sheriff's office.

From what I remember around the first time I heard the title SRO it was created because of the concerns around putting cops in schools. The biggest issue had to do with the psychological impact of their presence on the kids. The goal of the SRO was to carefully select and train cops to not be the scary guy with a gun in the school, but be very active fostering direct, positive relationships with the students. I know SROs are a thing in the south, but don't know how prevalent they actually are there or the rest of the nation.
 
I don't know, maybe roid heads would have a different pathology. Usually these killers are disgruntled because they feel left out of one thing or the other, that seems to be the case with all or nearly all of them. Such a silly thing to be pissed off over, but that's it.
- We had a psichologist that used to post here on the dog. Maybe @Sano can chime in.

I honestly dont know the answer too. But we have several people with high test in other contries, and they dont go in killing sprees. Let alone with defenseless children. Even football players or rugby players with all the cte.
 
I find that this is very rarely the case. Especially when it comes to health care. The government is great at setting itself up to fail by implementing ridiculous standards and requirements that often aren't worth the investment because the return is usually negative.

When you're playing with someone else's money there's no incentive to be responsible with it.
 
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