Rule changes that could help reduce chain control wrestling?

[Hellowhosthat]

Sure they break it up from time to time. But do you think they should break it up if it's happening as I laid out or do you think they should let it run for the full five?

If they're doing absolutely nothing and just holding them there then I think they should break it up. If they're actively working for a takedown or landing strikes that aren't pitter patter knees to the thigh then I think they should let it go.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Umm no ... The cage can stop takedowns sometimes already, it also help fighter's get up by them wall walking up vs being takendown in the middle of the ring ..the cage doesnt favor only grapplers ...look at what Alex .P did to Izzy in the first fight and what Anderson Silva use to do with the cage.. it can be a weapon to trap your opponent against and tee off on for strikers too ...


Wrestling is part of the game and there is ALWAYS an answer to what your opponent does...thats what makes the sport so great..

Change rules based on current trends almost always backfires

izzy isn't a wrestler and there's absolutely no way Anderson Silva would be able to stop someone like Khabib from taking him down. You are forgetting that Silva and other fighters during his era were able to get away with strategic cage grabs.

We will just have to wait until every champion is a control chain wrestler. We're halfway there. If we get Ankalaev fully embracing this approach and Khamzat is able to win the middleweight belt with that style, will have the 135, 155, 170, 185, and 205 divisions all championed by chain wrestlers. I don't see an answer in sight to this wave of MMA wrestling.

 

[usernamee]

If they're doing absolutely nothing and just holding them there then I think they should break it up. If they're actively working for a takedown or landing strikes that aren't pitter patter knees to the thigh then I think they should let it go.

I hope it doesn't come across as if I'm trying to "get you" or anything I just want to discuss this topic.

Here is where it gets so freaking muddy IMO.

A fighter can easily just do half-assed takedown attempts with no real intentions of actually taking him down, but just to show action. Then go back to knees to thighs and what not. It's too easy to milk vast amounts of time in this position.

 

[kingofthecans]

Maybe they should just become better wrestlers.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Maybe they should just become better wrestlers.

There's one flaw with this and it's that he who presses against the cage first dominates. Even a good wrestler can't counter himself. You think Khabib vs Khabib would end up being a standup fight because he would nullify his own wrestling? no. It would end up with one of them getting the takedown against the cage, and the other unable to stand up. This is because the MMA rules and the cage benefit offensive wrestling and punish wrestlers trapped against the cage.

IF you allowed defensive cage grabs for a downed opponent (on your butt/back only), then Khabib vs Khabib would end up in a striking stalemate. That's why I think that rule change is important.

 

[arathans]

didnt dana get rid of fitch cause he pretty much wrestle fucked everyone except gsp?

this is just to an evolution of the sport. its takes time for fighters to adjust their game and honestly, most likely have to wait for the next generation who have constantly trained to defend against or beat the daggies at the own game.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

This. The only rule change that's needed is to only start counting effective strikes, slams and maybe deep submission attempts and do away with all the top control, cage hugging and securing a late takedown to "steal the round" stuff. Like the judging criteria is already there, it's just not being applied correctly. A straight right that lands flush and snaps the head back should be worth more than a full minute of useless top control.

But thats technically incorrect... because it takes less effort to throw a right hand then it does to secure a takedown and hold/control a grown ass man on the floor for 1 whole minute...

There should be some consideration in the judging for the effort of grappling otherwise why have it in the sport if the only thing your going to judge is what hurt most....it doesnt paint the correct picture of the match.. you could be absolutely rag dolling your opponent but not necessarily doing damage ( some of khmazat's rounds) but because his opponent lands some clean shots its his round?

That doesnt make sense to me ... I will agree more consistent and reliable judging is needed.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

There's one flaw with this and it's that he who presses against the cage first dominates. Even a good wrestler can't counter himself. You think Khabib vs Khabib would end up being a standup fight because he would nullify his own wrestling? no. It would end up with one of them getting the takedown against the cage, and the other unable to stand up. This is because the MMA rules and the cage benefit offensive wrestling and punish wrestlers trapped against the cage.

IF you allowed defensive cage grabs for a downed opponent (on your butt/back only), then Khabib vs Khabib would end up in a striking stalemate. That's why I think that rule change is important.

Nope... Weve seen plenty of grappler vs grappler fights become stand up only scraps as either guy couldn't get the takedown

 

[Alpha_T83]

didnt dana get rid of fitch cause he pretty much wrestle fucked everyone except gsp?

this is just to an evolution of the sport. its takes time for fighters to adjust their game and honestly, most likely have to wait for the next generation who have constantly trained to defend against or beat the daggies at the own game.

Again, I disagree with you for one reason:

I firmly believe Khabib vs Khabib would end up with one of the Khabib's dominating via takedown. Once one of them got a takedown, the other would be completely unable to get up once trapped against the cage. If this is true, it means the MMA rules vastly benefit the offensive wrestler and no amount of defensive wrestling will help.

We will actually see this theory played out in Umar vs Merab. If I'm right, they'll both be going for takedowns against the cage, and we could actually see both of them dominate & control rounds, depending on who is the first to get the takedown against the cage. If I end up being right, then we NEED an MMA rule change to benefit defensive wrestlers trapped against the cage.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I hope it doesn't come across as if I'm trying to "get you" or anything I just want to discuss this topic.

Here is where it gets so freaking muddy IMO.

A fighter can easily just do half-assed takedown attempts with no real intentions of actually taking him down, but just to show action. Then go back to knees to thighs and what not. It's too easy to milk vast amounts of time in this position.

I think the ref should be able to tell what's a real takedown effort and what's just half heartedly grabbing a leg and not doing anything with it.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Nope... Weve seen plenty of grappler vs grappler fights become stand up only scraps as either guy couldn't get the takedown

Which ones? I'd be curious to re-watch them. But I'm talking about top-tier grapplers.

Because I haven't seen high level guys like Khabib, Makhachev, Umar, Merab, Belal, etc. fight each other yet.

I'm actually hella excited for Umar vs Merab, because I suspect they will both dominate that fight at times, depending on who gets the takedown.

 

[liner]

If we are gonna change a rule a big one should be a fighter on his back can upkick a downed fighter in the face

 

[Bork Neslar]

They should just allow fence grabbing.

 

[NoStoneUnturned]

The redistribution of wealth mindset. My opponent is too good at his job and I don't want to work as hard to put myself in a similar skilled position. Nice.

 

[Clark Rogers]

You should check out boxing and kickboxing imo. Sounds up your alley.

 

[usernamee]

I think the ref should be able to tell what's a real takedown effort and what's just half heartedly grabbing a leg and not doing anything with it.

That's way easier said than done. I'm not saying half-assed as in barely even attempting it, but just dialing the effort level down a bit.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

That's way easier said than done. I'm not saying half-assed as in barely even attempting it, but just dialing the effort level down a bit.

I'd file that under the same thing as not being able to tell how hard someone is trying to kick if they're just poking away with leg kicks on the outside. Are they actually trying to hurt the guy or just score points? Is there something that should be done about that?

 

[The Siege]

The cage is being used by the defending fighter as well. Both for leaning back against it to prevent a takedown, using it for leverage, or wall walking up.

Your solutions are ridiculous and some of them are essentially calling for interfering and dictating fights.

I think the rules should be amended to allow defensive cage grabs for downed fighters to get back to their feet.

Great way to have fights end in TKOs and Doctor Stoppages due to broken fingers or wrists.

Either that or takedowns against the octagon should be automatically reset to the center of the octagon in full guard. One of the best ways to stand up from a takedown is to get half guard and then shrimp out to create a scramble. But you can't do that when you're pressed up against the cage.

This is fight interference and is basically manipulating the outcome of the fight. So you are saying that if a grappling sequence against the fence occurs and the defender ends up giving up his back or side control, you reset them in the middle and give him full guard?

Lol. Maybe whenever a fighter is rocked on the feet and backs up to the fence, they pause the action and let him rest and recover so he can defend more intelligently because the fence allows the striker to better corral a hurt fighter which is an unfair advantage.

 

[Conan the K-9]

“Wrestling” and “controlling” your opponent, but not doing any damage with gnp or having any submission attempts or even advancing position, read staying in closed guard or half guard should not win the round. Control time, especially against the cage, is almost always just some bs numbers, not showing the actual truth what’s happening in the fight.

Can’t wait to see some control time home cooking again tomorrow evening.

 

[World eater]

Or, the UFC can just stop signing that type of wrestler. If they compete in ONE, PFL or ACA, they are bums by default. If they are already signed, give them the hardest possible way to a title.
Oh wait, we are already there. The problem is being taken care of as we speak. These sporadic events will be even more uncommon in the future.