Economy Right wing economic theory BTFO again.

[MoparOrNoCar]

Never said inflation won't happen. It always happens. Not a problem, though. I'm going to win the bet I made about it, and I'd be happy to make a bet with you on growth if you genuinely believe the economy is tanking.

You pretended like it was going to continue to inflate at the average it normally does, which is obviously false.

I don't bet but I can easily see you paying $5 at the pump and $30 for a chuck steak, sitting here telling all of us that the economy is great.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You pretended like it was going to continue to inflate at the average it normally does, which is obviously false.

I don't bet but I can easily see you paying $5 at the pump and $30 for a chuck steak, sitting here telling all of us that the economy is great.

No, I said it would be a little above normal. It's been a little more above normal than I thought but tracking to be within the range that I was willing to bet on.

I'm just talking about a sig bet. No need to risk anything you don't want to lose. I think that as a general rule, a good practice when there is a disagreement is to see what different expectations are generated by the different views and then make a bet so the issue can be revisited, and there's some accountability (so people don't just say stuff they know is false--like I don't think you really believe the economy is tanking, but I think you say it to show your solidarity with your party). What kind of GDP shrinkage are you saying you're anticipating?

 

[Jack V Savage]

The lowest compensation per hour as determined by the government. Whats your point?

The theory that MW workers are switching to lower-paying jobs as a result of increases in the MW has a hole. I'll let you figure out what it is.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

The theory that MW workers are switching to lower-paying jobs as a result of increases in the MW has a hole. I'll let you figure out what it is.

Hence why i said low skilled - not MW

The study I posted covers both, MW and Low skilled.

The study shows low skill people who are switching jobs due to automation, down grade to a lower paying job. So i am not clear on how non skilled people who are being phased out are winning.

 

[Last Falconry]

"right wing theory" doesn't even exist anymore outside of a vague notion of something that might make a stranger slightly upset. And when that doesn't work, chanting "USA, USA" until they get too sad to continue

 

[cooks1]

You pretended like it was going to continue to inflate at the average it normally does, which is obviously false.

I don't bet but I can easily see you paying $5 at the pump and $30 for a chuck steak, sitting here telling all of us that the economy is great.

You understand the pump price and the price of oil has almost nothing to do with Biden, Trump, or whomever is in office. It's mostly speculation. The variance between global supply and global demand has not not really changed at all. The only thing that changes is the price due to speculation and who is getting paid for making the energy.

Since 2008, when Obama took over, the gap between US and gas imports vs exports has been shrinking dramatically. And it continued under Trump. Finally in 2019 we actually started exporting more than we were importing. And this will likely continue in the short top mid term.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

You understand the pump price and the price of oil has almost nothing to do with Biden, Trump, or whomever is in office. It's mostly speculation. The variance between global supply and global demand has not not really changed at all. The only thing that changes is the price due to speculation and who is getting paid for making the energy.

Since 2008, when Obama took over, the gap between US and gas imports vs exports has been shrinking dramatically. And it continued under Trump. Finally in 2019 we actually started exporting more than we were importing. And this will likely continue in the short top mid term.

You don't think lockdowns and unemployment have any bearing on prices?

I'm guessing all the ships sitting off the west coast aren't a problem either. Neither is the Federal Reserve kicking the can down the road, making the inevitable bubble even bigger once it bursts.

Printing trillions on top of this all should fix everything as well.

You guys can keep pretending as we slowly ascend into this dumpster fire.

 

[SammyPops]

???

go on .....

 

[Seano]

All a massive minimum wage increase is going to do is make everything costlier, fuck over the people who already make 15 dollars or more per hour and make us a less hospitable environment for innovation and manufacturing.

 

[cooks1]

You don't think lockdowns and unemployment have any bearing on prices?

I'm guessing all the ships sitting off the west coast aren't a problem either. Neither is the Federal Reserve kicking the can down the road, making the inevitable bubble even bigger once it bursts.

Printing trillions on top of this all should fix everything as well.

You guys can keep pretending as we slowly ascend into this dumpster fire.

To the extent they impact supply or demand, lockdowns or unemployment should impact prices. But those impacts pale in comparison to speculation.

And no- the ships off the west coast do not have fuck all to do with gas prices. Few of the ships sitting off the west coast are oil tankers. They are cargo ships. If there was a real disruption to the oil/gas supply chain, believe me, you'd know. Please check out the UK for reference. Here, people would be shooting each other at BP's and Bucc-ee's.

What I am telling you is that all these things are inconsequential on the price of gas and oil compared to speculation.

 

[helltoupee]

All a massive minimum wage increase is going to do is make everything costlier, fuck over the people who already make 15 dollars or more per hour and make us a less hospitable environment for innovation and manufacturing.

Do you have any actual data or studies to base your opinion on though?

Because most people who've studied this type of thing come to a completely different conclusion.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's not about what I think. It's about what the super rich think, when they're being told to pay $15-$20 an hour to people in one country, to do the same job they can pay people a bowl of rice a day to do in another country. Are they gonna just do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

They can't exactly pay a Vietnamese peasant a bowl of rice a day to serve you a burger in LA. A huge chunk of our jobs are service jobs that can't be outsourced because they require the employees physical presence in the US.

Am I reading this right? An experiment done in New Jersey in the 80s tells us how a federal min wage hike will affect rural America 40 years later?

Its a natural experiment which is to say that they studied the impact of minimum wage before and after it was instituted. These researchers basically pioneered that kind of study in economics, hence them getting the Nobel Prize. Sounds like an obvious thing to do but before economists didn't really engage in much empirical work and just argued their theories in the abstract mostly. Hence why we got bad ideas ideas like trickle down economics and the supposed negative effects of minimum wage. It was only after more empirical research was being carried out in economics that some of these myths were dispelled.

Of course its not the only study on the matter but if you disagree perhaps point to empirical evidence that suggests otherwise rather than assuming MW hikes are bad as an article of faith which is what a lot of folks against MW do.

 

[chrisdiaz]

That didn't address what I said. What I said is that the minimum wage worker should not be expected to take a lower salary just because the IT worker has decided to do so.

Now I'm reading a completely different argument from the previous post. The first post said that a minimum wage worker should not make as much as an entry level IT worker. Now, the argument says a minimum wage worker should not be able to afford a mortgage and a car. Neither of those arguments are about if the minimum wage salary is appropriate or not.

The first argument judges the minimum wage salary by increases or declines in some unrelated field. If that was valid, we should peg the minimum wage to some percentage of IT workers.

The second argument states what minimum wage workers should not be able to buy. That's an empty argument (see - minimum wage workers should not be able to have a private jet or a gold pinkie ring) - there is no explanation for why. The proper argument is "What should they able to afford?"

In fact, "What should they be able to afford?" is the specific question that is rarely answered concretely.

A minimum wage worker shouldnt consider their job a salary which is the first issue. Salaries imply benefits 401ks and possibly forceable non paid overtime. My argument is unskilled workers shouldnt be paid nearly the same as an educated skilled position. Raising the minimum wage to close to almost a skilled trade wage is unrealistic. You also expect these same corporations will take this into account and raise the skilled trade wage and its not going to happen. Talk about trickle down economics.

 

[adam199]

Because they generally don’t like the government taking their tax money and screwing up the spending over and over and wanting more money from people.

Right, but you can't advocate for lower taxes and deregulation, then turn around and complain about ultra-billionaires existing and doing whatever they want.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Now you're just projecting.

Now you're just throwing out words because you've been called on your bullshit

 

[adam199]

Lol, it's my goal in life to be taken seriously by a guy called "no fat chicks" on a karate forum making threads screeching about capitalism. You're a walking caricature.

Be honest, you don't take him seriously because you secretly love fatties.

 

[RogerB08]

Now you're just throwing out words because you've been called on your bullshit

Keep trying

 

[HeffDoesWant]

Poor confirmed.

What is your understanding of the Republican economic policy?

Broad stokes of course.

no such thing as Nobel prize for Economics.

Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Hence why i said low skilled - not MW

The study I posted covers both, MW and Low skilled.

We've been using the terms synonymously. Are you saying that the study shows that non-MW workers are losing their jobs with a MW hike?

go on .....

Really not getting your theory of inflation. What difference would the incomes of workers or consumers make?

All a massive minimum wage increase is going to do is make everything costlier, fuck over the people who already make 15 dollars or more per hour and make us a less hospitable environment for innovation and manufacturing.

You brought up a massive MW increase. That's nothing to do with anything in the thread.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

We've been using the terms synonymously. Are you saying that the study shows that non-MW workers are losing their jobs with a MW hike?

No, I have made a point to separate them (low skilled vs mw) and the study shows that mw employees end up jobless or to another me job AND low skilled workers tend to end up in a lower paying job. Which makes sense because most MW workers are only MW for a few months to less than a year before a marginal raise is implemented. But yes the study brings up both.

This all goes back to you saying autiomation leads to a win win - - trying to assess how you view it as a win for low skill or mw workers